Steve Gibson trying to liquidate Derby

[Gordamn]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

They don’t need to unless a legal challenge is brought which would take months- their rules leave them with discretion to judge a case on specific merit. 

Thanks for explaining to a simpleton! Struggling to understand the differences between the line of legal action/efl action. 

[Ellafella]

18 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

I suppose this is why people say that Mike Ashley may leave it until the last second!

As we approach liquidation date, Middlesbrough's expected income from their claim approaches zero; as does the value of the stadium.

Ashley can take it or leave it. So, Middlesbrough may blink first. Middlesbrough may prefer a smaller settlement, than get nothing.

Sadly, we fans may have to endure things going to the wire.

Indeed. I suspect there’ll be a deal - eventually but at much greater cost to fans. Eg relegation, no Rooney, no players. Effectively Derby as a carcass. Ripped to bits. 

[Kenavo]

13 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

If none of the bidders are willing to take on the liability of Middlesbrough's claim; that must mean that they think that the claim has some merit!?

Or it means that they want to settle (to have certainty), and will hold out as long as possible in a game of Derby Liquified Chicken!

................

But which one?

Or they have absolutely no confidence that an EFL led arbitration would be impartial, justifiably so because history tells us otherwise.

[Motley]

18 minutes ago, Gordamn said:

Do you know whether the EFL can legally not make a ruling on this? Surely they have to say categorically whether this is football debt or not?

Maybe I've misunderstood but  I can't find anywhere where the EFL have confirmed one way or another. Apologies if this has been asked/answered before.

Correct they haven’t made a ruling, hence the current stalemate…….if they rule it isn’t they face the wrath of Boro….if they. Rule it is we ####d , they open a can of worms of clubs suing clubs and they have to face that music of letting another club go under….

[Ellafella]

2 minutes ago, Gordamn said:

Thanks for explaining to a simpleton! Struggling to understand the differences between the line of legal action/efl action. 

I’m sure you’re not - we have become boxed in on all sides. It’s who blinks first now. 

[AGR]

I have slept on it and decided I'd rather start as a phoenix club than give Gibson and that banker at Wycombe a penny

[Ewe Ram]

4 minutes ago, AGR said:

I have slept on it and decided I'd rather start as a phoenix club than give Gibson and that banker at Wycombe a penny

Me too. I can’t take the injustice of it. Football has long been ruined my money but this is the final straw 

[Ewetube]

5 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Indeed. I suspect there’ll be a deal - eventually but at much greater cost to fans. Eg relegation, no Rooney, no players. Effectively Derby as a carcass. Ripped to bits. 

That's a really disheartening scenario.

If we'd have been as rubbish this season as a lot of us imagined we'd be, it wouldn't be such a bitter pill to swallow.

The fact that we've played with such passion, pride and belief makes it even worse, if it was all for nothing.

[Ken Tram]

22 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

It’s not their job to take the risk. It probably has no merit, but nothing is certain in life, and if they get it wrong, they’ve just committed to £45m or whatever it is for something they have nothing to do with. It’s just not worth any level of risk. 

I don't buy that argument, because the whole club is a risk. What is the likelihood of relegation. It is a risk.

Surely lawyers estimate the chance of success, and that, multiplied by the claim is what the settlement would be.

If the chance is 10% for example, then I think that they'd be taking on a £4.5m liability.

But! Maybe the risk is 50% or 80%. Perhaps there is merit in Middlesbrough's claim. But if the percentage is low, I cannot see that dissuading an investor.

[Indy]

31 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

If none of the bidders are willing to take on the liability of Middlesbrough's claim; that must mean that they think that the claim has some merit!?

Or it means that they want to settle (to have certainty), and will hold out as long as possible in a game of Derby Liquified Chicken!

................

But which one?

Or they’ve been told EFL want it handled by their internal processes not an independent court of law, and everything we’ve seen so far from how the EFL have handled things is that a fair result is far from guaranteed. 

[duncanjwitham]

27 minutes ago, JfR said:

It's a minor point, but the EFL's valuer didn't multiply it to match Pride Park's capacity, he multiplied it to match the average attendance Derby had got in recent seasons. Just another example of why the commission cleared us on that charge.

