Finance thread 2022.

[uttoxram75]

I don't think we need to worry too much about the rich, they're certainly not leaving the UK in droves paying 45% tax.

https://news.sky.com/story/sunday-times-rich-list-2022-uk-has-a-record-number-of-billionaires-12617181

[Gone]

5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19978222/nearly-3000-troops-live-on-benefits-shock-stats-show/

 

They should just work harder......bloody scroungers.

You’ve quoted the Sun newspaper and you want taking serious?

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

People earning over £150k have a much higher marginal rate than 40%.  It's now 45% still of course. Plus 3.25% NI. Plus personal allowances and pension allowances withdrawn for high earners. So the effective  marginal rate is well over 50%. At which point a lot of high earners just decide to quit, which doesn't help the economy at all. . 

What's the dropout rate for such people? 

Can't say I've ever met someone who's quit work because they were taxed too much, but no doubt they exist. 

[Stive Pesley]

8 minutes ago, Crewton said:

What's the dropout rate for such people? 

Can't say I've ever met someone who's quit work because they were taxed too much, but no doubt they exist. 

They don't quit work because they're taxed so much. They work out how to evade the tax. There is a massive industry of hard working accountants helping them ?

But realistically, if someone is in PAYE employment and they earn over £150k then they are clearly very good at what they do to be able to command such a salary - therefore it's common place for the employer to gross up the salary to negate the impact of the higher tax rate - otherwise they would just go and take their skills elsewhere.

[Rev]

46 minutes ago, Crewton said:

What's the dropout rate for such people? 

Can't say I've ever met someone who's quit work because they were taxed too much, but no doubt they exist. 

I won't do overtime, because it's taxed at 40%, and I'd rather spend that time with my family than at work.

Although,  I wouldn't work it at 20% either, because I'm inherently lazy.

[PistoldPete]

30 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

They don't quit work because they're taxed so much. They work out how to evade the tax. There is a massive industry of hard working accountants helping them ?

But realistically, if someone is in PAYE employment and they earn over £150k then they are clearly very good at what they do to be able to command such a salary - therefore it's common place for the employer to gross up the salary to negate the impact of the higher tax rate - otherwise they would just go and take their skills elsewhere.

You can't swerve high income tax on earned income except by 1) retiring or giving up work 2) earning less by going part time or not doing overtime or 3) moving abroad.

All of these can and do happen as a result of high tax.. .  I know people who could earn over £150k but don't bother because of the tax.   

[PistoldPete]

52 minutes ago, Crewton said:

What's the dropout rate for such people? 

Can't say I've ever met someone who's quit work because they were taxed too much, but no doubt they exist. 

Plenty of doctors doing this according to the BMA. Hardly greedy bar stewards I would hope. 

[ariotofmyown]

54 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

All of these can and do happen as a result of high tax.. .  I know people who could earn over £150k but don't bother because of the tax.   

Are they ok with this, or would they work harder if they could earn 150k plus with lower tax? Either way, I'm not sure they are going to generate this magic growth that 40% rate would apparently give us.

I heard some government lacky talking along the lines of international rich people would move to this country and set up businesses. Or people would be more ready to gamble and set up businesses with 40% rate. Surely total fantasy. The megs rich would find a way to avoid tax anyway and as if ambitious individuals are sitting on their arses because of the high tax rate. 

I'm starting to wonder if this 40% is actually a red herring to get more damaging things through.

These so-called investment zones. If they are so great, why doesn't the whole of the uk become an investment zone?

And whilst everyone has been going on about the relatively small amount for 40% rate, it helps divert conversation away from the fact that there is no actual plan at all. Or no plan to fund the energy handouts. Or no plan to reduce tax next spring. Just irresponsible unfunded ideas. You just have to believe they are right.

[AndyinLiverpool]

17 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Are they ok with this, or would they work harder if they could earn 150k plus with lower tax? Either way, I'm not sure they are going to generate this magic growth that 40% rate would apparently give us.

I heard some government lacky talking along the lines of international rich people would move to this country and set up businesses. Or people would be more ready to gamble and set up businesses with 40% rate. Surely total fantasy. The megs rich would find a way to avoid tax anyway and as if ambitious individuals are sitting on their arses because of the high tax rate. 

