Pro Warne

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I think the recent atmosphere at away games has been toxic. There are a group of belligerent fans who come into the ground tanked up and looking for a fight from the off -  with the players, the manager, the more positive Derby fans. 

This is a huge change to the former almost unconditional support away fans were giving the players during administration and beyond.

We've somehow got to combat this. They aren't the majority (far from it) but they are bullies.

I don't expect unwavering adulation, but the atmosphere becomes an almost self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes everyone nervous and every little mistake is magnified, which leads to more nervousness, more mistakes etc. 

Our next away game is at Port Vale, where the atmosphere was brilliant last season and we kept backing the team to the end. Look what happened there! 

The players clearly have belief in what they are doing. Look how they came back at Crewe when most had given up hope. If we can remember that and get behind them a bit more, it could make all the difference. 

I've seen the post match footage from the Bournemouth Newcastle game with Trippier vs the fans at the end of the game.

Great publicity has been given to this after the away defeat.

Cast your minds back to the end of match debate with a player from our club after an away loss with our fans. 

It's not just our club but it seems that there's an unpleasant emerging pattern here.

I hope that these are two one offs and that fans can express their frustrations albeit created from unrealistic expectations in a constructive manner.

This is a few weeks after Newcastle beat PSG in the Champions League for God's sake. 

[Rich84]

38 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

I don't care where they are in the league mate, I look at their squad and quality of play and we should not be losing to those sides if we play even to 75% of our potential. We had a run of performances that were frankly dire, hopeless football which ended up with Hourihane falling out with the fans and just saying "we're playing to orders". This isn't evidence in Warne's favour is it?

Look he might get a run going and i'll give him some credit if he finally gets some better team selections going. But I caveat that with the fact to me it looks like the players have had stern words among themselves rather than Warne did something magic that made them switch on and give their all for 90 mins.

Like you say with the subs I think Warne puts himself in bad positions because he never seems to know his best 11 (although he's getting more consistent now), spends too much time concerned about opponents in a low quality league. Recruitment is a big one for me in a weak L1 season if we had just invested a little we'd surely be cruising this league. The players we talked about in the summer are having great seasons as well e.g Rodrigues at Oxford.

On the poor decisions by players, do you not feel like this is more a coaching/cohesion issue? Many times you wonder when watching Warne's side what the actual plan is. I was at Crewe and we were all behind goal second half wondering who in the hell all the crosses were for as Washington could play 24 hours and still never win a header. This season just feels like a fumble to me, we should be relishing the challenge, should have just spent a million on a few good playuers and prospects. Another year down here will have negative impacts on the club in all areas IMO.

And there in lies the issue with a proportion of deluded Derby fans....

Less than 18 months from going under, working to a tight business plan to demonstrate we won't make the same mistakes, so let's just spend a million to strengthen the team..........

Give your head a wobble

[bcnram]

6 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

And there in lies the issue with a proportion of deluded Derby fans....

Less than 18 months from going under, working to a tight business plan to demonstrate we won't make the same mistakes, so let's just spend a million to strengthen the team..........

Give your head a wobble

The money was spent, but on wages for short-term free transfers. I am no fan of Warne and delighted that he has seemingly abandoned his tedious tactics, and realised that passing to each other on the grass is the way to success.

[tomsdubs]

1 hour ago, Rich84 said:

And there in lies the issue with a proportion of deluded Derby fans....

Less than 18 months from going under, working to a tight business plan to demonstrate we won't make the same mistakes, so let's just spend a million to strengthen the team..........

Give your head a wobble

Don't need to give anything a wobble, just cause we were in danger 18 months doesnt change the reality of what is infront of us or should it lower what we can achieve as a club. Find that notion honestly stupid. Shame you had to become condescending. 1m would not break the bank and would be well within our spending plan if we had dealed appropriately. Every signing a club make is a gamble and it is all managed risk. We didn't manage risk under Mel and paid for it. But We didn't even need to spend that much in my eyes, happy to look at L2 for some prospects. How much was Alfie May now top scorer in League One?

I'm glad you can put everyone in a box as wrong though, must be amazing being you.

