Is expectation too high .

[Foreveram]

4 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

I reckon there are some posters on here who could nip home on their lunch break, catch their other half and the next door neighbour fully naked and bent over the chaise longues, admire the performance for a minute or two and then when they get back to work and tell their colleagues that the drinks are on them down the pub later, and that the OH won't mind, because they'll be quids in having spent the afternoon searching for loose change down the back of the sofa with the friendly man next door who's allergic to clothes.

From experience?

[May Contain Nuts]

1 minute ago, Foreveram said:

From experience?

Aye.

The merest hint of cotton and polyester and I break out in hives!

[alram]

13 hours ago, DRBee said:

Just because it produce numbers with complicated maths doesn't mean it has any value. I believe it misrepresents a game- for example  a moment of brilliance from a goal scorer is undervalued by xg. shots , on and off target is more useful, and in the end the final score is what counts.

I never said it did have any value

 

people use shots on target and possession I don’t know why people get so defensive when xg is brought up

 

al that matters is the final score but xg is a good tool that helps you gauge how you are doing in games

[alram]

11 hours ago, trappatoni said:

It's a useful stat.  If your xG exceeds the opponent's on a regular basis then you should be winning more than you lose and if you don't your finishing is poor.   Unlike Curtains I'd say if you have the higher xG then finishing and GKing being equal you should be winning the game - obviously finishing and GKing isn't fixed - Kane can miss sitters and I've scored a few worldies.   

 

I believe (feel free to correct me)  it is only measured for shots on goal though (on or off target) so if you are 6 yards out and square it that wouldn't produce any xG.

Exactly I don’t know why so many are so offended by it’s use

 

nobody is suggesting it’s a replacement for goals but it’s the best statistic that takes into account quality of chances. if you create naff all every game it tells you something is wrong

 

the xg tables aren’t ever far from the actual points tally’s because it evens itself out

Edited September 7, 2023 by alram

[Archied]

Looking at league table over and over again thinking if this hadn’t happened or that had or if we do this next game ect is one of my compulsions and for a team we all thought would really struggle for goals and had kind of sorted the defence we are 3 rd top scorers but giving away stupid individual error goals , cut out those and the stupid refereeing decisions and we may be right up there just now 🤷🏻‍♂️

for all the Bolton stats I reckon with a decent ref and 11 men we at the very least take a point at Bolton and actually fancy a smash and grab win

[Wolfie]

9 hours ago, alram said:

I never said it did have any value

 

people use shots on target and possession I don’t know why people get so defensive when xg is brought up

 

al that matters is the final score but xg is a good tool that helps you gauge how you are doing in games

Because (for me at least) if you're watching the game, you could have a pretty good estimate of the numbers for posession and especially shots. xg?. No chance & for that reason, it doesn't feel real.

[MadAmster]

20 hours ago, SSD said:

I don't think the expectations are too high at all. The bookies and supporters saw us finish just outside the play offs with a bundled together squad and you would have thought with the investment made behind the scenes in recruitment and having a manager with plenty of league one promotions, we would definitely be challenging. 

What I am really surprised at is we've brought in Mark Thomas who recruited upcoming talent to Oxford, yet our management team have decided to target older, more experienced players on higher wages. Now I'm wondering whether this is purely down to the restrictions in place by the EFL that we're still unable to target younger players in lower leagues and fees are out of the question entirely. It's these contradictions behind the scenes which does give me cause for concern. I don't get the impression Warne particularly wants to use youth unless it is an absolute last resort. The best teams always have a nice blend of youth, prime and experienced footballers. I do fear we have too many experienced players causing a lacking energy on the pitch and why we do seem to struggle against teams who will happily pass the ball around our players.

I am under the impression the resources are there for the manager to have a very successful season, resulting in high expectations. With a dross style of football and a stubborn attitude to change his ways to adapt to the players strengths currently on the field, ultimately that will be his downfall. The best managers utilise every ounce of quality from their squads. I think we've got a very competitive squad on paper vs the rest of the league. I don't think we'll see the best out of it under Warne sadly.

Maybe the "younger" players have been brought in to be molded into 1st team players later this season or next? The 2 ex Rangers lads for starters...

[ap04]

16 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Three statisticians go hunting and spot a stag

Number 1 fires and misses three feet to the right

Number 2 fires and misses three feet to the left

Number 3 shouts 'we got him' 

The equivalent would be, the guy who missed 5 times by a foot is almost certainly a better hunter -and you'd back him next time- than the guy who got a hit but missed the rest by metres (or got few other sightings).

[Walkley Ram]

54 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Maybe the "younger" players have been brought in to be molded into 1st team players later this season or next? The 2 ex Rangers lads for starters...

Did he sign in the end? Completely passed me by if he did. He looks a decent prospect.

[DavesaRam]

18 hours ago, Curtains said:

Well obviously things haven’t worked out just yet this season and Paul Warne isn’t happy with some of our play. 
 

He now has to decide on his best team with of course taking injuries into  account.

Im looking forward to Pompey game to see what Warne does after a break. 
 
Ed Dawes said after Fleetwood well that was better but Warne said what because we won and intimated it wasn’t that good. 
Thompson played well but is struggling with his calves .

