sage Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 14 hours ago, DJAY said: What is the benefit of rail seats over what is being installed here? I personally can't see any benefit of one over the other, but there must be otherwise other clubs introducing safe standing would have done the same? Is there some UEFA guidelines that the rail seats pass that clubs in European competition must adhere to or something? You can get more rail seats in the same area Enough extra to mean if we install them, we have to build an extra exit or widen exits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, sage said: You can get more rail seats in the same area Enough extra to mean if we install them, we have to build an extra exit or widen exits. How so? I take it the rail seats are narrower then? 🤷♂️ I didn't realise that. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 38 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: How so? I take it the rail seats are narrower then? 🤷♂️ I didn't realise that. 👍 Yes it's like a bench seat If I remember rightly you can add 15% to the capacity of an area. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Poor design of the barrier. It should be square sectioned, so you've got somewhere to rest your pint. Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistaston Ram Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: I'm assuming that away tickets will be sold as either standing upper tier or sitting lower tier. If you buy a standing ticket then at least you'll expect to have to stand before you go. oh good we can continue to chant 'how s**t you must be you be, you sit down away' to the poor unfortunates in the lower tier. Edited December 2, 2023 by Wistaston Ram uttoxram75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 10 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: A definite improvement. Its very difficult to balance on the thin top edge of the plastic seats. They buckle and sway and you inevitably have to grab the person in front to stop you falling into the next row, I'm sure he'll be thankful. If i fall off the rail, i'll miss him completely and land two rows down. Be no need to go down to the concourse at 3.30pm now for you, what with you already being stood next to a bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 There appears to be some confusion (Or is it just me?) with terms such as "Safe standing", "Rail seats", "Rail standing" etc. In August this year, The Dail Fail referred to "Safe Standing" in their article headline, but then used the term "Rail seats" in the article itself. Within that article, when referring to "Rail Seats" they name Liverpool as one of the trialling clubs. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12416803/Safe-standing-return-Premier-League-flights-opening-weekend-not-keen-new-stadium-changes.html Liverpool themselves refer specifically to "a railed seat and not a safe standing area". They continue... "Anfield will remain an all-seater stadium and the trialled areas with the new seats and safety rails are not ‘safe standing’ areas. We want fans to sit safely. Rail seating creates a barrier to protect supporters in those areas flagged as areas of concern by the SGSA." They then appear to ignore all that... and the respective laws(?)... by adding "Anfield is still an all-seater stadium and the rail above the seat is to protect fans and make areas where there is persistent standing safer." (One assumes the term "persistent standing" refers to "Law/Rule breaking standing"? https://faq.liverpoolfc.com/portal/en/kb/articles/tkt-railed-seating-trial-at-anfield#:~:text=Q%3A What is railed seating,there is persistent standing safer. That suggest to me that a blind eye is being turned? I hasten to add, I have in the past aimed a similar accusation at DCFC, but it appears they are now heading towards a licenced "SAFE STANDING AREA". That's fantastic news imo, as it effectively gives us all "A choice" (Limited numbers permitting, of course)... They get a standing ovation from me, on this move. 👏 "Once the independent barriers are in place, the club will be able to apply for and be granted a Safe Standing Licence and club officials have been in close dialogue with the Sports Ground Safety Authority for some time to ensure the necessary steps have been taken meet the required criteria." https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/12/work-starts-at-pride-park-stadium-to-introduce-safe-standing Interestingly, the new Everton stadium is apparently being future-proofed to allow a ratio of 1:1.5 or even 1:2 (Seats:Standing) as and when future revised laws come in (In the UK/England). I believe Dortmund have a 1:2 ratio in place already, at least in some sections. It appears this is one standing in front of the other within the same seat width, NOT a narrower space per person (shoulder to shoulder). (There's obviously a need for seat pitches to be of a certain depth to allow this, as well as the concrete step being within the guidelines). The 1:1.5 ratio refers to a triangle of standing fans. Be that 2 behind one, or one behind two, but all on two steps (per seat), and within the existing seat width. I'm gonna take a wild guess (Rightly or wrongly) and assume this wouldn't be possible at PPS, as it currently stands (or sits! LOL!) I assume the ratio will remain as 1:1, but I need to check out the step formation and take a tape measure with me next game (For the seat pitch), so for now, I stand to be corrected on that score! 😉 Interesting times... and well done to DCFC, and DC himself I assume, for making this giant leap. I hope the young 'uns have half as much fun as I did, when I was able and allowed to stand for the whole game, without any concern for a high-viz tap on the shoulder! *You'll never experience the buzz of the sway though! They'll never take those memories away! Ossie Enders, Ossie Enders, la la la la la la... 