The Administration Thread

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Eatonram said:

Your losing this argument, best to drop it.

Am still waiting for the figure we owe for Bielik to be quoted, at that point I'll drop it as you put things.

But thanks for the advice anyway. 

[davenportram]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Isn’t the only requirement for exiting administration an agreement from the creditors (or 75% of them by value) to a CVA. However, the EFL can deduct a further 15 points or kick us out the league if the CVA doesn’t meet their requirements or they don’t like the business plan? I can’t remember the rules on FFP/salary cap in L2 but I seem to recall he could inject as much money as he wanted and we wouldn’t fall foul of and rules but the EFL may not approve such a business plan.

The CVA requirement has been dropped from the rules it’s now either 25% as a lump or 35% as payment plan by instalments.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Surely the preferred bidder is the one that puts the best bid in? If we have 3 bids on the table then the best will be the preferred bidder.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I think the preferred bidder is the one that puts enough money on the table to allow the club to exit administration. 

Their bids will also all be contingent on their conditions being met, e.g. the bid is £30m if Mel pays 50% of the MSD loan and sells them the stadium for £10m and HMRC settle for 26%.

If none of the bids actually work, then even the highest of them can't be named the preferred bidder.

[CornwallRam]

3 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

This situation is probably more likely than anyone accepting a minus 15 point start in league 1 and a smaller offer- with no squad anyway there would need to be bigger investment however I don’t think Derby would start again that high up (league 2) would be surprised. Also, would Mike Ashley want to be in charge of a league 2 club?

I don’t think anything will happen unless Mel Morris a accepts a hit on the stadium. I doubt Quantuma have actually received a good enough bid yet. 

I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan.

I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. 

I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change.

It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. 

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I think the preferred bidder is the one that puts enough money on the table to allow the club to exit administration. 

Their bids will also all be contingent on their conditions being met, e.g. the bid is £30m if Mel pays 50% of the MSD loan and sells them the stadium for £10m and HMRC settle for 26%.

If none of the bids actually work, then even the highest of them can't be named the preferred bidder.

Seems quite likely that (as you suggest) MM might be asked to support bids, especially on a relegation scenario. Because there may be no bidder willing to buy on the basis of -15 in div 1.  
 

negotiating the details of the support might take some while 

[GenBr]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

But you are right we need to improve recruitment, and have done to be fair. No problem with  Allsopp , Jags , stearman, Morrison  and co. 

We haven't improved recruitment. The options of our recruitment team have been so limited in recent times that they may as well have not be involved. If it were up to them I'd imagine we'd still be spunking millions up the wall on god awful players.

[Foreveram]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan.

I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. 

I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change.

It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. 

I think I prefer staying up this year and promotion next year.

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan.

I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. 

I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change.

It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. 

A lot of that makes sense apart from a phoenix club being reborn in League 2. For a start as to the EFL saying it is a show of strength i doubt they would let us retain league status, the other 71 league clubs might have something to say about that.It has never been confirmed we would restart in League 2,just a suggestion. Might get a place in the conference or even a division lower. 

[Gaspode]

9 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan.

I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. 

I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change.

It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. 

If it's going to happen, I hope it's about a month before the end of the season - only fair that we completely screw the EFL by destroying their league in the same way they've screwed our club.....

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

Whoever negotiated the £2M fee for Jozwiak needs a medal bigger than a barrel top.

Hope they're in charge of the PB process?

DET article states that we won't receive a penny of any transfer fee it all will go straight back to cover outstanding payments on his original transfer fee which we haven't settled yet this is just to wipe the original slate clean with Lech Poznan and the figure we will actually receive which will go straight back to Lech Poznan is £1 million.

The article does mention Nixons name several times so read into that what you will

[CornwallRam]

13 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I think I prefer staying up this year and promotion next year.

I'd prefer to get a time machine, go back to Wembley in 2014 and warn one of midfielders to track Zamora as the defence were about to mess things up.

Sadly, that's very unlikely to happen either.

[Tyler Durden]

17 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

If it's going to happen, I hope it's about a month before the end of the season - only fair that we completely screw the EFL by destroying their league in the same way they've screwed our club.....

This. I'd be more than happy if we go into liquidation a few weeks before seasons end then it means all of our results will be annulled meaning chaos ensuing for the EFL to try and detangle all of the potential claims from club who then fail to reach the playoffs accordingly or get relegated. 