I'm starting to wonder if this 40% is actually a red herring to get more damaging things through.

These so-called investment zones. If they are so great, why doesn't the whole of the uk become an investment zone?

And whilst everyone has been going on about the relatively small amount for 40% rate, it helps divert conversation away from the fact that there is no actual plan at all. Or no plan to fund the energy handouts. Or no plan to reduce tax next spring. Just irresponsible unfunded ideas. You just have to believe they are right.

Don't you dare do Britain down by criticising the government 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Don't you dare do Britain down by criticising the government 

I'm Mickey Gove.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

You can't swerve high income tax on earned income except by 1) retiring or giving up work 2) earning less by going part time or not doing overtime or 3) moving abroad.

To be fair - almost everyone I know why earns over £150k swerves it using the IR35 loophole. If the employer needs your services, they will pay - you being a contractor makes no odds to them. In a lot of ways it makes it easier for them

[Crewton]

So someone earning £10,000 over the £150k limit will give up work because they're taxed an additional £500?

Where's that Jimmy Hill gif when I need it? 

BTW, the lifetime pension allowance is a bigger issue for Doctors than the income tax level. 

[i-Ram]

Just popped in to see if anyone had any money saving ideas and colour me surprised that there is a class war going on. I’ll get back to my Dom Pérignon Brut and return in a few days to see if anyone has shared their thriftiness.

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

Just popped in to see if anyone had any money saving ideas and colour me surprised that there is a class war going on. I’ll get back to my Dom Pérignon Brut and return in a few days to see if anyone has shared their thriftiness.

Apparently you can save money by not earning anything. 

Don't thank me. 

[ariotofmyown]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Just popped in to see if anyone had any money saving ideas and colour me surprised that there is a class war going on. I’ll get back to my Dom Pérignon Brut and return in a few days to see if anyone has shared their thriftiness.

How was the hedge fund party? Were they all resigning due to having to pay too much tax and now moving to Prosecco?

And this is a wealth war rather than a class war. Your mixing it up with David's holiday thread!

Money saving tip. Avoid tax on earnings over 150k by putting more into your pension.

[i-Ram]

54 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

How was the hedge fund party? Were they all resigning due to having to pay too much tax and now moving to Prosecco?

And this is a wealth war rather than a class war. Your mixing it up with David's holiday thread!

Money saving tip. Avoid tax on earnings over 150k by putting more into your pension.

Class/wealth/political ideology. Call it what you want my friend, it’s the same old grenade throwing thread as all the other ones I’ve seen on here since George Thorne was the news.

[Stive Pesley]

19 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Class/wealth/political ideology. Call it what you want my friend, it’s the same old grenade throwing thread as all the other ones I’ve seen on here since George Thorne was the news.

Difference now is that the penny is starting to drop with everyone that we're not "all in this together". The age-old con that tries to convince ordinary working people that the enemy is all those worse off than themselves is failing.

There is only really  one Japanese soldier left fighting in the jungle who thinks that the problem is benefit scroungers. We're all just trying to de-program him ?

[cstand]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Difference now is that the penny is starting to drop with everyone that we're not "all in this together". The age-old con that tries to convince ordinary working people that the enemy is all those worse off than themselves is failing.

There is only really  one Japanese soldier left fighting in the jungle who thinks that the problem is benefit scroungers. We're all just trying to de-program him ?

We need the penny to drop that redistributing wealth for the sake of equality never works and never will history is littered with these failures.

Everyone ends up equally poor.

 

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, Crewton said:

So someone earning £10,000 over the £150k limit will give up work because they're taxed an additional £500?

Where's that Jimmy Hill gif when I need it? 

BTW, the lifetime pension allowance is a bigger issue for Doctors than the income tax level. 

Dropping the cut in the 45% rate is said to save £1billion.. the flip side of that is the wages of people in that bracket must be £20billion.  So it only takes a minority of those high earners to retire, move abroad , cut their hours or whatever and you lose that supposed benefit straightaway.   

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, cstand said:

redistributing wealth for the sake of equality never works and never will history is littered with these failures.

That's the spirit!

*and also coincidentally exactly what the super rich want the ordinary man to keep thinking...