🐏 cstand and Kathcairns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 43 minutes ago, David said: Be no need to go down to the concourse at 3.30pm now for you, what with you already being stood next to a bar Groan! cstand, Day and uttoxram75 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: There appears to be some confusion (Or is it just me?) with terms such as "Safe standing", "Rail seats", "Rail standing" etc. In August this year, The Dail Fail referred to "Safe Standing" in their article headline, but then used the term "Rail seats" in the article itself. Within that article, when referring to "Rail Seats" they name Liverpool as one of the trialling clubs. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12416803/Safe-standing-return-Premier-League-flights-opening-weekend-not-keen-new-stadium-changes.html Liverpool themselves refer specifically to "a railed seat and not a safe standing area". They continue... "Anfield will remain an all-seater stadium and the trialled areas with the new seats and safety rails are not ‘safe standing’ areas. We want fans to sit safely. Rail seating creates a barrier to protect supporters in those areas flagged as areas of concern by the SGSA." They then appear to ignore all that... and the respective laws(?)... by adding "Anfield is still an all-seater stadium and the rail above the seat is to protect fans and make areas where there is persistent standing safer." (One assumes the term "persistent standing" refers to "Law/Rule breaking standing"? https://faq.liverpoolfc.com/portal/en/kb/articles/tkt-railed-seating-trial-at-anfield#:~:text=Q%3A What is railed seating,there is persistent standing safer. That suggest to me that a blind eye is being turned? I hasten to add, I have in the past aimed a similar accusation at DCFC, but it appears they are now heading towards a licenced "SAFE STANDING AREA". That's fantastic news imo, as it effectively gives us all "A choice" (Limited numbers permitting, of course)... They get a standing ovation from me, on this move. 👏 "Once the independent barriers are in place, the club will be able to apply for and be granted a Safe Standing Licence and club officials have been in close dialogue with the Sports Ground Safety Authority for some time to ensure the necessary steps have been taken meet the required criteria." https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/12/work-starts-at-pride-park-stadium-to-introduce-safe-standing Interestingly, the new Everton stadium is apparently being future-proofed to allow a ratio of 1:1.5 or even 1:2 (Seats:Standing) as and when future revised laws come in (In the UK/England). I believe Dortmund have a 1:2 ratio in place already, at least in some sections. It appears this is one standing in front of the other within the same seat width, NOT a narrower space per person (shoulder to shoulder). (There's obviously a need for seat pitches to be of a certain depth to allow this, as well as the concrete step being within the guidelines). The 1:1.5 ratio refers to a triangle of standing fans. Be that 2 behind one, or one behind two, but all on two steps (per seat), and within the existing seat width. I'm gonna take a wild guess (Rightly or wrongly) and assume this wouldn't be possible at PPS, as it currently stands (or sits! LOL!) I assume the ratio will remain as 1:1, but I need to check out the step formation and take a tape measure with me next game (For the seat pitch), so for now, I stand to be corrected on that score! 😉 Interesting times... and well done to DCFC, and DC himself I assume, for making this giant leap. I hope the young 'uns have half as much fun as I did, when I was able and allowed to stand for the whole game, without any concern for a high-viz tap on the shoulder! *You'll never experience the buzz of the sway though! They'll never take those memories away! Ossie Enders, Ossie Enders, la la la la la la... 🐏 Anfield is licensed for safe standing so not sure why they're saying that. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 34 minutes ago, alexxxxx said: Anfield is licensed for safe standing so not sure why they're saying that. Are they now? The SCG met with Liverpool before our game last year and they told us that although the rails were all in place, that the licence hadn't yet been granted so technically they were still a seated stadium. That was a whole season ago, though, so it could have come through since. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Thrust Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 14 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Im a mere 60 but seem to spend 20 or so mins on loo breaks....... Well at least with standing areas, you can easily relieve yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 1 hour ago, alexxxxx said: Anfield is licensed for safe standing so not sure why they're saying that. 1 hour ago, angieram said: Are they now? The SCG met with Liverpool before our game last year and they told us that although the rails were all in place, that the licence hadn't yet been granted so technically they were still a seated stadium. That was a whole season ago, though, so it could have come through since. August 16th 2023* (*The 46th anniversary of Elvis' death, and the 27th anniversary of my marriage to the current Mrs Mucker! 👩❤️👨) "Liverpool FC has been granted a Safe Standing Licence for the 2023-24 season following an application to the Sports Ground Safety Authority (SGSA) earlier this year." https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/lfc-awarded-safe-standing-licence-new-season Either they need to update their FAQs on this topic, or I inadvertently quoted from old links earlier. Either way, apologies for posting misinformation and/or outdated information. angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: The 1:1.5 ratio refers to a triangle of standing fans. Be that 2 behind one, or one behind two, but all on two steps (per seat), and within the existing seat width. This has happened on odd occasions in our row in the SS. Irs easily doable to have 3 standing in a 2 seat area. