The Paul Warne Poll

[S8TY]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Basically, none of that has anything to do with what I posted 🤷‍♂️.

Rooney and Rosenior built a squad to play football out from the back.  A fair chunk of whom were given 2 year contracts.  (And to be clear, I have no problem with any of that, they did a decent job.)

We then appointed Warne, 10 games later, who didn't want to play out from the back, he wanted the polar opposite.  So we had the whole of last season being told we couldn't judge Warne because he needed his own players in.

This season, we've still got the likes of Hourihane, Smith, NML, Barkhuizen, maybe even Collins, who either do not fit the fit/mobile type of player that Warne wants, or play in positions that don't exist in his preferred system.  That's arguably 5 of our 6 biggest signings from the previous summer (McGoldrick being the 6th), and I reckon maybe a quarter of our total wage budget (purely based on 5/~20 senior players).  I don't see Warne really being able to consistently get the sort of team he wants on the field until most of those players are gone, which realistically means waiting until their contracts expire.

None of that is a criticism or Warne (or Rosenior), it's just that as soon as we did a massive shift in playing style immediately after a complete rebuild, the instability was baked in for the next 2 years.  Sticking with Warne isn't going to make the problem of playing gas-out football with at least one of Hourihane/Smith in midfield, and NML stuck somewhere he can't play, disappear.

If Warne had doubts about whether Hourihane could do what he wants I very much doubt he'd be captain

Nothing wrong with upping our fitness levels and do think having Thommo in midfield and soon Fornah will help Hourihane be more effective but I think he'll still have to help with closing down/pressing etc 

[i-Ram]

6 minutes ago, S8TY said:

If Warne had doubts about whether Hourihane could do what he wants I very much doubt he'd be captain.

Warne had no say in who the captain would be; he abdicated responsibility to a popular vote.

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Warne had no say in who the captain would be; he abdicated responsibility to a popular vote.

Well, when has that ever gone wrong!

[Guest]

Well at least one of the players sees something good in Warne's managerial qualities. I think from what he says he might personally rank him above Mark Robins. There's a touch of irony I think that Warne was the manager on the receiving end of Waggy's last hat-trick in 2019:

Derby County striker Martyn Waghorn has put his scoring run down to his renewed confidence under boss Paul Warne.

Waghorn scored his first hat-trick in more than four years as the Rams won 4-2 at Peterboroughon Saturday.

The 33-year-old has scored in three straight matches and has five goals in as many games since re-joining Derby.

"The third goal I was in the right position, it fell to me quite nicely and you've just got to trust yourself," he told BBC Radio Derby.

"Maybe me last year or the year before wouldn't have taken that on my right foot, but the way the manager has got confidence going in me again and self-belief, it's massive for myself and scoring goals can only promote that."

Waghorn scored two goals in 26 appearances for Coventry and Huddersfield last season, and just one in 29 matches in 2021-22 after joining the Sky Blues from Derby.

Saturday's treble was the former Leicester, Rangers and Ipswich forward's fifth career hat-trick and his first since hitting three for Derby in a 6-1 rout of Rotherham in March 2019.

"I'm very fortunate - five is a nice number to have," he added.

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Brammie Steve said:

Guide to the expert insulters:-

"I'm not calling you a liar but......"

"With respect.........."

"Far be it from me to imply that you are stupid but......"

"I must congratulate you on the asinine nature of your opinion!"

"Not wishing to state the blindingly obvious but......"

The liberal use of "But" or "However" can prove a very useful weapon in the expert insulter's toolbox. Used effectively it can leave the recipient feeling that they have been complimented. Only on reflection does the insult hit home.

 

NB. Overuse of insults often destroy what could otherwise be a fruitful exchange of opinions maling many of the post too unpleasant to be taken seriously!

 

 

I really liked that post, but you smell.

[SSD]

Definitely has the feel of the League One Neil Warnock. Great when he's in a specific division however he has not proved so far he can keep a club in the Championship. Granted, Rotherham's budget made it difficult to compete but I don't think his brand of football helps either. 

I have no issues playing counter attacking football, with the right personnel it looks great to watch. I think this season could be a very similar outlook to last season if we're not careful, relying on one man for all the magic. The majority of the managers in the last 10 years, baring Rowett, have played a very similar style of football which looks easy on the eye. Personally, it's been difficult to watch us play percentage football when it still doesn't suit most of the squad. Bringing in the two lads from Forest and Arsenal is a big boost. They've definitely got more energy to get around the pitch. I really rate Tyrese Fornah because he looks a much better box to box midfielder for this division than anyone else we have. At Reading I thought he looked decent. Smith is a tidy footballer but when you've made Hourihane the captain, a similar player, I can't see him linking as well. Hopefully Warne has this in his mind.

I'd give him the full season, regardless of my opinion on the way we play football. This league changes like the wind anyway. You can end up winning 4-5 matches from 6 and out of nowhere you're in the playoffs. Warne knows the score anyway, if he doesn't get us promoted he'll be out of the door. Unless we're really struggling in midtable after Christma, he won't be going anywhere. I'm sick of managers being sacked left, right and centre. Give him the season to prove himself.

