Fozzy

[NottsRam77]

17 hours ago, Coconut's Beard said:

I wasn't disagreeing with you, it wasn't a criticism of NC, just adding some context. I think it was 9 transfer windows across 4 years or something like that.

It works both ways.

The more money you have to spend the more money you have to waste, the bigger the transfer fees, the more obnoxious your spending looks when a player turns out not to be a good fit. However if you only ever really get to sign people on budget fees you're never taking the risk that an expensive signing might fail, and people more easily forget that ones which didn't work out.

High risk / low reward vs Low risk / high reward.

It's easy to remember the signings Clough made who went on to perform so well for us over a number of years but they only really cover maybe, what, 1 in 7 of his signings? (so roughly 8-9/60 who went on to impress in the long run).  I'd probably say another 3/7 were 'decent' signings and the other 3/7 "didn't work out".

Of his two 'expensive' signings (for us at the time) you've got Keogh & Sammon which is quite the contrast.

Other managers who've come and gone since then have been working under totally different budgets and expectations, so it's not really fair to compare but if you were then ratio wise you're probably looking at roughly similar, however value for money wise it's been a disaster. Whether that's purely down to the amount of money we've thrown about or the specific manager's ability to choose the right players is up for debate.

It's impossible to say what would have happened had Nigel  had the same budget as other managers, he could have signed more Keoghs or he could have signed more Sammons.

Anyway, Craig Forsyth, love him, deserves a testimonial.

Agree… id add barker and shackle to thr big fee catagory 

chris martin on a free … that always win s it for me … oh a and bucko

and eustace

Now uv got me started lol

bryson, russell..fozzy all for about 5 weeks of beadley johnsons wages lol

 

[Crewton]

Without wishing to go over old ground, the frustration with Nigel was the players who he binned off without explanation (Cywka, Jacobs, Bailey, Maguire, Moxey, Freeman, Stocks) or whose careers eventually went backwards under him (Addison, Croft, Dave Martin), and his habit of finding a winning formula and suddenly unfinding it because something upset him (Kuqi). 

There's no argument though that, despite many, many misses - he left us with some real bargains. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Without wishing to go over old ground, the frustration with Nigel was the players who he binned off without explanation (Cywka, Jacobs, Bailey, Maguire, Moxey, Freeman, Stocks) or whose careers eventually went backwards under him (Addison, Croft, Dave Martin), and his habit of finding a winning formula and suddenly unfinding it because something upset him (Kuqi). 

There's no argument though that, despite many, many misses - he left us with some real bargains. 

Cywka and Maguire fall into the 'doesn't do what the gaffer wants' camp.
Bailey overtaken by Hendrick and Hughes. Byrson, Eustace and Coutts in the team too pushed him out completely.
Jacobs and Freeman were binned by Mac I.
Moxey sold for a reasonable fee when we already had Roberts as a starter.
No idea who Stocks is?
Addison thought the answer to everything was to bulk up even more... which ruined his career
Croft and Martin just weren't very good to begin with. Better players signed and replaced them.

[Carnero]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

Cywka and Maguire fall into the 'doesn't do what the gaffer wants' camp.
Bailey overtaken by Hendrick and Hughes. Byrson, Eustace and Coutts in the team too pushed him out completely.
Jacobs and Freeman were binned by Mac I.
Moxey sold for a reasonable fee when we already had Roberts as a starter.
No idea who Stocks is?
Addison thought the answer to everything was to bulk up even more... which ruined his career
Croft and Martin just weren't very good to begin with. Better players signed and replaced them.

Was just about to post, not a single player on that list went on to achieve anything at Championship level or higher in the rest of their career. Not a single player. The "best" was probably Jacobs who was dynamite in L1 for Wolves but failed to cut it at Championship level for either Derby, Wolves or Wigan.

[Crewton]

36 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

No idea who Stocks is?

Me neither ?

[Foreveram]

35 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Was just about to post, not a single player on that list went on to achieve anything at Championship level or higher in the rest of their career. Not a single player. The "best" was probably Jacobs who was dynamite in L1 for Wolves but failed to cut it at Championship level for either Derby, Wolves or Wigan.

 

35 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Was just about to post, not a single player on that list went on to achieve anything at Championship level or higher in the rest of their career. Not a single player. The "best" was probably Jacobs who was dynamite in L1 for Wolves but failed to cut it at Championship level for either Derby, Wolves or Wigan.

Disagree, I think Jacobs was a cracker 

[Crewton]

36 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Was just about to post, not a single player on that list went on to achieve anything at Championship level or higher in the rest of their career. Not a single player. The "best" was probably Jacobs who was dynamite in L1 for Wolves but failed to cut it at Championship level for either Derby, Wolves or Wigan.

