The Stadium

[24Charlie]

This has been discussed on various threads but I think it’s status is key. 
 

Valued at £80+million. If Morris had paid the club the money then we would actually be in profit. 
So why are we circa £60m in the hole. 
 

How have we lost this asset when it hasn’t been paid for?

I’ve read stuff on other threads but I’m not clear on where we sit with it.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by 24Charlie

[DerbySmog]

The fact the money from the stadium sale hasn't cleared the debts maybe shows haw bad the finances are. 

[Crewton]

Just now, DerbySmog said:

The fact the money from the stadium sale hasn't cleared the debts maybe shows haw bad the finances are. 

It's more a question of "have DCFC Ltd actually received all of the sale proceeds?" 

[kevinhectoring]

9 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's more a question of "have DCFC Ltd actually received all of the sale proceeds?" 

MSD controls the stadium and the club. Surely best value for them and the other creditors is obtained by keeping the club as a going concern and by keeping the stadium and the club together. The bigger concern I think is reaching a final resolution with the EFL quickly 

[PistoldPete]

Well we lost in excess of £39 million even with the profit from stadium  sale . Before the stadium sale accrued losses were over £80 million in just three years ending 2017/18 . So maybe Mel said here you are , I swap you the stadium for the £80 million debt you owe and we are quits? We lost ££20 million during pandemic  , then there is money owed to keogh cocu plus money lost during lampards year. All adds up.

[eccles the ram]

I haven't looked at the accounts as a) I am not an accountant and b) I really cannot be bothered. To a common layman I find that the figures being banded around doesn't seem to add up. If the wage bill is £40 million per annum, as widely stated, then over the tenure of Mel this adds up to about £160m. Okay managers have come and gone and, also with Keogh etc.. but would that add up to another £40m. The day to day running Mel says is between £1.3m to £1.5 m per week. If you take the higher figure then that annual amount is around £78m. So we have to pay ongoing running costs but we have had income through season tickets;sponsership deals and a pitiful amount of transfer fees. Yes we have bought players in but their fees were either 'free' or,except for Bielik, on the low side. Also if £80 million was paid for the stadium, where is it? Is there going to be a twist where uncle Mel has the last laugh by,once a buyer purchases the club, he gives us the stadium for nothing? Very very confused. Hopefully someone could enlighten me as I am an old git now!?

[24Charlie]

If the stadium money is spent and we still owe £60mil then the figures definitely do not add up.

Edited September 23, 2021 by 24Charlie

[BaaLocks]

7 minutes ago, eccles the ram said:

I haven't looked at the accounts as a) I am not an accountant

You are in good company it seems

[BaaLocks]

8 minutes ago, eccles the ram said:

Very very confused. I am an old git now!?

You are in good company

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

7 minutes ago, eccles the ram said:

I haven't looked at the accounts as a) I am not an accountant and b) I really cannot be bothered. To a common layman I find that the figures being banded around doesn't seem to add up. If the wage bill is £40 million per annum, as widely stated, then over the tenure of Mel this adds up to about £160m. Okay managers have come and gone and, also with Keogh etc.. but would that add up to another £40m. The day to day running Mel says is between £1.3m to £1.5 m per week. If you take the higher figure then that annual amount is around £78m. So we have to pay ongoing running costs but we have had income through season tickets;sponsership deals and a pitiful amount of transfer fees. Yes we have bought players in but their fees were either 'free' or,except for Bielik, on the low side. Also if £80 million was paid for the stadium, where is it? Is there going to be a twist where uncle Mel has the last laugh by,once a buyer purchases the club, he gives us the stadium for nothing? Very very confused. Hopefully someone could enlighten me as I am an old git now!?

Think the issue was the wages drastically increased a few years back and we are still paying for that now! As well as whatever other debt Morris and Pearce have racked up. If Morris in 2017 was paying £1mil of his own money every month to fund DCFC, we were not sustainable then, so a few years of that ....

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Think the issue was the wages drastically increased a few years back and we are still paying for that now! As well as whatever other debt Morris and Pearce have racked up. If Morris in 2017 was paying £1mil of his own money every month to fund DCFC, we were not sustainable then, so a few years of that ....

Chasing promotion to the Prem 101...

Man bets on red time after time - it keeps coming up black.

Throws enough money on black on one last spin to cover all his losses - it comes up red.

[archram]

I have some vague recollection of the stadium being designated a ‘community asset’ so it can only be used to benefit the community?

[24Charlie]

23 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Think the issue was the wages drastically increased a few years back and we are still paying for that now! As well as whatever other debt Morris and Pearce have racked up. If Morris in 2017 was paying £1mil of his own money every month to fund DCFC, we were not sustainable then, so a few years of that ....

