Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Comrade 86]

9 hours ago, Archied said:

Wouldn’t it just be easier and nicer to say hang on there’s some stuff I think you need to check out regards the current state of Rwanda 

Fair one, duly noted. 

[Comrade 86]

8 hours ago, cstand said:

 

Apologies I did not mean you individually I meant the world in general.

I have no doubt there are still problems in Rwanda and need to be monitored closely.

I was pleasantly surprised by how many African countries have banned single use plastic and was even more surprised Rwanda was included in the list.

Will not mention that country again.

https://www.greenpeace.org/africa/en/blogs/11156/34-plastic-bans-in-africa/

Not going to debate this further as it's well off topic but I do apologise for my rather surly response to the point you made. Not my finest moment.

[ariotofmyown]

Replying to @Archied here on his Ulez extension post to say I agree with his comments of Ulez extension.

For those who don't know, people driving older cars/diesels inside much of the M25 have to pay 12.50 per day from some point next year.

Ok if you can afford a new 100k Tesla. Not so easy if you have an old car and have to drive to a lower paid job each day.

Some of the transport links in outer London are pretty poor too, especially if you not going just in and out of central London. People will also stop going to businesses and shops from outside the zone too, especially where there are no alternative routes.

If you look at the congestion map too, look what they have done with Chessington. Big extension just to charge extra for people going there. Good luck trying to find a public transport alternative.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Replying to @Archied here on his Ulez extension post to say I agree with his comments of Ulez extension.

For those who don't know, people driving older cars/diesels inside much of the M25 have to pay 12.50 per day from some point next year.

Ok if you can afford a new 100k Tesla. Not so easy if you have an old car and have to drive to a lower paid job each day.

Some of the transport links in outer London are pretty poor too, especially if you not going just in and out of central London. People will also stop going to businesses and shops from outside the zone too, especially where there are no alternative routes.

If you look at the congestion map too, look what they have done with Chessington. Big extension just to charge extra for people going there. Good luck trying to find a public transport alternative.

Thanks , have posted the quote you refer to below which you rightly pointed out was perhaps in the wrong topic, maybe a net zero timescale / impact topic is worth opening as I think it could be the next in importance issue since brexit

=========================

 

Change is good if it’s thought through , planned properly and for the better ,it’s very much like the net zero targets in the U.K. now , yes we all want to have cleaner air but not at the cost of destroying lives and the poor getting poorer,

london mayor has anouced the ulez zone to be extended massively from august next year , the impact on ordinary working folk is disgusting, I now have a van ( aug next year ) that costs 12.50 every day I take it off the drive , my wife’s car the same ( 7 seater vehicle used for her work as childminder ) , these are diesel that we were told to buy by the gov so £25 a day for us just to get off the drive to work , we have vehicles that will plummet in value and probably the thick end of 100k to replace and meet the NEW demands , we are in Surbiton miles from london and the stupid road changes / traffic flow guff forced on the area over the last year and a half have caused major congestion and pollution already , you wonder if that is the aim as the changes are so so stupid and obviously will clog the roads up??‍♂️

we are headed for big trouble and division that will make brexit look like a small squabble 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Archied

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Replying to @Archied here on his Ulez extension post to say I agree with his comments of Ulez extension.

For those who don't know, people driving older cars/diesels inside much of the M25 have to pay 12.50 per day from some point next year.

Ok if you can afford a new 100k Tesla. Not so easy if you have an old car and have to drive to a lower paid job each day.

Some of the transport links in outer London are pretty poor too, especially if you not going just in and out of central London. People will also stop going to businesses and shops from outside the zone too, especially where there are no alternative routes.

If you look at the congestion map too, look what they have done with Chessington. Big extension just to charge extra for people going there. Good luck trying to find a public transport alternative.

You are right to point out the devastation to small shops and businesses too , this is on top of red routes , parking restrictions and traffic measures imposed from quite a few years back till today and ongoing , so many have totally lost they’re trade , not only are we pushed to giants like Amazon but we lose the human and community interaction,

we really need to look hard at where we are headed and if we can achieve cleaner greener aims in a more manageable and less destructive way , what use sparkling air and saving the planet for us to all live in sterile pods ,never leaving and never communicating other than on a computer screen, there’s a lot good with our older and current lives, baby and bath water springs to mind

[Archied]

Good to see our net zero policy having less impact on the planet and helping our energy independence, 

we won’t frack our own gas but we will buy it from USA with the extra pollution and cost involved in liquifying it , transportation across the Atlantic and de liquifying it ??

[Stive Pesley]

24 minutes ago, Archied said:

Good to see our net zero policy having less impact on the planet and helping our energy independence, 

we won’t frack our own gas but we will buy it from USA with the extra pollution and cost involved in liquifying it , transportation across the Atlantic and de liquifying it ??

