Ram-Alf Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Exactly - if they make it a pleasant experience then they make more money! People are leaving the platforms because they are sick of how toxic the content has become Then those same people who move to a platform where their beliefs are more in line with that platform we then have a divided community, Left and right. Freedom of speech has then died and you can only speak if your ideas match theirs, Ideology then becomes inbreed in some to take action against those who disagree. maxjam, cstand and Norman 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Incidentally I note in the article you link that "Other groups which have said their accounts have recently been shut down by PayPal include Left Lockdown Sceptics, which describes itself as a “socialist collective” opposed to government lockdown measures." Awkward! Why is that awkward? The overwhelming victims of censorship are on the right of the political spectrum and the degree of tolerance between what the two factions are allowed to say is significant. That doesn't mean that some on the left don't suffer the same consequences. Its just another indicator that we should all be taking the issue of free speech more seriously and asking Govts to regulate our online space. At the very least Big Tech should provide rules and guidelines as to what is acceptable and what isn't. Most people Including Toby Young recently are never told what guidelines that have fallen foul off as he states in the video below (relevant bit at 2:12 - 3:05) Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said: Then those same people who move to a platform where their beliefs are more in line with that platform we then have a divided community, Left and right. Freedom of speech has then died and you can only speak if your ideas match theirs, Ideology then becomes inbreed in some to take action against those who disagree. I don't follow your logic? I genuinely think the only way out of this toxic mess is to divert everyone who wants to engage in boring left vs right culture war arguments to a platform that exists solely for that purpose. Leave the rest of us to just be normal and get on with our lives without everything becoming a political argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, maxjam said: Why is that awkward? The overwhelming victims of censorship are on the right of the political spectrum and the degree of tolerance between what the two factions are allowed to say is significant. That doesn't mean that some on the left don't suffer the same consequences. It's awkward because you're insistent that its some sort of left/right divide and the big tech companies are shutting down right wing views because it's a left wing conspiracy Although your back tracking is welcome ? 6 minutes ago, maxjam said: The overwhelming victims of censorship are on the right of the political spectrum Have you ever wondered why that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I'm all for letting Toby Young say as much as he likes - it just exposes what an absolute wazzock he is. Ramarena and Stive Pesley 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: It's awkward because you're insistent that its some sort of left/right divide and the big tech companies are shutting down right wing views because it's a left wing conspiracy Although your back tracking is welcome ? Why is it back tracking? There are extremes on both sides of the political spectrum, the difference is what is considered extreme isn't applied equally to both sides. 7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Have you ever wondered why that is? Yes, it concerns me greatly. A few Silicon Valley based companies impose their innate bias on the rest of the world, down ranking or removing content they don't like. They routinely buy up or use their financial might and infrastructure to silence anyone that threatens their dominance, which has lead to a further consolidation of ideologies. Life is cyclical and unregulated corporations can run amok. Whilst you think you may be on the right side of history at the moment, things don't tend to stay the same forever. America, like a lot of the world is facing a financial crisis and people may seek alternatives to liberal, left Governments, at which point those that have the power to enforce change and censorship might not align to your ideas of fairness. You to should perhaps be demanding increased regulation whilst the conditions are favourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Toby Young and his Free Speech Union have been so cancelled that he is in the Spectator writing about it. The start of the article is all about how he has been cancelled in the past, the poor guy. Probably a desperate PR stunt to get "cancelled" on purpose so the rich elites behind Free Speech Union can appear everywhere moaning about been cancelled. It could be a coincidence, but it also means the right wing media (plus Daily Mail) can get all whipped up instead of focusing on what the government are currently up too? "Did you see this Maureen, they are uncapping banker's bonuses and cutting taxes for the richest? Who on earth voted for this?" "Forget that Brian, Toby Young and some rich mates can't use Paypal or something. Apparently, the Nazis at Paypal say we all have to turn into transexuals. My Grandad didn't die at the Somme for this blah blah..." Yep you are correct we are sidetracked into missing a lot of important stuff with the hey look over there tactic that should have been rumbled by the masses years ago , that said there is a problem starting to show it’s head above the parapet with this PayPal issue in terms of us heading to a world where our finanances can be controlled, cut off and messed with at the drop of a hat if we differ from what we are supposed to , do, think, say if companies rise to an almost monopoly of things we need to live normally they must be regulated from banning people on grounds of , opinion, politics, race, sexual orientation and a multitude of reasons Edited September 22, 2022 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I know most won't care or are not interested, but companies like PayPal and all the other tech businesses are partly owned and controlled by a very small number of very rich people. While we waste our time falling out amongst ourselves, the real enemy controls both sides of the political divide to keep us at each others throats. