Louie Sibley

[Ambitious]

20 minutes ago, Day said:

Where’s this come from? Wouldn’t make any sense not to.

Even if Warne didn’t want him you would match his current contract, then say you’re backup at best. As a player at Sibley’s age and experience you would assume he’ll go elsewhere, then we get the compensation.

Depends on the contract, we will never know for sure but if, as I suspect, the value was in excess £2m then you’ve got commit to paying him that again. 

Assuming to match the terms, you have to match the overall contract value. 

[Day]

20 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Depends on the contract, we will never know for sure but if, as I suspect, the value was in excess £2m then you’ve got commit to paying him that again. 

Assuming to match the terms, you have to match the overall contract value. 

That’s the gamble, however you stack the odds in your favour by making it obvious he has no future here and this is just protecting the clubs compensation. 

Sibley wouldn’t be short of offers for a £1m compensation if that’s the figure you mentioned earlier.

[Returning ram]

2 hours ago, Day said:

That’s the gamble, however you stack the odds in your favour by making it obvious he has no future here and this is just protecting the clubs compensation. 

Sibley wouldn’t be short of offers for a £1m compensation if that’s the figure you mentioned earlier.

Let's say he is on 15k per week (figures reported at 20k so reasonable assumption) and he is offered that figure on a three year deal. Therefore the potential outlay is therefore close to 2.5m, against a possible return of 1m, IF someone was prepared to pay that.

There hasn't been an influx of transfer rumours around him, so it's a pretty big gamble to take, if he's not in your plans.

 

[Crewton]

Where are these £15-20k/week for Sibley's contract coming from? There's no way that he was awarded a contract of that value aged 19 after 10 albeit impressive performances at the end of the 19/20 season. The likes of Salary Sport have him at £8K, which sounds far more plausible.

[Rich3478]

Thought we were capped at 12k a couple of years ago? That was always mentioned for hourihane but never sibley 

[maydrakin]

2 minutes ago, Rich3478 said:

Thought we were capped at 12k a couple of years ago? That was always mentioned for hourihane but never sibley 

That was only for new contracts handed out.  Sibley’s contract was a legacy from the previous regime.

[Rich3478]

3 minutes ago, maydrakin said:

That was only for new contracts handed out.  Sibley’s contract was a legacy from the previous regime.

Fair enough, I presumed everyone was out of contract for some reason

[Ambitious]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

Where are these £15-20k/week for Sibley's contract coming from? There's no way that he was awarded a contract of that value aged 19 after 10 albeit impressive performances at the end of the 19/20 season. The likes of Salary Sport have him at £8K, which sounds far more plausible.

When the accounts were released we had a wage bill of £17.2m which noted 42% first team wage bill in relation to turnover (£8.6m). However, the 42% / £8.6m didn’t include Bird, Knight and Sibley who, significantly, were on legacy contracts. It also didn’t include a number of other players: Cashin & Thompson who were probably on decent wages. It means that either our off the field staff are paid supremely well, even more so considering the directors weren’t paid, or that the wages to those three in particular are far from significant. 

I’ve said based on general rule of thumb figures that first-team costs generally run at 70% of the club’s overall figure. I’d suspect our wage bill to be roughly £12m for the 23/24 when factoring all first team players which leaves £3.4m unaccounted for. If you use that same rule of thumb for playing staff.. it means the average annual wage of non-playing staff at Derby is £44k a year. I suspect shop workers, admin, chefs, etc aren’t clearing that kind of money. 

There is no way to know for certain but taking in all the evidence then my best guess is that Sibley is on a minimum £10k a week (£520k per annum) more likely to be much higher especially when considering bonuses. 

Someone at Derby is making a lot of money, anyway. Knight, Bird and Sibs seem the most likely party. Pearce might be making a decent wage too, as might the management team (£1m per annum?) I would guess at the legacy contracts handed down and Sibs signed his right after his breakthrough year on a four year deal. We know from court records that Bogle at 18 was being paid £9500 a week. It’s not unthinkable that Sibs is on £15k, perhaps £20k. 

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

When the accounts were released we had a wage bill of £17.2m which noted 42% first team wage bill in relation to turnover (£8.6m). However, the 42% / £8.6m didn’t include Bird, Knight and Sibley who, significantly, were on legacy contracts. It also didn’t include a number of other players: Cashin & Thompson who were probably on decent wages. It means that either our off the field staff are paid supremely well, even more so considering the directors weren’t paid, or that the wages to those three in particular are far from significant. 

I’ve said based on general rule of thumb figures that first-team costs generally run at 70% of the club’s overall figure. I’d suspect our wage bill to be roughly £12m for the 23/24 when factoring all first team players which leaves £3.4m unaccounted for. If you use that same rule of thumb for playing staff.. it means the average annual wage of non-playing staff at Derby is £44k a year. I suspect shop workers, admin, chefs, etc aren’t clearing that kind of money. 

There is no way to know for certain but taking in all the evidence then my best guess is that Sibley is on a minimum £10k a week (£520k per annum) more likely to be much higher especially when considering bonuses. 