[Archied]

44 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

You literally said the players were hopefully good enough to avoid relegation.  How else is anybody supposed to take that? 

I'm basically the one defending Warne here.  I'm lining up all the mitigations as to why we under-performed a bit last season, and early doors this one, and you're denying them.  There's no way IMO that Warne wants to be lining up 4231 with Smith and Hourihane (or Bird last season) in midfield together, and the fact we're having to do that to get results means we're clearly not getting "full Warne-ball" (if you know what I mean).  We might get closer with Fornah in there (I haven't seen him play yet, so no comments either way from me on that one).

What was meant by that was that we could get enough good players in to avoid relegation no matter how we were forced to line up and how we went about playing given the mess we were in financially and the timescale of getting enough in to even fulfill our fixtures and make no mistake I believe rosenior/ Rooney and clowes did a fantastic job of that as evidenced by the fact we were just outside the playoffs ( let alone avoiding relegation) under rosenior before he was let go and warne at season end ,including a spell under warne where we were right in the top 6 with some wondering if a run at autos was not beyond the question and that was with the different style and set ups of both managers,

im not arguing the case of warne v rosenior just totally disagreeing your build / rebuild point regards the switch which if you go back and read your original post you were making,

im sure we are both derby fans and both want the best for derby , I don’t think I know better than you ,I just disagree with one of the points you made🤷🏻‍♂️

[jimtastic56]

At the start of the season the Bookies had us at 5-1 favourites to win this very poor League One . We are now 3.5-1 and just Even money to get promoted . The Bookies must think Warne is doing something right.

[Loughborough Ram]

13 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

At the start of the season the Bookies had us at 5-1 favourites to win this very poor League One . We are now 3.5-1 and just Even money to get promoted . The Bookies must think Warne is doing something right.

He clearly is.

Despite all of the wrist slashing negativity on here we've made a solid start to the season. There's room for improvement of course, but most level headed people can see that there's a lot to be positive about.

[Ram-Alf]

On 26/08/2023 at 22:36, Allen said:

Nice to see Waggy giving credit to Paul Warne for having confidence in him. Just maybe Warney’s not quite the incompetent oaf some people on this forum would have us believe.

Is this the PW who thought "Waggy" was some sort of big shot as this is what he thought, Lets be honest here, MW came here as part of Forsyth's team to play Stoke, PW asked him if he would like to train with DCFC at Moor Farm, PW sees a different MW and gives him a years contract, Mainly due to the fact strikers were hard to find, After a couple of cameo appearances he looks to be 1st choice when the team sheet is put up.

You need some luck in life   and PW was given a bucket load.

As for PW he's got this season and then if he fails to get promotion the owner DC will have a decision to make, As for MW I'm pleased he got a years contract and now I'd add another year to it...this division is tailor made for him  

[May Contain Nuts]

22 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

He clearly is.

Despite all of the wrist slashing negativity on here we've made a solid start to the season. There's room for improvement of course, but most level headed people can see that there's a lot to be positive about.

Sure.

And 'most level headed people' can see that the positives have come about largely because the manager's been forced through injuries to adopt a different system to the one he thinks we should be using, with the goals mainly coming from a player who, under normal circumstances, he'd have dismissed the idea of signing and the inclusion of a young midfielder he was reluctant to give minutes to.

How much credit one chooses to give to Warne for realising something wasn't working and adapting to make said changes varies by case.

[Blondest Goat]

40 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

At the start of the season the Bookies had us at 5-1 favourites to win this very poor League One . We are now 3.5-1 and just Even money to get promoted . The Bookies must think Warne is doing something right.

You can see the bookies profit margin written into those prices.   I don't believe there's anything like a 50% chance of us getting promoted based on what I've seen.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Sure.

And 'most level headed people' can see that the positives have come about largely because the manager's been forced through injuries to adopt a different system to the one he thinks we should be using, with the goals mainly coming from a player who, under normal circumstances, he'd have dismissed the idea of signing and the inclusion of a young midfielder he was reluctant to give minutes to.

How much credit one chooses to give to Warne for realising something wasn't working and adapting to make said changes varies by case.

Very balanced and a real pick-me-up. Thanks for the time you put into that. Perhaps Warne should invite you to do the team talk on Saturday.

[Archied]

31 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Sure.

And 'most level headed people' can see that the positives have come about largely because the manager's been forced through injuries to adopt a different system to the one he thinks we should be using, with the goals mainly coming from a player who, under normal circumstances, he'd have dismissed the idea of signing and the inclusion of a young midfielder he was reluctant to give minutes to.

How much credit one chooses to give to Warne for realising something wasn't working and adapting to make said changes varies by case.

To be fair he seemed to be very impressed with Thompson during pre season and gave him plenty of minutes during pre season games , not sure he would have done that had he not thought he could well play a decent part this season🤷🏻‍♂️

[FlyBritishMidland]

4 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Well at least one of the players sees something good in Warne's managerial qualities. I think from what he says he might personally rank him above Mark Robins. There's a touch of irony I think that Warne was the manager on the receiving end of Waggy's last hat-trick in 2019:

Derby County striker Martyn Waghorn has put his scoring run down to his renewed confidence under boss Paul Warne.

