Reducing Wages

[sage]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

Doesn't look like these figures take into account on-costs - NI and pensions, which would push the bill over £4 million. Also, GOC's figures are for all staff, including non-playing staff. Are they part of the 60% rule?

How reliable are this year's figures anyway? I don't buy that there anything more than guesses, really. We only really know previous years' wages bills from the accounts (which is why ours are so difficult to estimate, as we have no accounts!)

The thread was discussing 'players wages only' from the first post. 

[angieram]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

Doesn't look like these figures take into account on-costs - NI and pensions, which would push the bill over £4 million. Also, GOC's figures are for all staff, including non-playing staff. Are they part of the 60% rule?

How reliable are this year's figures anyway? I don't buy that there anything more than guesses, really. We only really know previous years' wages bills from the accounts (which is why ours are so difficult to estimate, as we have no accounts!)

To quote myself, these are their sources: 

Press releases, news & articles, online encyclopedias & databases, industry experts & insiders. ?

@sage, did you use this database as your source for Tom Lawrence? They say he is on £27,000 per week, not £30,000.

It's still way too much, but wondered why you've added 10%? And don't give me "on-costs"!

[angieram]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

The thread was discussing 'players wages only' from the first post. 

Fair enough, just pointing out you and GOC were comparing apples with pears. 

Do you know whether that 60% includes on-costs? Because it usually adds 10-15% to the salary bill. I'm no accountant but I think it is usual practice to calculate salary costs inclusive of add-ons when preparing budgets.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by angieram
Unnecessary, Angela!

[sage]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

To quote myself, these are their sources: 

Press releases, news & articles, online encyclopedias & databases, industry experts & insiders. ?

@sage, did you use this database as your source for Tom Lawrence? They say he is on £27,000 per week, not £30,000.

It's still way too much, but wondered why you've added 10%? And don't give me "on-costs"!

For championship teams there are more of these sites, some said £30k, some said £27k. 

 

[sage]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

Fair enough, just pointing out you and GOC were comparing apples with pears. 

Do you know whether that 60% includes on-costs? Because it usually adds 10-15% to the salary bill. I'm no accountant but I think it is usual practice to calculate salary costs inclusive of add-ons when preparing budgets. 

 

The 60% isn't my figure. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by angieram
Ditto

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, sage said:

The 60% isn't my figure. 

Should I be asking @Ghost of Clough? Sorry, just reading through the thread.

[Grumpy Git]

Assuming we stay afloat, there won't be as much opportunity for players to move for 'mega' wages. Those days are over for all non Prem players,  (I hope)!

[WoollyJumper]

But surely we would be getting parachute payments.

?

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, angieram said:

Fair enough, just pointing out you and GOC were comparing apples with pears. 

Do you know whether that 60% includes on-costs? Because it usually adds 10-15% to the salary bill. I'm no accountant but I think it is usual practice to calculate salary costs inclusive of add-ons when preparing budgets.

 

Found this on t’internet:

What does the Squad Salary Cap cover?

The Squad Salary Cap that came into effect covers all of the expenses a League One or a League Two bears for a player to play in League Matches

That includes the following

basic wages

taxes

bonuses

image rights

agents’ fees and

other fees and expenses paid directly or indirectly to players

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

21 minutes ago, angieram said:

Should I be asking @Ghost of Clough? Sorry, just reading through the thread.

I was trying to run away, then you drag me back into it ?

26 minutes ago, angieram said:

Fair enough, just pointing out you and GOC were comparing apples with pears. 

Do you know whether that 60% includes on-costs? Because it usually adds 10-15% to the salary bill. I'm no accountant but I think it is usual practice to calculate salary costs inclusive of add-ons when preparing budgets.

The short answer is yes. NIC and Tax is included.

60% has a lot of other rules behind it. The big one being the owner can inject as much money into the club to boost the club's turnover (not loans), with it being possible all of this extra money being spent on wages. 100% of money earned from the FA Cup, net transfer income can also be put towards wages.

For example, it excludes players signed on contracts at least 3 years long and were signed at the very latest, the summer before relegation.
Basic salary, plus signing on fees (player and agent), bonuses, and general expenses are all included.

Wages of players when loaned out are excluded.
Players can sometimes be on joint role contracts (eg player-manager). Only 50% of their wages count towards the 60%.

Loads of other little bits included/excluded too.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Ghost of Clough

[Ghost of Clough]

35 minutes ago, Flying Fokker said:

League 1 is spit and sawdust.  Tough tackling and no-nonsense football.  It needs tough, established footballers with a mix of academy players.  One thing you may have to get used to is showcasing academy players and selling them for peanuts. 

