Fan behaviour rules

[Tamworthram]

15 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

I don’t like blanket bans as a matter of principle - there’s a difference between a lardy plonker running on the pitch against Birmingham giving the away fans the benefit of his ability to count to two and pitch invasions after we won a play off semifinal. And different crimes should receive different penalties. Mind, the chances of the old bill actually prosecuting 10,000 fans on the pitch (or even 1000) is probably pretty remote.

Having said that pitch invasions should be discouraged and so too pyros, though I’d love to know how they successfully (and safely) smuggle the latter past security - Gibson’s lot away being a particularly extreme example of the genre. The security company deserve banning never mind the perpetrators.

What if a playoff semi final win was against a team who’s fans might have reacted differently - Leeds, Birmingham, Forest or Millwall. Would the punishment be different than a pitch invasion after a game against the likes of Brighton or Southampton? The benefit of a blanket ban is that it can (and should be) applied consistently without someone having to make a judgement call as to the level of risk of inciting the opposition fans or injuring one of their players. I’m with @Mucker1884 on this one and don’t really see the need to run on the pitch to celebrate an important victory.

Even though actually implementing the punishment would be somewhat difficult (to say the least) in the event of a pitch invasion, the message should be the same.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Tamworthram

[jono]

9 hours ago, ramit said:

i am not saying it wouldn't work on some level, i just don't agree with such tactics.  To socially exclude someone for life as a message to others is unethical IMO.  Hardened authoritarianism appears to have many supporters, be careful what you wish for though.

Oh I agree, a lifetime ban for a moment of drunken stupidity has parallels with transportation for nicking a loaf of bread, but if you invade the pitch and you flipping know you shouldn’t then 6 months or a maybe seasons ban is proportionate and balanced. There has to be a deterrent. It isn’t authoritarian to to say behave yourself or face consequences. It’s called living in the real world, being grown up and .. da da responsible. 

[ramit]

8 hours ago, jono said:

Oh I agree, a lifetime ban for a moment of drunken stupidity has parallels with transportation for nicking a loaf of bread, but if you invade the pitch and you flipping know you shouldn’t then 6 months or a maybe seasons ban is proportionate and balanced. There has to be a deterrent. It isn’t authoritarian to to say behave yourself or face consequences. It’s called living in the real world, being grown up and .. da da responsible. 

My reference to authoritarianism was aimed at lifetime banning, so reminding me of the "real world" while telling me to grow up wasn't very accurate and wasn't very nice.

[Kathcairns]

9 hours ago, ramit said:

i don't pretend to have all the answers of how to best improve fan behavior, a problem with deeper roots in societal structure, but i know what i don't like.

A personal monkey cage for each fan would solve many problems with fan behavior, except perhaps spitting and poo chucking.

The worst period of attending matches, were when the fences were up. We dont want to go back to them again, so any banning measures are ok with me.  Fans who want to run onto the pitch will have to think twice before doing it. Everybody is responsible for their own behavior at the end of the day.

[jono]

9 minutes ago, ramit said:

My reference to authoritarianism was aimed at lifetime banning, so reminding me of the "real world" while telling me to grow up wasn't very accurate and wasn't very nice.

It’s a conversation. I am sorry your ego is so brittle. I wasn’t referring to you .. I was discussing a point you raised. Throwing a hat in the ring, chewing the cud. I think you need to chill out a bit and perhaps re read what I said. 
 

[ramit]

7 hours ago, jono said:

It’s a conversation. I am sorry your ego is so brittle. I wasn’t referring to you .. I was discussing a point you raised. Throwing a hat in the ring, chewing the cud. I think you need to chill out a bit and perhaps re read what I said. 
 

You were not discussing a point i made Jono, you were equating my use of the word authoritarianism for lifetime banning with general milder consequences for ill behavior and it was inaccurate of you to do that, ill behavior even and it had consequences which you seemingly dislike and so you slap a label of ego fragility on me so as to state something to somehow stand your wobbly ground and then conclude by giving me life advice.  Lovely.