A few years of that is correct but it hasn't been. Even if Mel was putting in £15 million a year of his own money over the last 5 years that's still only £75M. He's says been putting his own money in over the COVID but the rest of the time he hasn't. 

It's easy to say we're paying this and paying that but there has also been income over the last 5 years including the £80 for the stadium.

He's says he's invested, not spent, £200M of his own money into the club. What he has done is leveraged loans against the club, training ground and stadium like the Glaziers did at Man UTD. 

I believe we have the debt because the loans are being serviced by the club, not him, so we owe the money to his creditors.

[jono]

I am like you @eccles the ram

I have been trying to get my head round everything .. 

What we don’t know is what the debt situation was before Mel cam in

We do know that Mel paid off the mortgage on the stadium .. so in the early days it seems we owned it 

If we take a worst case scenario that each 3 years of Mels tenure we lost 39 million ( this includes profits and losses on transfers ) and we take that to be 13 million per year for 7 years (I’m rounding everything up) we get to 90 million then add in 20 million for Covid we get to a 110 million total losses 

But Mel bought the stadium back for 80 Million 

So to my mind theoretically, we should be about 30 million in debt + whatever the debt was when Mel took over. 

The picture is so opaque though. Did the stadium money go in to our coffers ? It seems Mel didn’t pay cash for the stadium, he borrowed some of money from MSD so one presumes he owes MSD. Yet We are we in debt to MSD .. have they been effectively our AND Mels  bankers ? .. in other words rather than running up an overdraft with a Bank ( they can be very hard nosed about lending to loss making companies ) We have been using MSD to pay that 30 million + shortfall and paying high rates for the privilege. I’d guess Mel may well be in the same position if he borrowed money from them to do the academy and whatever else. 
 

My ST holding Luton Nephew said when they went in to Admin all the ST holders got a list of creditors (Because they too were creditors ) it was a bit odd to see  XYZ catering services owed X quid along with named individual players who’s wages hadn’t been paid at the time of going in to Admin. 

[jono]

17 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

A few years of that is correct but it hasn't been. Even if Mel was putting in £15 million a year of his own money over the last 5 years that's still only £75M. He's says been putting his own money in over the COVID but the rest of the time he hasn't. 

It's easy to say we're paying this and paying that but there has also been income over the last 5 years including the £80 for the stadium.

He's says he's invested, not spent, £200M of his own money into the club. What he has done is leveraged loans against the club, training ground and stadium like the Glaziers did at Man UTD. 

I believe we have the debt because the loans are being serviced by the club, not him, so we owe the money to his creditors.

Yes, I am rapidly coming to this conclusion too .. I suspect it is slightly more complex in that the surety for a lot of the loans will have come from Mel personally .. MSD will be after both DCFC and Mel .. for different amounts .. MSD have their share of the stadium but my guess is that this only covers part of the debt .. the rest will be DCFC and Mel between them but in what proportion .. who knows ! MSD will want us to continue because without DCFC using it the stadium loses value hugely 

[BaaLocks]

54 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Chasing promotion to the Prem 101...

Man bets on red time after time - it keeps coming up black.

Throws enough money on black on one last spin to cover all his losses - it comes up red.

I don't think it went much better for red

[Turnstile]

2 hours ago, 24Charlie said:

This has been discussed on various threads but I think it’s status is key. 
 

Valued at £80+million. If Morris had paid the club the money then we would actually be in profit. 
So why are we circa £60m in the hole. 
 

How have we lost this asset when it hasn’t been paid for?

I’ve read stuff on other threads but I’m not clear on where we sit with it.

 

He already owned the stadium he just transferred it to one of his other companies.whos going to complain though? Has he done anything illegal?

[LazloW]

1 hour ago, archram said:

I have some vague recollection of the stadium being designated a ‘community asset’ so it can only be used to benefit the community?

All that means is that before it could be sold, there has to be an opportunity for ‘the community’ to buy it.

I think the original idea was more for things like community centres or local pubs that, if they were sold and used for something different, might be harmful to the community (and who might be able to cobble the funds together to take over) not necessarily £80m assets.  

[SillyBilly]

Key word Mel uses is "invests". It certainly isn't "gifted". So I am interested to see the verdict when our resident accountants go over the numbers to see what he has actually done. How much cash has he injected into our club...remains to be seen. This £200M he keeps referring to and the media has picked up on, in the fullness of time we will see what that number actually translates to for the club, not his own "investment". The legacy of potentially (I use the word potentially to reserve judgement for the final outcome) separating club and stadium will ultimately define Mel's tenure. I am not impressed at the moment it has to be said.