Point was, they either never got a proper chance to show what they could do, or were sidelined or under-used when playing well. Jacob's wiki page tells a familiar story better than I can 

Quote

On New Year's Day 2013 Jacobs was deployed in an unfamiliar role as a forward, in which he scored during a 3–1 win over Middlesbrough as well as setting up a further goal and being named man-of-the-match.[17] His performance was praised by Nigel Clough, who noted how well he adapted to the role.[18] However, he would start only one further match during the season and began all other fixtures from the substitutes bench.

It was a criticism often leveled at Nigel, and quite fairly, that he treated some players appallingly. You'd have to ask him why, if he knows himself. Small wonder that some of them lost all their confidence and disappeared without a trace. It's not unusual in managers of his and earlier generations, but I don't think it benefited the club at all.

[Foreveram]

16 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Point was, they either never got a proper chance to show what they could do, or were sidelined or under-used when playing well. Jacob's wiki page tells a familiar story better than I can 

It was a criticism often leveled at Nigel, and quite fairly, that he treated some players appallingly. You'd have to ask him why, if he knows himself. Small wonder that some of them lost all their confidence and disappeared without a trace. It's not unusual in managers of his and earlier generations, but I don't think it benefited the club at all.

Definitely a trait inherited from his father, the difference though is that Clough senior had Peter Taylor playing good cop.

[MuespachRam]

Fozzy player of the year . Give It him now. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by MuespachRam

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Point was, they either never got a proper chance to show what they could do, or were sidelined or under-used when playing well. Jacob's wiki page tells a familiar story better than I can 

It was a criticism often leveled at Nigel, and quite fairly, that he treated some players appallingly. You'd have to ask him why, if he knows himself. Small wonder that some of them lost all their confidence and disappeared without a trace. It's not unusual in managers of his and earlier generations, but I don't think it benefited the club at all.

I think for a lot of his time at Derby he was dealing with players who were wildly inconsistent. He was getting frustrated by them, because he had a frustrating set of players.  I think that’s in part why originally he allowed Savage back into the fold. A player long past his best but he knew he’d get more consistency game by game out of him than others. It wasn’t until Clough got in the likes of Keogh, Ward and Bryson at first then Fozzy, Eustace and Martin the season afterwards that he had a spine of players he could rely on to get 7/10’s week in week out and raise the game of everyone else around them.

Then he got sacked, rightly or wrongly.

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I think for a lot of his time at Derby he was dealing with players who were wildly inconsistent. He was getting frustrated by them, because he had a frustrating set of players.  I think that’s in part why originally he allowed Savage back into the fold. A player long past his best but he knew he’d get more consistency game by game out of him than others. It wasn’t until Clough got in the likes of Keogh, Ward and Bryson at first then Fozzy, Eustace and Martin the season afterwards that he had a spine of players he could rely on to get 7/10’s week in week out and raise the game of everyone else around them.

Then he got sacked, rightly or wrongly.

I generally agree, though he signed Eustace then didn't select him when everyone else could see we needed a DM to balance the attacking flair. It was that obstinacy that did for him in the end here.

[ram59]

Personally, I would have liked to see Nigel work in partnership with SM, but in the 'Peter Taylor' role. 

SM was better with the media and didn't seem to fall out with players, as Nigel did and his style of play was more progressive. On the other hand,  SM didn't seem to be able to find players as did Nigel. But, both had similar thoughts on the type of player they wanted.

Back on the subject of Fozzy, I thought that he didn't play that well, while at lb on Saturday, but improved greatly when forced to change position.

[maydrakin]

21 hours ago, Carnero said:

Was just about to post, not a single player on that list went on to achieve anything at Championship level or higher in the rest of their career. Not a single player. The "best" was probably Jacobs who was dynamite in L1 for Wolves but failed to cut it at Championship level for either Derby, Wolves or Wigan.

I thought Dean Moxey became a “top level talent” at Crystal Palace?

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, maydrakin said:

I thought Dean Moxey became a “top level talent” at Crystal Palace?

Fair point, I didn't remember he got promoted with them to be honest.

[Dethorn]

On 04/10/2021 at 12:58, angieram said:

That's a great chant for Fozzy! 

 

On 04/10/2021 at 15:03, minesahartington said:

Superb

Heh Thanks guys

[Crewton]

Just when you think that the time has come to consign Fozzy to the scrapheap, he turns in a fine performance

He was obviously struggling against the pace of the the Baggies' wide players, but once we switched to a back 3 I thought he was superb, the glanced chest pass back to Allsop being a true piece of class.

He may struggle sometimes at LB/LWB these days but as an LCB he can still do a job.

[Sparkle]

Excellent servant to Derby county and yes we still need him, sure he has the odd poor game the odd great game but we usually can rely on a decent performance from him, in league one we will need him still

[Comrade 86]

Think after 3 knee ops he clearly isn't comfortable getting turned around and this season has looked panicky when that scenario arises. That said, I can't help but love the guy, even if his very best days might be behind him, as he'd run through walls for this club and anyone with the strength of character to undergo 3 lots of ACL physio has my full and unqualified respect. I also thought he was bloomin excellent yesterday.