[jono]

8 minutes ago, ramit said:

You were not discussing a point i made Jono, you were equating my use of the word authoritarianism for lifetime banning with general milder consequences for ill behavior and it was inaccurate of you to do that, ill behavior even and it had consequences which you seemingly dislike and so you slap a label of ego fragility on me so as to state something to somehow stand your wobbly ground and then conclude by giving me life advice.  Lovely.

I was discussing a point you made, and indeed largely agreeing with you. At the same time I sought to reinforce the basic need for personal responsibilities. You chose to misinterpret it, take offence, decide it was directed at you and suggest I wasn’t nice. I wasn’t giving YOU life advice I was talking about the supposed miscreants that we were both discussing. Your problem, not mine but you really need to think before you shoot. .. and that IS life advice. 

[ramit]

8 hours ago, jono said:

I was discussing a point you made, and indeed largely agreeing with you. At the same time I sought to reinforce the basic need for personal responsibilities. You chose to misinterpret it, take offence, decide it was directed at you and suggest I wasn’t nice. I wasn’t giving YOU life advice I was talking about the supposed miscreants that we were both discussing. Your problem, not mine but you really need to think before you shoot. .. and that IS life advice. 

Internet discourse can lead to inaccuracies and misunderstandings, such as perhaps in our case.  Am sure we would get along fine in person with gestures, voice tone and facial movements to aid us, heh.

You shoot from the hip here just like i do

[jono]

4 minutes ago, ramit said:

Internet discourse can lead to inaccuracies and misunderstandings, such as perhaps in our case.  Am sure we would get along fine in person with gestures, voice tone and facial movements to aid us, heh.

You shoot from the hip here just like i do

Fair enough, let’s just leave it there. Have a good night. ?

[atherstoneram]

8 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

What if a playoff semi final win was against a team who’s fans might have reacted differently - Leeds, Birmingham, Forest or Millwall. Would the punishment be different than a pitch invasion after a game against the likes of Brighton or Southampton? The benefit of a blanket ban is that it can (and should be) applied consistently without someone having to make a judgement call as to the level of risk of inciting the opposition fans or injuring one of their players. I’m with @Mucker1884 on this one and don’t really see the need to run on the pitch to celebrate an important victory.

Even though actually implementing the punishment would be somewhat difficult (to say the least) in the event of a pitch invasion, the message should be the same.

Not at all,just bring a ruling in that says a pitch invasion will result in x number of games played behind locked gates, yes everyone suffers but that will soon focus minds.

[Simmo’s left foot]

The atmosphere at the ladies semi is fantastic, loads of ladies and kids, everybody supporting the team, no chanting towards the opposition fans,  no taunting, no running on the pitch, no flares, no chanting about fxxxxing bouncing. It’s brilliant to see ?

[Gone]

No chanting at opposition fans, no choice language, no bouncing, and apparently as little men in the crowd as possible. Atmosphere at football will be dead in 2/3 years at this rate. 
Now I’m not condoning pitch invasions etc (however at certain times I think they are joyful events, it’s just lately the odd clown has ruined them ) however football is tribal always has been always will be, take that element out and you kill the game as we know it. You can’t beat an atmosphere with two sets of fans going at it back and forth, supporting their teams. 
It seems we have to make it as sterile as possible to placate the offended by everything crew again, no thanks. 

[angieram]

9 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

Not at all,just bring a ruling in that says a pitch invasion will result in x number of games played behind locked gates, yes everyone suffers but that will soon focus minds.

The problem I have with that is it is so easy to register an account with a local rival, get tickets for a few games, cause havoc, get banned and walk away leaving the club facing the consequences. 

Look at those Birmingham idiots - they caused trouble at our ground last season, but we were made to pay for it with reduced capacities. 