Serious question  - if we get liquidated do we no long exist therefore this means there is another relegation place left to be filled as its the bottom 3 clubs whom will go down? Which assuming we would have finished in the bottom 3 means this would then mean Reading would then fall into the bottom 3 at our expense?

[CornwallRam]

17 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

If it's going to happen, I hope it's about a month before the end of the season - only fair that we completely screw the EFL by destroying their league in the same way they've screwed our club.....

I think I read somewhere that it would have to happen by mid-March to be able to join a league for the following season. If that's true, it would have to happen next week, or we'd miss a season. 

Part of me would love the chaos that the EFL would have to deal with if it did happen next week. I'd also think it that missing a season would be very tricky as there wouldn't be a gap in the pyramid. Our gates would also really suffer as many would have gotten out of the habit of dedicating so much time, energy and money to football.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, I know nuffin said:

Question not a statement. If we still owe money on anyone why have the EFL removed outstanding transfer fees off our charge sheet

I believe that currently all due payments are up to date.  Shinnie/Marshall went probably to clear Wigan debt,  Charlotte are taking the payments to Poznan.  Bielik deferred payment I assume was paid with held TV money and maybe a Kelleyman/ Williams fee.  Basically were up to date at the minute so it's gone of the charge sheet.  Always wondered about payments to Cocu and the Joiners master of ceremonies but assume they must be sorted in some capacity.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I'd prefer to get a time machine, go back to Wembley in 2014 and warn one of midfielders to track Zamora as the defence were about to mess things up.

Sadly, that's very unlikely to happen either.

I'd like our 6ft 2 full back, who used to be a midfielder, to put their 5'2 winger out of play alongside the ball rather than stand there like a wet lettuce.  This avoids our centre half coming across to a totally false position not knowing what to do as he runs into the box and stops Lance Corporal Jones standing on his own screaming Don't Panic as he spoons it out to Zamora.  Not that it matters now but Forsyth at the start of that is often missed and sticks with more than any bit.

[Tamworthram]

56 minutes ago, davenportram said:

The CVA requirement has been dropped from the rules it’s now either 25% as a lump or 35% as payment plan by instalments.

I didn’t mention 25% as a lump sum or 35% as part of a payment plan.

Any CVA, in any industry, has to be approved by 75% (in value) of creditors I believe.

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

This. I'd be more than happy if we go into liquidation a few weeks before seasons end then it means all of our results will be annulled meaning chaos ensuing for the EFL to try and detangle all of the potential claims from club who then fail to reach the playoffs accordingly or get relegated. 

Serious question  - if we get liquidated do we no long exist therefore this means there is another relegation place left to be filled as its the bottom 3 clubs whom will go down? Which assuming we would have finished in the bottom 3 means this would then mean Reading would then fall into the bottom 3 at our expense?

Surely the answer to your serious question is no. Only 2 teams would be relegated. Otherwise, to keep the numbers up in the Championship, four teams would have to get promoted from league one, then four from league two and so on.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Who knows that's my point? The supposition by @roboto was that in their opinion it would be unlikely that we've stacked up all of the payments to the last year of his contract but do we know that? After all Morris stacked up all of the payments owed to HMRC before he bailed?

It was reported that we'd paid £2M of the fee mate when this first came to light mate which was at the point the creditors list was posted at Companies House. I think it's therefore entirely fair that folk make assumptions on that basis. Nobody will know the precise figures bar the admins themselves but I'm not sure why you are dismissing any picture that is not the bleakest possible scenario when the facts actually contradict your guess, not theirs. Furthermore, this is a forum after all with all that that implies. You've advocated poster rights to reply on that basis, so perhaps you should be mindful of that too?

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Surely the answer to your serious question is no. Only 2 teams would be relegated. Otherwise, to keep the numbers up in the Championship, four teams would have to get promoted from league one, then four from league two and so on.

I genuinely don't know. I would have said the bottom 3 teams still get relegated but that's me thinking out of spite mainly.

If it meant an extra team getting promoted from League 1 then so be it.

[Tamworthram]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

I genuinely don't know. I would have said the bottom 3 teams still get relegated but that's me thinking out of spite mainly.

If it meant an extra team getting promoted from League 1 then so be it.

I think there is zero chance of three other teams getting relegated if we were to go into liquidation. Even if we were mid table, I think the number of teams being relegated would be reduced to two but I’m guessing and applying reasonable logic rather than knowledge of the rules.