Someone at Derby is making a lot of money, anyway. Knight, Bird and Sibs seem the most likely party. Pearce might be making a decent wage too, as might the management team (£1m per annum?) I would guess at the legacy contracts handed down and Sibs signed his right after his breakthrough year on a four year deal. We know from court records that Bogle at 18 was being paid £9500 a week. It’s not unthinkable that Sibs is on £15k, perhaps £20k. 

It's a bit of a stretch - that's an awful lot of assumptions required to be correct in order for your theory to work. We signed Bielek in August 2019 from a top PL club after he'd had a highly successful season at Charlton in L1 and he was reported to be on £20K/wk. I just don't see Sibley going from an Academy salary to the same sort of figure that Bielek was paid. £1m a year at 19 in the championship? It doesn't seem credible to me, sorry.

[Ambitious]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

It's a bit of a stretch - that's an awful lot of assumptions required to be correct in order for your theory to work. We signed Bielek in August 2019 from a top PL club after he'd had a highly successful season at Charlton in L1 and he was reported to be on £20K/wk. I just don't see Sibley going from an Academy salary to the same sort of figure that Bielek was paid. £1m a year at 19 in the championship? It doesn't seem credible to me, sorry.

Whenever you talk about a players wages there are always going to be assumptions required and it’s impossible to know. As far as I’m aware there is no club or company in the country that detail their employees earnings. 

Working in the facts:

Derby County wages paid - £17.2m
Playing Staff - 59
Non-Playing Staff - 118

First Team SCMP costs - £8.6m.

Balance - £8.6m to accommodate Warne & Co, Pearce, Knight, Bird, Cashin, Thompson, Odoruh & Rooney. The rest of the non-playing staff. 

Assuming £35k p/a average for the rest of the non playing staff you’re looking at roughly £4m there. 

£1.5m for Warne, Barker, Hamshaw and Warrington. 

Pearce, who knows, £250-300k a year? maybe more. 

It leaves roughly £2.8m in the pot for under-21 players. The majority of which will be Knight, Sibley and Bird - account for £1m for the balance and £1.8m on them and split down the middle: £12k a week roughly. 

Edited June 1 by Ambitious

[Day]

3 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Whenever you talk about a players wages there are always going to be assumptions required and it’s impossible to know. As far as I’m aware there is no club or company in the country that detail their employees earnings. 

Working in the facts:

Derby County wages paid - £17.2m
Playing Staff - 59
Non-Playing Staff - 118

First Team SCMP costs - £8.6m.

Balance - £8.6m to accommodate Warne & Co, Pearce, Knight, Bird, Cashin, Thompson, Odoruh & Rooney. The rest of the non-playing staff. 

Assuming £35k p/a average for the rest of the non playing staff you’re looking at roughly £4m there. 

£1.5m for Warne, Barker, Hamshaw and Warrington. 

Pearce, who knows, £250-300k a year? maybe more. 

It leaves roughly £2.8m in the pot for under-21 players. The majority of which will be Knight, Sibley and Bird - account for £1m for the balance and £1.8m on them and split down the middle: £12k a week roughly. 

Out the 3, I can see Sibley being on the least. 12k sounds more reasonable than the 20k which was being suggested.

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Day said:

Out the 3, I can see Sibley being on the least. 12k sounds more reasonable than the 20k which was being suggested.

In fairness, that’s taking into account the non-playing staff (roughly 115) are earning £4m - without the costs of the management team and Pearce. I suspect that’s seriously over-egged. 

To put it into context, Burton Albion have a wage bill of £4.8m with 242 staff and that includes the football operation. 

Maybe our groundsmen earn more than their first team players, but doubtful. 

As I said previously, we’re never going to know what Sibley is on but with our wage bill being relatively high and SCMP relatively so low… there is a lot of money going somewhere within the club so it wouldn’t surprise me. Sibley also signed at the most perfect time, we had a ton of interest in him and he had just broke into the first team and had an almost flawless start. Mel was still spending money. 

How and where we are spending money is almost the elephant in the room: Sunderland during their promotion season from League One, which likely includes bonus payments, spent £16.1m on 572 staff. We, on our first year out of administration, spent £17.2m on 177 staff. They had more ‘football’ staff than us too, albeit only slightly. 

For me, it really doesn’t add up and the only way I can make any sense of it is that Sibley, Bird and Knight on legacy contracts were incredibly well paid. The other would be the management staff are really well paid among the best in the EFL and lastly that Stephen Pearce earns an unbelievable amount of money - £1-1.5m per annum. 

[Gerry Daly]

Surely we must have offered Sibley a much reduced contract or he wouldn't be considering going to Rotherham(if that's actually true of course) There is no way Rotherham will be offering anything like what he was on here - whatever that was. They are a very small club that's just been relegated to league 1    

[SSD]

I'm very confident he will sign a new deal. Smart to keep options open until the last moment, you never know if another club offers silly money and you can't turn it down.

I know Warne has tried his hardest to replace him in the team with new wing backs but Sibley's still better than Elder and Ward defensively. Credit to him, he has shown his versatility and he's a great squad player at Championship level. 