No doubt you have several players on big money but they will have to move on to balance the books or they will be a drain on the club.

You will not come up unless the team strong.  Seen the likes of Southampton and Brentford over the years.  They shone over and above the seasons.     

If your manager is savvy he will know when to sell mediocre players.  Cov City have been doing this for years. Someone comes in for a player and offers a million or more.  Some of them go on to prove their worth. Callum Wilson for example.  The Gael Bigirimana's of the world end up playing in Irish leagues.    You may be a selling club for the next decade or so.   

I look at the likes of Cashin, JBrown and especially Festy and think they wouldn't exactly struggle with the physicality in L1...

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, sage said:

it would seem our annual wage bill is £12m a year or £230k a week.

I would imagine if we are relegated we would need to cut our wages by around 50%. 

What would this look like?

The following senior players are out of contract at the end of the season or January.  Lawrence (30k), CKR (13k) Byrne (11k)  Forsyth (9k) Marshall 8.5k) Shinnie (6.5k) Roos (5k) and Davies Jagielka Allsop Baldock Morrison and Stearman (6 x 4.5k)

Total - 109k - 47%

So if we renewed none of these contracts we would be there or thereabouts. 

 

Our other highest wage earners are 

Bielik (20k) and Jozwiak (15k)  - 15%

So selling Bielik and Jozwiak could allow us to keep, for example, Byrne (on a reduced contract), Shinnie Roos, Allsop, Morrison and Davies. obviously we could get fees but they would be mainly eaten up by outstanding payments, 21/22 losses and offering longer contracts to our younger players.  

 

That would mean a matchday squad of 

                                  Stretton

Sibley                       Morrison          Knight    

                      Bird                Shinnie

Williams      Buchanan*     Davies    Byrne

                                  Roos

Subs - Allsop Cashin Dixon Watson Hutchinson Thompson Ebosele McDonald

 

*Buchanan is out of contract but on a low wage and we would get compensation if he left, but i hope he would stay

 

 

The elephant in the room, ok he hasn't put that much weight on, is Rooney and his wages. How much do we pay? (net of 32 Red)   

 

 

 

£6M or £115 a week.

 

 

Sorry @sageI just had to do it

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, BathRam72 said:

£6M or £115 a week.

 

 

Sorry @sageI just had to do it

I'm willing to bet a little bit more than that ?

[Crewton]

For those wage figures to be true, the EFL would have had to approve us signing players on > £600kpa whilst supposedly under a 'soft' embargo eg : Marshall, Byrne, Joswiak, Kazim, improved contracts for Sibley, Knight & Bird (they sure weren't on that kind of money pre-January 2020). The figure for Roos also looks ridiculous, though knowing what the likes of Buttercup were  on, perhaps that isn't far-fetched.

[sage]

24 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

£6M or £115 a week.

 

 

Sorry @sageI just had to do it

Do what? 

[angieram]

54 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Assuming we stay afloat, there won't be as much opportunity for players to move for 'mega' wages. Those days are over for all non Prem players,  (I hope)!

I think this is an element that will work in our favour. There are very few clubs still able to splash the cash - Prem teams and 4-6 with parachute payments. 

The more the EFL tries to get its act in order, the bigger the cliff face between the whole of the EFL and the Premier League.

Leaves the very best players getting poached cheaply and the rest of them having to accept they'll never be good enough.

It's going to be a harsh lesson for the future Lawrence's, Keogh's and Waghorn's of this world, because from a youngish age, their ambition that one day they might play for that club that makes it to the Premier League is gone.

Now, I have gone completely off topic, sorry!

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

For context, Rotherham's wage bill in League 1 is usually about £6m. They have a turnover of just under £10m which tends to mean they run at breakeven at that level.

We'd have a budget, approx £10m higher, but will spend £4m more on the academy. Other costs will be higher than Rotherham's so a £10m wage bill wouldn't be unreasonable.

Worth remembering there is a salary cap in league 1 and 2 now too? 

[Ramarena]

6 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Worth remembering there is a salary cap in league 1 and 2 now too? 

They scrapped it in Feb

[Ghost of Clough]

34 minutes ago, Crewton said:

For those wage figures to be true, the EFL would have had to approve us signing players on > £600kpa whilst supposedly under a 'soft' embargo eg : Marshall, Byrne, Joswiak, Kazim, improved contracts for Sibley, Knight & Bird (they sure weren't on that kind of money pre-January 2020). The figure for Roos also looks ridiculous, though knowing what the likes of Buttercup were  on, perhaps that isn't far-fetched.

Embargo cap at the time of signing Marshall, Byrne and Jozwiak was about £12.5k

[Tombo]

You know what they say. You have lies, damned lies, and threads about player wages on dcfcfans