Honestly, his entire testimony and evidence is an absolute horror-show from the EFL's point of view.  With their valuer massively overstating his own experience, making basic mistakes (confusing cost-per-seat with cost-per-square-meter at one stage), refusing to show where he got values from, deliberately hiding evidence that disagreed with his position, and more.  Anybody that has any doubts about why we won the stadium value charge needs to read that entire section.

[Ken Tram]

18 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Indeed. I suspect there’ll be a deal - eventually but at much greater cost to fans. Eg relegation, no Rooney, no players. Effectively Derby as a carcass. Ripped to bits. 

Even so, that's not as bad as tier 9 or 10 I suppose.

Rooney may stay. He is loyal. Everton are not likely to offer him 20 years in one club - but I think that is what he would like!

He has seen what happened to Lampard.

[Indy]

Just now, duncanjwitham said:

Honestly, his entire testimony and evidence is an absolute horror-show from the EFL's point of view.  With their valuer massively overstating his own experience, making basic mistakes (confusing cost-per-seat with cost-per-square-meter at one stage), refusing to show where he got values from, deliberately hiding evidence that disagreed with his position, and more.  Anybody that has any doubts about why we won the stadium value charge needs to read that entire section.

It’s an incredible read. I didn’t use the phrase ‘laughed out of court’ lightly earlier! The panel were actually furious that their time was being wasted. 

[Ken Tram]

35 minutes ago, Kenavo said:

Or they have absolutely no confidence that an EFL led arbitration would be impartial, justifiably so because history tells us otherwise.

Oh my goodness. I assumed that such a football debt would still be settled in the courts - but just mean that any judgement would have to be paid to avoid further football sanctions.

I didn't realise that the EFL would arbitrate and decide. *Shocked*

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ken Tram

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Radrizzani: "I wanted to focus on the football" ?

Which is exactly what Morris said when asked about suing QPR and Leicester. 

[Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, Ewetube said:

That's a really disheartening scenario.

If we'd have been as rubbish this season as a lot of us imagined we'd be, it wouldn't be such a bitter pill to swallow.

The fact that we've played with such passion, pride and belief makes it even worse, if it was all for nothing.

Absolutely untrue - the pride and the passion is what Derby county is - sure Rooney is organising it on the pitch but all the players have never let us down this year and they have kept the fans going as much as the fans have kept the players going - other teams can’t understand it other fans can’t match it we are Derby County !

[Maharan]

7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Honestly, his entire testimony and evidence is an absolute horror-show from the EFL's point of view.  With their valuer massively overstating his own experience, making basic mistakes (confusing cost-per-seat with cost-per-square-meter at one stage), refusing to show where he got values from, deliberately hiding evidence that disagreed with his position, and more.  Anybody that has any doubts about why we won the stadium value charge needs to read that entire section.

It definitely makes for interesting reading. Cheers for sharing the link earlier 

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Ken Tram said:

Oh my goodness. I assumed that such a football debt would still be settled in the courts - but just mean that any judgement would have to be paid to avoid further funnel sanctions.

I didn't realise that the EFL would arbitrate and decide. *Shocked*

It won't be the EFL themselves, it will be a LAP, like our appeal was. The make-up of it is set out in the rules - something like each side gets to name one panel members, and the 3rd has to be from an official arbitration body or something, with rules on the minimum qualifications each member must have.

I'm not so much worried about the impartiality as the technical competence.  There's no requirement for qualified accountants or anything on the panel, it will be QCs etc again.  So I'm worried that 'Boro rock up and start mouthing off about FRS102, we defend our position, and the LAP (having no experience or training to understand the technical issues), end up deciding based on which lawyer has the smartest suit or which expert witness had the most letters after his name.

[Ewetube]

7 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Absolutely untrue - the pride and the passion is what Derby county is - sure Rooney is organising it on the pitch but all the players have never let us down this year and they have kept the fans going as much as the fans have kept the players going - other teams can’t understand it other fans can’t match it we are Derby County !

My point was it would be unbearable if after all passion, commitment and unity the rug was pulled from under us and it was all torn apart by the suits.

Probably my wording was a little clumsy, time for a nap.?

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Ewetube said:

My point was it would be unbearable if after all passion, commitment and unity the rug was pulled from under us and it was all torn apart by the suits.

Probably my wording was a little clumsy, time for a nap.?

At the end of the day they are going to shaft us but at the end of the day you hold your head higher than theirs