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Don't need to give anything a wobble, just cause we were in danger 18 months doesnt change the reality of what is infront of us or should it lower what we can achieve as a club. Find that notion honestly stupid. Shame you had to become condescending. 1m would not break the bank and would be well within our spending plan if we had dealed appropriately. Every signing a club make is a gamble and it is all managed risk. We didn't manage risk under Mel and paid for it. But We didn't even need to spend that much in my eyes, happy to look at L2 for some prospects. How much was Alfie May now top scorer in League One?

I'm glad you can put everyone in a box as wrong though, must be amazing being you.

Respect your opinions and not trying to wade into and argument or inflame matters, but your comment about 1 million quid wouldn't break the bank or fit into our business plan did interest me.

I would have inferred by our unwillingness not to spend this sum of money then it wouldn't have fit into our business plan and or Clowes wasn't willing or couldn't underwrite this - what makes you think otherwise?

 

 

[S8TY]

13 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Don't need to give anything a wobble, just cause we were in danger 18 months doesnt change the reality of what is infront of us or should it lower what we can achieve as a club. Find that notion honestly stupid. Shame you had to become condescending. 1m would not break the bank and would be well within our spending plan if we had dealed appropriately. Every signing a club make is a gamble and it is all managed risk. We didn't manage risk under Mel and paid for it. But We didn't even need to spend that much in my eyes, happy to look at L2 for some prospects. How much was Alfie May now top scorer in League One?

I'm glad you can put everyone in a box as wrong though, must be amazing being you.

i do think Jan could be pivotal for us, don't have to break the bank and spend a fortune as you've said, but if JJ still looks like he's going to be injured I'd send him back and get another striker on loan with pace and spend a few bob on a striker on a permanent but not Clarke harris as some have suggested , he's been poor this season and on the bench now so lets look at L2 players like maybe the Crewe lad Baker-Richardson or Al Hamidi as GOC suggested 

[Crewton]

8 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

just cause we were in danger 18 months doesnt change the reality of what is infront of us or should it lower what we can achieve as a club.

Sure, but it does impact on the speed at which we can reach our potential, particularly when you take into account the restrictions imposed by the EFL that we were required to accept in order to be released from the stringent sanctions that applied during Administration. Some fans don't seem to have grasped that "speculating to accumulate" isn't either feasible of sensible for DCFC at this time. There's a discussion on another thread about what Alfie May was looking for as personal terms and that would have taken us back down the road of the Mel Morris years. Last season we still had a restriction on the length of contract we could offer, which was a big turn-off for younger players looking for 3-4 years of security, which is why we were generally shopping in the veteran's market. This inevitably meant wages at the upper limit of what the EFL allowed. Over time, I expect the age profile of the squad to reduce (it already has), and the signings of Wilson, Fornah and Weston should be a sign of things to come.

I'm not surprised at the impatience of some fans for an early reversal of our fortunes, but I don't think it's either helpful or realistic.  

[tomsdubs]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Respect your opinions and not trying to wade into and argument or inflame matters, but your comment about 1 million quid wouldn't break the bank or fit into our business plan did interest me.

I would have inferred by our unwillingness not to spend this sum of money then it wouldn't have fit into our business plan and or Clowes wasn't willing or couldn't underwrite this - what makes you think otherwise?

 

 

From the forum the club held Warne seemed to say he had some money to spend but didn't think anyone was worth it? Obviously we don't know who his actual targets were but we need to make a move at some point if we want to progress.

[tomsdubs]

13 minutes ago, S8TY said:

i do think Jan could be pivotal for us, don't have to break the bank and spend a fortune as you've said, but if JJ still looks like he's going to be injured I'd send him back and get another striker on loan with pace and spend a few bob on a striker on a permanent but not Clarke harris as some have suggested , he's been poor this season and on the bench now so lets look at L2 players like maybe the Crewe lad Baker-Richardson or Al Hamidi as GOC suggested 

We are 8 points away from top 2 currently with arguably the strongest squad in league, if we never take a small calculated gamble now then you start to question the ambition. Crowds will drop and so will revenue if we don't escape IMO. We don't have to risk the club at all to do so, just a small bit of investment to give the squad a lift for the second half of the season. We've seen other clubs do it succcesfully  so many times while we've watched on over the years.