[Gone]

19 minutes ago, angieram said:

The problem I have with that is it is so easy to register an account with a local rival, get tickets for a few games, cause havoc, get banned and walk away leaving the club facing the consequences

You really honestly think that people would be bothered to do that? 
Can we have a shakey head emoji please……

[Kathcairns]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

No chanting at opposition fans, no choice language, no bouncing, and apparently as little men in the crowd as possible. Atmosphere at football will be dead in 2/3 years at this rate. 
Now I’m not condoning pitch invasions etc (however at certain times I think they are joyful events, it’s just lately the odd clown has ruined them ) however football is tribal always has been always will be, take that element out and you kill the game as we know it. You can’t beat an atmosphere with two sets of fans going at it back and forth, supporting their teams. 
It seems we have to make it as sterile as possible to placate the offended by everything crew again, no thanks. 

In the 40's and 50's and mostly 60's grounds were packed with working class fans, no trouble then. It all came in the seventies. If you watch old films the atmosphere was brilliant, rattles and everything, so really you dont need foul and abusive songs and chants at matches.

[Gone]

14 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

In the 40's and 50's and mostly 60's grounds were packed with working class fans, no trouble then. It all came in the seventies. If you watch old films the atmosphere was brilliant, rattles and everything, so really you dont need foul and abusive songs and chants at matches.

Ok 

[Anag Ram]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

No chanting at opposition fans, no choice language, no bouncing, and apparently as little men in the crowd as possible. Atmosphere at football will be dead in 2/3 years at this rate. 
Now I’m not condoning pitch invasions etc (however at certain times I think they are joyful events, it’s just lately the odd clown has ruined them ) however football is tribal always has been always will be, take that element out and you kill the game as we know it. You can’t beat an atmosphere with two sets of fans going at it back and forth, supporting their teams. 
It seems we have to make it as sterile as possible to placate the offended by everything crew again, no thanks. 

But do you not think there was a brilliant atmosphere at the women’s international last night, or at any rugby international?

I’m sure there would have been a few drinks taken before both, yet you won’t hear foul-mouthed ranting and hatred of the opposition.

Unfortunately, football attracts the same type of people who attend protest marches just to hide their bad behaviour in a group setting. Many of them couldn’t identify players from their own team let alone the opposition.

We have to find a way to maintain a party atmosphere and a celebration of our team and football in general.

We owe it to our children, who will be the fans of the future, to set an example.

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

But do you not think there was a brilliant atmosphere at the women’s international last night, or at any rugby international?

Last night was a fantastic performance, fantastic game and throughly enjoyable, do I think the atmosphere was brilliant? As I wasn’t there it’s hard to tell exactly however it seemed ok. Was it comapribale to the England V Germany game in the last Euros, no. Was it comparible to a Derby V Peterborough, Derby V Fulham last season, not even close. 
lets now compare a Rubgy international Vs a local Derby game or a playoff semi final or even a big cup/league game you really think it’s the same or even better? It’s subjective I guess but I don’t see it.

I don’t why but it seems we want to kill any atmosphere at football and turn it into a turn it onto something like you see a socceraid. 

[Gone]

10 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Unfortunately, football attracts the same type of people who attend protest marches just to hide their bad behaviour in a group setting. Many of them couldn’t identify players from their own team let alone the opposition.

Absolute minority, from my experience the boys and girls I know who go and support thier team are maybe a bit loud or sing songs that god forbid have the odd expletive in probably know more about our football club and football in general than most on here. They especially know more than the people who turn up now and again dont want to be offended by any bad language and would rather sit in silence, buy halfscarves and use  clapping sticks or god forbid “hold a can I have your shirt please placard”

[Kathcairns]

15 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

But do you not think there was a brilliant atmosphere at the women’s international last night, or at any rugby international?

I’m sure there would have been a few drinks taken before both, yet you won’t hear foul-mouthed ranting and hatred of the opposition.

Unfortunately, football attracts the same type of people who attend protest marches just to hide their bad behaviour in a group setting. Many of them couldn’t identify players from their own team let alone the opposition.

We have to find a way to maintain a party atmosphere and a celebration of our team and football in general.

We owe it to our children, who will be the fans of the future, to set an example.

Think you are right, we do owe it to our children to set a good example. My son started going at 5 and now we take his son at 5. We just want to enjoy the game.