No doubt he'll be offered a reduce wage but it's not exactly a 50% pay cut. I'd have to consider a pay cut in my job but if there's nothing else on the table, I'd sign it.

[Macintosh]

Salarysport is the only site to give an indication of our wages for the first-team playing squad and has consistently stated Sibley's is £8,000 a week, Bird's £7,900, Cashin's £3,600 and Thompson's £3,000. It did show Knight as our second-highest earner at £10,000 and now £15,000 at Bristol, becoming their now-highest-earning player. Bird could expect a similar jump. Cashin's contract will likely push him close to if not exceeding double figures and I'd guess Mendez-Laing's wages were doubled on the signing of his new contract. Lewis Dobbin suggests he got a £31,000 a week increase when returning to Everton from his loan spell here. 

The wages it stated for first-team was collectively £7,873,840 in 2023, and £8,823,360 for this year. It is often wrong, I noticed by as much as £12 million in the case of Blackburn Rovers two seasons ago. You take their site with a pinch of salt or the best indication of what the wage bill is likely to be, minus bonuses and certainly no indication of what agents suck out. We do know the £91,000 a week Rooney was on was right and we were chipping in £45,000 of that. And that Frank Lampard was costly in many ways, also having the star player activated by 32Red to boost his income.

The information available regarding football managers getting paid, the problem Graham Potter has finding another job because of his 5-year £11.1m Chelsea contract and being the fourth best paid there is, behind Diego Simeone's £30m, Pep Guardiola's £20m and Jurgen Klopp's once £16m is not wrong, and they will be bonuses to add. Paul Warne would have cost the club's accounts a fair chunk in compensation, possibly into millions that is not getting mentioned.

[Ram1988]

10 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Salarysport is the only site to give an indication of our wages for the first-team playing squad and has consistently stated Sibley's is £8,000 a week, Bird's £7,900, Cashin's £3,600 and Thompson's £3,000. It did show Knight as our second-highest earner at £10,000 and now £15,000 at Bristol, becoming their now-highest-earning player. Bird could expect a similar jump. Cashin's contract will likely push him close to if not exceeding double figures and I'd guess Mendez-Laing's wages were doubled on the signing of his new contract. Lewis Dobbin suggests he got a £31,000 a week increase when returning to Everton from his loan spell here. 

The wages it stated for first-team was collectively £7,873,840 in 2023, and £8,823,360 for this year. It is often wrong, I noticed by as much as £12 million in the case of Blackburn Rovers two seasons ago. You take their site with a pinch of salt or the best indication of what the wage bill is likely to be, minus bonuses and certainly no indication of what agents suck out. We do know the £91,000 a week Rooney was on was right and we were chipping in £45,000 of that. And that Frank Lampard was costly in many ways, also having the star player activated by 32Red to boost his income.

The information available regarding football managers getting paid, the problem Graham Potter has finding another job because of his 5-year £11.1m Chelsea contract and being the fourth best paid there is, behind Diego Simeone's £30m, Pep Guardiola's £20m and Jurgen Klopp's once £16m is not wrong, and they will be bonuses to add. Paul Warne would have cost the club's accounts a fair chunk in compensation, possibly into millions that is not getting mentioned.

If Sibley was on 8k a week surely we haven't offered him a reduced salary with his new contract. 10/12k sounds a fair now we are in the championship? Maybe a clause that will reduce by x% IF we get relegated.

[Jimbo Ram]

Sure I read somewhere that he was on c8k.

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

Salarysport is the only site to give an indication of our wages for the first-team playing squad and has consistently stated Sibley's is £8,000 a week, Bird's £7,900, Cashin's £3,600 and Thompson's £3,000. It did show Knight as our second-highest earner at £10,000 and now £15,000 at Bristol, becoming their now-highest-earning player. Bird could expect a similar jump. Cashin's contract will likely push him close to if not exceeding double figures and I'd guess Mendez-Laing's wages were doubled on the signing of his new contract. Lewis Dobbin suggests he got a £31,000 a week increase when returning to Everton from his loan spell here. 

The wages it stated for first-team was collectively £7,873,840 in 2023, and £8,823,360 for this year. It is often wrong, I noticed by as much as £12 million in the case of Blackburn Rovers two seasons ago. You take their site with a pinch of salt or the best indication of what the wage bill is likely to be, minus bonuses and certainly no indication of what agents suck out. We do know the £91,000 a week Rooney was on was right and we were chipping in £45,000 of that. And that Frank Lampard was costly in many ways, also having the star player activated by 32Red to boost his income.

The information available regarding football managers getting paid, the problem Graham Potter has finding another job because of his 5-year £11.1m Chelsea contract and being the fourth best paid there is, behind Diego Simeone's £30m, Pep Guardiola's £20m and Jurgen Klopp's once £16m is not wrong, and they will be bonuses to add. Paul Warne would have cost the club's accounts a fair chunk in compensation, possibly into millions that is not getting mentioned.

Much as I liked Lewis Dobbin as a player for us if he really, truly got a pay rise of £31k per week over and above anything he got with us then no wonder Everton, the PL, football generally in the UK is a financial shambles.