Waghorn scored his first hat-trick in more than four years as the Rams won 4-2 at Peterboroughon Saturday.

The 33-year-old has scored in three straight matches and has five goals in as many games since re-joining Derby.

"The third goal I was in the right position, it fell to me quite nicely and you've just got to trust yourself," he told BBC Radio Derby.

"Maybe me last year or the year before wouldn't have taken that on my right foot, but the way the manager has got confidence going in me again and self-belief, it's massive for myself and scoring goals can only promote that."

Waghorn scored two goals in 26 appearances for Coventry and Huddersfield last season, and just one in 29 matches in 2021-22 after joining the Sky Blues from Derby.

Saturday's treble was the former Leicester, Rangers and Ipswich forward's fifth career hat-trick and his first since hitting three for Derby in a 6-1 rout of Rotherham in March 2019.

"I'm very fortunate - five is a nice number to have," he added.

 

I think this is being missed.  In the last couple of weeks we’ve had lists of posts and even threads dedicated to what Warne’s has said, how he’s said said it, what he meant by it, how players would take it, etc.  Every press conference has been analysed to death after a defeat or the scrappy win over Fleetwood.  Ultimately, it’s the view of those at Moor Farm and in the dressing room that count.  It seems Waggy is a fan and Warne is giving players confidence.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

To be fair he seemed to be very impressed with Thompson during pre season and gave him plenty of minutes during pre season games , not sure he would have done that had he not thought he could well play a decent part this season🤷🏻‍♂️

In the absence of a fit Callum Elder and with the role asking a bit too much of Forsyth, yes. (Plus needing Forsyth to cover at CB). That's not to say he definitely wouldn't have got minutes in pre-season otherwise, but it's not that likely is it?

Especially when you consider that once the real games started it was Forsyth who played there in the league, Elder in the cup.

If we'd have started the last couple of games with the system we started the season with, do you think Thompson would have started at LWB?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

In the absence of a fit Callum Elder and with the role asking a bit too much of Forsyth, yes. (Plus needing Forsyth to cover at CB). That's not to say he definitely wouldn't have got minutes in pre-season otherwise, but it's not that likely is it?

Especially when you consider that once the real games started it was Forsyth who played there in the league, Elder in the cup.

Not sure I fully agree with you , he really did get a lot of minutes and a lot of praise ,it’s my belief he was taking a good look at Thompson and I reckon he would have been given plenty of chance this season to impress even if he was not going to be a first choice starter in the first few games but the truth is niether of us know for sure what warne s thoughts on him were / are 

seem to remember Trevor Francis transfer record breaker not being auto pick for clough ie clough making that point to him , let’s see how Thompson progresses this season and make a decision if warne has / is managing him well , personally think their is a player in there and I’m hoping warne thinks the same 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited August 29, 2023 by Archied

[May Contain Nuts]

37 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think this is being missed.  In the last couple of weeks we’ve had lists of posts and even threads dedicated to what Warne’s has said, how he’s said said it, what he meant by it, how players would take it, etc.  Every press conference has been analysed to death after a defeat or the scrappy win over Fleetwood.  Ultimately, it’s the view of those at Moor Farm and in the dressing room that count.  It seems Waggy is a fan and Warne is giving players confidence.

This is definitely a positive, but ultimately its giving plaudits for something which should be de rigeur for any football manager.

The bar some people have set for their expectations of Warne are, IMO, below what it should be. Others will argue the opposite.

[ariotofmyown]

51 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think this is being missed.  In the last couple of weeks we’ve had lists of posts and even threads dedicated to what Warne’s has said, how he’s said said it, what he meant by it, how players would take it, etc.  Every press conference has been analysed to death after a defeat or the scrappy win over Fleetwood.  Ultimately, it’s the view of those at Moor Farm and in the dressing room that count.  It seems Waggy is a fan and Warne is giving players confidence.

There have probably been more posts about what he has said then what the team have actually done. I guess it's slightly better than presenting opinions about transfers, budgets etc as facts, but not much better.

[May Contain Nuts]

24 minutes ago, Archied said:

Not sure I fully agree with you , he really did get a lot of minutes and a lot of praise ,it’s my belief he was taking a good look at Thompson and I reckon he would have been given plenty of chance this season to impress even if he was not going to be a first choice starter in the first few games but the truth is niether of us know for sure what warne s thoughts on him were / are 

That's fair enough. We can't know for sure, that's inarguable. It's one of those things you can say about pretty much any discussion we may have on the forum though - we're not on the coaching team so we don't really know what Warne is asking the players to do. We're not in the meetings with the Chairman so we don't know what specific targets the manager has been set, etc

It doesn't mean that we can't look at what evidence we do have to hand, and I think 51 games in charge there's plenty there to form some pretty solid opinions and even draw one or two conclusions.

There were a fair few (from memory, not claiming fact) who seemed happy enough to conclude that 12 games under Rosenior was enough to know that he wasn't the person to take us forward, after all.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kokosnuss