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: Interesting times... and well done to DCFC, and DC himself I assume, for making this giant leap. I hope the young 'uns have half as much fun as I did, when I was able and allowed to stand for the whole game, without any concern for a high-viz tap on the shoulder! *You'll never experience the buzz of the sway though! They'll never take those memories away! Ossie Enders, Ossie Enders, la la la la la la... Looking for your mates after a goal celebration was always a thing, we never ended up in exactly the same spot! Mucker1884 and Kathcairns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: This has happened on odd occasions in our row in the SS. Irs easily doable to have 3 standing in a 2 seat area. Actually, That's made me realise I'd misworded my initial post. It is indeed 3 folk in a 2 seat width, not a 1 seat width (which would result in a 1:3 ratio!). Tvvat me! 🙄 However, in response to your post, I'd say there's a stark difference between "Easily doable" and "Satisfies the meticulously planned and measured requirements of the 37 page specifications and outline authoritorial* documentation of the H&S executive Bod at Hi-Viz Towers". 👀 *I know... but it looks good! 😉 uttoxram75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 22 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: There appears to be some confusion (Or is it just me?) with terms such as "Safe standing", "Rail seats", "Rail standing" etc. In August this year, The Dail Fail referred to "Safe Standing" in their article headline, but then used the term "Rail seats" in the article itself. Within that article, when referring to "Rail Seats" they name Liverpool as one of the trialling clubs. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12416803/Safe-standing-return-Premier-League-flights-opening-weekend-not-keen-new-stadium-changes.html Liverpool themselves refer specifically to "a railed seat and not a safe standing area". They continue... "Anfield will remain an all-seater stadium and the trialled areas with the new seats and safety rails are not ‘safe standing’ areas. We want fans to sit safely. Rail seating creates a barrier to protect supporters in those areas flagged as areas of concern by the SGSA." They then appear to ignore all that... and the respective laws(?)... by adding "Anfield is still an all-seater stadium and the rail above the seat is to protect fans and make areas where there is persistent standing safer." (One assumes the term "persistent standing" refers to "Law/Rule breaking standing"? https://faq.liverpoolfc.com/portal/en/kb/articles/tkt-railed-seating-trial-at-anfield#:~:text=Q%3A What is railed seating,there is persistent standing safer. That suggest to me that a blind eye is being turned? I hasten to add, I have in the past aimed a similar accusation at DCFC, but it appears they are now heading towards a licenced "SAFE STANDING AREA". That's fantastic news imo, as it effectively gives us all "A choice" (Limited numbers permitting, of course)... They get a standing ovation from me, on this move. 👏 "Once the independent barriers are in place, the club will be able to apply for and be granted a Safe Standing Licence and club officials have been in close dialogue with the Sports Ground Safety Authority for some time to ensure the necessary steps have been taken meet the required criteria." https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/12/work-starts-at-pride-park-stadium-to-introduce-safe-standing Interestingly, the new Everton stadium is apparently being future-proofed to allow a ratio of 1:1.5 or even 1:2 (Seats:Standing) as and when future revised laws come in (In the UK/England). I believe Dortmund have a 1:2 ratio in place already, at least in some sections. It appears this is one standing in front of the other within the same seat width, NOT a narrower space per person (shoulder to shoulder). (There's obviously a need for seat pitches to be of a certain depth to allow this, as well as the concrete step being within the guidelines). The 1:1.5 ratio refers to a triangle of standing fans. Be that 2 behind one, or one behind two, but all on two steps (per seat), and within the existing seat width. I'm gonna take a wild guess (Rightly or wrongly) and assume this wouldn't be possible at PPS, as it currently stands (or sits! LOL!) I assume the ratio will remain as 1:1, but I need to check out the step formation and take a tape measure with me next game (For the seat pitch), so for now, I stand to be corrected on that score! 😉 Interesting times... and well done to DCFC, and DC himself I assume, for making this giant leap. I hope the young 'uns have half as much fun as I did, when I was able and allowed to stand for the whole game, without any concern for a high-viz tap on the shoulder! *You'll never experience the buzz of the sway though! They'll never take those memories away! Ossie Enders, Ossie Enders, la la la la la la... 🐏 The only real safety problem with safe standing is when there us unsafe policing, a la Hillsborough, which is why we ended up with enforced all-seater stadiums in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Sit darn, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 hour ago, DavesaRam said: The only real safety problem with safe standing is when there us unsafe policing, a la Hillsborough, which is why we ended up with enforced all-seater stadiums in the first place. And massively unsafe stadium design, ie one central tunnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Very big positive from me. I don't mind people having a laugh with "limbs" in the back of the south stand however it's much safer having the rails there, rather than a huge weight of people all falling over and hurting someone. This system just works. For folks like myself who have been standing for years now, this is a positive step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Looking forward to this as it will hopefully save me from sore shins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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