And the government have just approved the first new coal mine in 30 years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381

It's almost like they don't know what they are doing

[JoetheRam]

39 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

And the government have just approved the first new coal mine in 30 years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381

It's almost like they don't know what they are doing

It's almost as if a Government can say they have a net zero policy in the hope that the people who vote for them hear this sound bite and think "yes, I shall vote Tory again, at least they're doing something about the environment" whilst at the same time taking actions that go completely against that policy, in the hope that the people who vote for them hear this news and think "well this must be because of that Putin fella, at least it'll create some jobs in the North". 

Then when the other side get in in two years and want to be seen to be green, they'll not be able to because someone will demand they commit to closing down the coal mine to show their green credentials, which they won't be able to because it'll cost a load of jobs in the North.

Connecting the dots isn't the electorates strong point, so it's probably a win for the Government. Bloody politics.

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

And the government have just approved the first new coal mine in 30 years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381

It's almost like they don't know what they are doing

They just can’t win!! One week you are slating them for closing down the pits and now for opening one. Come on which is it open or closed?

[Crewton]

It's a real snub to Maggie Thatcher, that's all I can say ?

 

Seriously though, it's typical long-term thinking to destroy mining communities when they didn't need destroying, then 40 years later try to recreate one out of nothing when coal is on its way out and criticise people for viewing the whole thing cynically.

Pneumoconiosis anyone?

[Archied]

31 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's a real snub to Maggie Thatcher, that's all I can say ?

 

Seriously though, it's typical long-term thinking to destroy mining communities when they didn't need destroying, then 40 years later try to recreate one out of nothing when coal is on its way out and criticise people for viewing the whole thing cynically.

Pneumoconiosis anyone?

Personally I believe this whole net zero fiasco / pretence is being driven by money and power , climate crisis lockdowns anyone?

[Stive Pesley]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

climate crisis lockdowns anyone?

It'll  be Climate crisis vaccinations next!

[Gaspode]

I think the argument is that we're not (and won't be in the near future) in a position to replace the use of coal in steel manufacturing, so it's either open a new pit in an area that desperately needs the jobs or else continue to import at a higher price and with even more damage to the environment by bringing it in via big ships....

Seems a daft decision at first sight, but possibly the only answer without shutting down the steel manufaturing plants (which we'd then need to replace with imported steel) and at the cost of many, many thousands of jobs....

 

[Reggie Greenwood]

3 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I think the argument is that we're not (and won't be in the near future) in a position to replace the use of coal in steel manufacturing, so it's either open a new pit in an area that desperately needs the jobs or else continue to import at a higher price and with even more damage to the environment by bringing it in via big ships....

Seems a daft decision at first sight, but possibly the only answer without shutting down the steel manufaturing plants (which we'd then need to replace with imported steel) and at the cost of many, many thousands of jobs....

 

Most steel manufactures are moving away from coke to Hydrogen and if I remember correctly the UK steel industry won’t be using coke in the next 3-5 years 

 

[Carl Sagan]

2 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I think the argument is that we're not (and won't be in the near future) in a position to replace the use of coal in steel manufacturing, so it's either open a new pit in an area that desperately needs the jobs or else continue to import at a higher price and with even more damage to the environment by bringing it in via big ships....

Seems a daft decision at first sight, but possibly the only answer without shutting down the steel manufaturing plants (which we'd then need to replace with imported steel) and at the cost of many, many thousands of jobs....

Lots of information and counter information swirling around this one, but this is certainly the justification. The coal mined isn't destined for power stations, it's coking coal for the steel industry. Most people who think about these things consider it a strategic necessity for a country such as ours to have some domestic steel manufacturing capacity. To do this, we need coking coal. Do we import that from other countries or manage the mining well ourselves (and create local jobs) and supply our own industry? On these grounds it seems a sensible decision, despite the criticism.

[Gritstone Ram]

5 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Most steel manufactures are moving away from coke to Hydrogen and if I remember correctly the UK steel industry won’t be using coke in the next 3-5 years 

 

What’s this Hydrogen stuff that’s taking over from the marching powder? 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

It'll  be Climate crisis vaccinations next!

Have you not been taking notice of what places like Oxford and Canterbury are intending to bring in , are you not taking note of our mr whitty talking about nudge now in terms of net zero now , you could do with taking notice before it’s not only your place of work that’s closed it will be your street / zone 

[Archied]

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/

Sounds like a good idea to me. Encouraging proper communities where everything you need is within 15 minutes, and people make fewer needless journeys in their cars. Or have I missed something?

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Most people who think about these things consider it a strategic necessity for a country such as ours to have some domestic steel manufacturing capacity. To do this, we need coking coal. Do we import that from other countries or manage the mining well ourselves (and create local jobs) and supply our own industry? On these grounds it seems a sensible decision, despite the criticism.

Sadly I think you're right. And it ultimately proves what a short-sighted decision it was for Thatcher to close all the pits in the first place. The damage done to communities that has lasted for a generation is now shown to have been a bad move. People never learn