We have new players who are still adapting to what Warne wants  

Warne knows what he has to do and he will be judged like any manager on results 

He will indeed, and it will take time. But the accusations that he us one-dimensional will keep happening if he keeps reverting to 3 at the back when it has clearly not worked, or playing a wing back formation when we don’t actually have wing backs, or depending on fitness and running, but signing players who are getting too old for that. The lack of players who can play to Warne’s requirements nay be because of budgetary restraints, but might also be because the type of player we need for this don’t actually want to come and play in this sort of system? And finally, Rooney excepted because his injury was a freak accident, is the high number of injuries the result of the “flat out till you gas out” maxim such that players are pushing themselves too hard in training, or are being pushed too hard?

Only time will tell, but these issues have been lurking around for months, and nothing seems to be changing.

I would love to see a return to the heady days of Clough, Mackay, Cox and Smith, but I am 66 and heading rapidly towards 67, and wonder if it will ever happen in my lifetime?

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Wolfie said:

Because (for me at least) if you're watching the game, you could have a pretty good estimate of the numbers for posession and especially shots. xg?. No chance & for that reason, it doesn't feel real.

I’m with you on that but for me my biggest bug bear is trying to use it as a reliable prediction tool , yes it can be an indicator but an indicator at best , things change so fast in football, players click and un click in the blink of an eye , we see this regularly from half to half let alone game to game , they are interesting but people put far to much store in them

[Archied]

40 minutes ago, ap04 said:

The equivalent would be, the guy who missed 5 times by a foot is almost certainly a better hunter -and you'd back him next time- than the guy who got a hit but missed the rest by metres (or got few other sightings).

Well I know which one I would be sending out to get dinner if I was starving to death ,,, you know one is capable of getting it spot on or getting lucky once in a while , the others might never bag dinner while they have a hole in they’re backsides which brings us nicely to warne , we know he’s very capable of promotion from this division , he’s done it 3 times already in a very short time🤷🏻‍♂️

[Archied]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

He will indeed, and it will take time. But the accusations that he us one-dimensional will keep happening if he keeps reverting to 3 at the back when it has clearly not worked, or playing a wing back formation when we don’t actually have wing backs, or depending on fitness and running, but signing players who are getting too old for that. The lack of players who can play to Warne’s requirements nay be because of budgetary restraints, but might also be because the type of player we need for this don’t actually want to come and play in this sort of system? And finally, Rooney excepted because his injury was a freak accident, is the high number of injuries the result of the “flat out till you gas out” maxim such that players are pushing themselves too hard in training, or are being pushed too hard?

Only time will tell, but these issues have been lurking around for months, and nothing seems to be changing.

I would love to see a return to the heady days of Clough, Mackay, Cox and Smith, but I am 66 and heading rapidly towards 67, and wonder if it will ever happen in my lifetime?

As you say ,only time will tell , my personal view looking at our squad is if we went 433 and got it firing we would batter the league as we have so much depth and talent in that formation but I’m only a fan ,I’ve never managed or coached and my living doesn’t depend on being right about it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[May Contain Nuts]

All rather irrelevant, we don't even play Mansfield this season!

Edited September 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Red_Dawn]

Fair one lads, you should just be happy you got a team to support. That was the common sentiment right?

Be grateful.. 

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

Fair one lads, you should just be happy you got a team to support. That was the common sentiment right?

Be grateful.. 

That was the sentiment 12 months ago but we can't continue to have no/low expectations for the rest of our lives just because "we still have a club to support". Same with (as has been voiced by several people) DC. We will always be grateful to him for stepping up in our darkest hour but that doesn't make him immune from fair and reasonable criticism for the rest of his tenure.

[duncanjwitham]

9 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

That was the sentiment 12 months ago but we can't continue to have no/low expectations for the rest of our lives just because "we still have a club to support". Same with (as has been voiced by several people) DC. We will always be grateful to him for stepping up in our darkest hour but that doesn't make him immune from fair and reasonable criticism for the rest of his tenure.

At the very least we should expect to see progress and improvement from last season.

[May Contain Nuts]

38 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

At the very least we should expect to see progress and improvement from last season.

(paraphrasing) 'There are no guarantees that we'll be better next season' - Paul Warne on Radio Derby prior to the Sheff Weds game.

As usual I'll point out that he's 100% correct. There are no guarantees and there's nothing wrong with expectation management.

I just wasn't expecting a loser's mentality from a proven winner!

Edited September 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[BramcoteRam84]

2 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

He will indeed, and it will take time. But the accusations that he us one-dimensional will keep happening if he keeps reverting to 3 at the back when it has clearly not worked, or playing a wing back formation when we don’t actually have wing backs, or depending on fitness and running, but signing players who are getting too old for that. The lack of players who can play to Warne’s requirements nay be because of budgetary restraints, but might also be because the type of player we need for this don’t actually want to come and play in this sort of system? And finally, Rooney excepted because his injury was a freak accident, is the high number of injuries the result of the “flat out till you gas out” maxim such that players are pushing themselves too hard in training, or are being pushed too hard?

Only time will tell, but these issues have been lurking around for months, and nothing seems to be changing.

I would love to see a return to the heady days of Clough, Mackay, Cox and Smith, but I am 66 and heading rapidly towards 67, and wonder if it will ever happen in my lifetime?

On the injuries - Bird also a freak accident making a tackle in the 93rd minute, ward tearing his heel, that also happened in a game following a challenge, Wilson muscle injury probably to do with him coming off long lay off at previous club and getting up to match fitness. So not sure it’s down to the flat out until you gas out. 

[alram]

4 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Because (for me at least) if you're watching the game, you could have a pretty good estimate of the numbers for posession and especially shots. xg?. No chance & for that reason, it doesn't feel real.

then you dont understand it properly. the more chances you create that could result in a goal, the higher your xg will be. its not rocket science