Edited November 12, 2023 by tomsdubs

[tomsdubs]

6 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Sure, but it does impact on the speed at which we can reach our potential, particularly when you take into account the restrictions imposed by the EFL that we were required to accept in order to be released from the stringent sanctions that applied during Administration. Some fans don't seem to have grasped that "speculating to accumulate" isn't either feasible of sensible for DCFC at this time. There's a discussion on another thread about what Alfie May was looking for as personal terms and that would have taken us back down the road of the Mel Morris years. Last season we still had a restriction on the length of contract we could offer, which was a big turn-off for younger players looking for 3-4 years of security, which is why we were generally shopping in the veteran's market. This inevitably meant wages at the upper limit of what the EFL allowed. Over time, I expect the age profile of the squad to reduce (it already has), and the signings of Wilson, Fornah and Weston should be a sign of things to come.

I'm not surprised at the impatience of some fans for an early reversal of our fortunes, but I don't think it's either helpful or realistic.  

That's reasonable but looking at our squad we've had a number of lads brought in aren't really performing or constantly injured. Elder injured all the time, JJ injured permanently, Ward always injured it seems. Waghorn looked inspired initially but now struggling. Embleton got totally crocked which was a shame because I rated him. Bradley gets beaten everytime a team hoofs and up and under ball and loses his head at away game home fans.

We need to add in Jan upfront, if Mendez-Laing is out for a while I reckon we'll dip in form as we are massively reliant on him. Is our cautious approach causing us to spend more in the long term?

I'm not impatient for us to be a top Champ side any time soon but I think we should maximise what is in front of us, this league is poor.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, bcnram said:

The money was spent, but on wages for short-term free transfers. I am no fan of Warne and delighted that he has seemingly abandoned his tedious tactics, and realised that passing to each other on the grass is the way to success.

But, has has been mentioned before, if we’d spent a million on “a few good players” (I’m not sure how many such players we would have got for a million) we would have to have spent the money spice - firstly in transfer fees and then again in wages. I’m sure most players that meet that criteria would have demanded a decent pay packet.

[Rammy03]

3 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

Warne literally said in the interview there were all having a go at each other and he just let them sort it out.

That's normal

[bcnram]

27 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But, has has been mentioned before, if we’d spent a million on “a few good players” (I’m not sure how many such players we would have got for a million) we would have to have spent the money spice - firstly in transfer fees and then again in wages. I’m sure most players that meet that criteria would have demanded a decent pay packet.

I suspect that you are right. Maybe they will have a special ‘Black Friday’ window in the future. 50% off and low wages for 3 months. 

[tomsdubs]

14 minutes ago, bcnram said:

I suspect that you are right. Maybe they will have a special ‘Black Friday’ window in the future. 50% off and low wages for 3 months. 

We're paying Embleton's wages for the whole season and we dont even own his contract, just putting it out there. Bad luck on our part but that is the risk signing loans on full wage. All dead money now.

[Comrade 86]

14 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

We're paying Embleton's wages for the whole season and we dont even own his contract

We're not though, are we? Where have you read that?

[Caerphilly Ram]

29 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

We're paying Embleton's wages for the whole season and we dont even own his contract, just putting it out there. Bad luck on our part but that is the risk signing loans on full wage. All dead money now.

 

13 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

We're not though, are we? Where have you read that?

The truth appears to be somewhere in the middle, paying our wage contribution until Jan according to radio Derby;

 

[sage]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

 

The truth appears to be somewhere in the middle, paying our wage contribution until Jan according to radio Derby;

 

Without wishing to sound pedantic, that isn't somewhere in the middle. Someone was wrong, that was pointed out, you've explained why they were wrong.   

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

 

The truth appears to be somewhere in the middle, paying our wage contribution until Jan according to radio Derby;

That's a long mighty walk from what's his face's claim that, 'we're paying Embleton's wages for the whole season' is the point I was making. 

[Jram]

I think what is happening is exactly what some sensible forum members have been saying for weeks- injury crisis over and we’ve started to get some luck and take chances and now, shock horror, we’re winning games 

I don’t doubt we’ll go on another bad run at some point this season which is why Warne says he never gets too up or down after a win/defeat 

[TINMANTED]

1 hour ago, tomsdubs said:

We're paying Embleton's wages for the whole season and we dont even own his contract, just putting it out there. Bad luck on our part but that is the risk signing loans on full wage. All dead money now.

plus the arsenal sick note,both were massive gambles,much sooer have taken a gamble on one fit proven striker