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/04/bill-sardi/who-runs-the-world-blackrock-and-vanguard/ sheeponacid and Alph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 On the subject of PayPal, if anyone's not boycotting it as a result of all this, there is a donate tab at the top of the forum. One day Big Tech and PayPal will likely come for David and DCFCFans, but that day has not yet come. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 57 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: On the subject of PayPal, if anyone's not boycotting it as a result of all this, there is a donate tab at the top of the forum. One day Big Tech and PayPal will likely come for David and DCFCFans, but that day has not yet come. Why all the anti-capitalist hate vs Paypal and Big Tech? Are we saying that private companies should be regulated? We are after growth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Why all the anti-capitalist hate vs Paypal and Big Tech? Are we saying that private companies should be regulated? We are after growth! What's the point of growth if it only benefits the owners? We're at a key moment in the future, because artificial intelligence and automation could transform everything. If all the technology is in the hands of a very few, they'll just get richer while the rest of Humanity returns to a time of subsistence wages. But if the technology is decentralized and owned by everyone, then we all benefit and get to participate in a much better future. The original Internet was a tremendous invention and game changer because it is decentralized by design. There is a sense in which no one owns it, but there is also a sense that everyone owns it. The problem is we never expected inefficient centralized businesses to be built on top of it, with their walled gardens instead of being open to all. But that is what has happened. It's why in my first post about PayPal I think I talked about cryptocurrency, as the people's money which we can all own equally and which banks and governments can't devalue to our detriment by printing more for themselves. Norman and maxjam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 23 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: What's the point of growth if it only benefits the owners? Why do we have to look at everything through the lense of redistribution! Our rich overlords will get even richer, and this will obviously benefit everyone! Anyway, back on topic, what if the people set up their own paypal alternative, it becomes massive, then the people decide not to let extremists use it? It will be the will of the people, and we know the people are always correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 6 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Why do we have to look at everything through the lense of redistribution! Our rich overlords will get even richer, and this will obviously benefit everyone! Anyway, back on topic, what if the people set up their own paypal alternative, it becomes massive, then the people decide not to let extremists use it? It will be the will of the people, and we know the people are always correct. Maybe your right , maybe we are all just ducked and a level of control and then some over the ordinary folk not seen since the days of the feudal lords is inevitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 16 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: I know most won't care or are not interested, but companies like PayPal and all the other tech businesses are partly owned and controlled by a very small number of very rich people. While we waste our time falling out amongst ourselves, the real enemy controls both sides of the political divide to keep us at each others throats. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/04/bill-sardi/who-runs-the-world-blackrock-and-vanguard/ Well that's utterly depressing to read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Alpha said: Well that's utterly depressing to read! I'm depressed by how badly written it is. Neither was I surprised to see it descend into vague rambling about "the great reset" at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: I'm depressed by how badly written it is. Neither was I surprised to see it descend into vague rambling about "the great reset" at the end. Yeah its not the best but its the first I found. Its always best to find it yourself anyway if you are genuinely interested in who owns what and who controls what. There's a good video out there somewhere that fully explains the power of the big investment funds, Blackrock and Vanguard, and how, ultimately, they own each other! maxjam and Carl Sagan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) On 22/09/2022 at 22:45, Carl Sagan said: On the subject of PayPal, if anyone's not boycotting it as a result of all this, there is a donate tab at the top of the forum. One day Big Tech and PayPal will likely come for David and DCFCFans, but that day has not yet come. Sharon Davies put on Twitter closed her Paypal account might tweet her my solidarity in the hope of a message back ? Edited September 23, 2022 by cstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 10 hours ago, cstand said: Sharon Davies put on Twitter closed her Paypal account might tweet her my solidarity in the hope of a message back ? Is Sharon Davies a right winger? Does she still work for the BBC? If so she could end up getting cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 36 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Is Sharon Davies a right winger? Does she still work for the BBC? If so she could end up getting cancelled. She's a campaigner for women's rights in sports, preserving women-only competitions. Extremists would therefore label her "far right" or "fascist" as they do anyone who disagrees with them. Speaking about her views risks her being cancelled by many services and organizations, quite possibly including PayPal and the BBC. Archied, Crewton and Norman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said: She's a campaigner for women's rights in sports, preserving women-only competitions. Extremists would therefore label her "far right" or "fascist" as they do anyone who disagrees with them. Speaking about her views risks her being cancelled by many services and organizations, quite possibly including PayPal and the BBC. Oh like J K Rowling then? Carl Sagan, Jubbs and Comrade 86 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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