The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[maxjam]

24 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I don't disagree with you. But none of that answers why world governments have tanked their economies, or why excess mortality is through the roof since q2 last year. 

There's an issue with sensationalism in the media, but it long predates covid. I don't know about US media politics, but is CNN just the flip side of Fox Media? 

Oh yeah its not just limited to one news station/political party - everyone does its cos it generates money, power or both.  It is killing society however as we're forever being told the other side is evil.  We're being manipulated and shepherded into boxes and taught to despise people that don't agree with us rather than focus on what we do have in common. 

As for covid, I think we all agree that the first lockdown was warranted but as time has gone on not only have the goal posts have moved but they continue to move.  IMO politicians, big corp and the media gained a lot of power and money during the initial outbreak and its been in their interests to prolong the pandemic ever since. 

Does it really matter if a country has been financially ruined for example?  The rich can even make money betting against economies anyway and move to some sunny tax haven to avoid any fallout. 

What we really need is someone to give us the truth, for politicians to ensure we get our freedoms back and for those that have made millions/billions throughout the pandemic to pay their share.  I'm fairly certain non of that is going to happen though.

[Gone]

4 minutes ago, Spanish said:

this is my view I am not getting into the tennis that was played in the first version.  

I read that Sweden changed direction after the first wave because they recognised it was wrong

I read that brazil are in a terrible position because the leader is a denier.

I believe that wearing masks and applying other controls has saved many lives of those who required hospital treatment.

That’s fair enough Spanish, I didn’t really want to engage in this thread again either but some decided to tag me into a quote, call me out and apparently belittle my opinion all out of the blue. When that happens I’ll debate back with my opinion,  if others don’t like it or disagree than they can respond and I’ll respond back. I stand by my opinion on Covid and what we’ve done to combat it. 

 

[Stive Pesley]

20 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I didn’t really want to engage in this thread again either but some decided to tag me into a quote, call me out and apparently belittle my opinion all out of the blue.

Sorry Texas - i didn't mean to belittle your opinion, it was meant tongue in cheek if anything, as I saw the news article about Sweden and remembered the argument from a couple of months back.

As with almost everything about this god forsaken pandemic, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Right now I'm feeling very optimistic that the UK is finally reaping the benefit of the hellish lockdowns we've been through. Huge amounts of people vaccinated and infections/deaths/hospitalisations driven right down. You say you'd still rather be in Sweden's shoes - I disagree. I don't hold it against you, and I do understand your argument ?

[Gone]

Just now, Stive Pesley said:

Sorry Texas - i didn't mean to belittle your opinion, it was meant tongue in cheek if anything, as I saw the news article about Sweden and remembered the argument from a couple of months back.

As with almost everything about this god forsaken pandemic, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Right now I'm feeling very optimistic that the UK is finally reaping the benefit of the hellish lockdowns we've been through. Huge amounts of people vaccinated and infections/deaths/hospitalisations driven right down. You say you'd still rather be in Sweden's shoes - I disagree. I don't hold it against you, and I do understand your argument ?

Cheers mate and no worries ??

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

If you followed the “experts” simulations we would have all been dead by Christmas also you can make stats for any narrative just like our “experts did” 

Ps Do you want any more evidence on the UK variant or are these ok?

Anyway life’s returning to normal and all this will be a distant memory for those who let it be, if that doesn’t suit some then though poo. 

Oh right, so you are saying that it was no more harmful than other strains because once you got it, it was no worse than others.

But as the first paragraph in your first link says, it had increased transmission.

So it's clearly more harmful as more people get it. I can't remember anything being said about the Kent variant being more deadly than the original one, it was always it's increased transmission that was the given danger.

The expert predictions in September pretty much came true regarding case numbers and hospitalisations too.

Edited April 14, 2021 by ariotofmyown

[ariotofmyown]

50 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Sorry Texas - i didn't mean to belittle your opinion, it was meant tongue in cheek if anything, as I saw the news article about Sweden and remembered the argument from a couple of months back.

As with almost everything about this god forsaken pandemic, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Right now I'm feeling very optimistic that the UK is finally reaping the benefit of the hellish lockdowns we've been through. Huge amounts of people vaccinated and infections/deaths/hospitalisations driven right down. You say you'd still rather be in Sweden's shoes - I disagree. I don't hold it against you, and I do understand your argument ?

And it's not just @TexasRam opinion on Sweden. It became the default country to mention for most lockdown/covid sceptics and still is, even when it's death rate is far worse than neighbouring countries.

[Gone]

10 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

The expert predictions in September pretty much came true regarding case numbers and hospitalisations too

They didn’t and by a long way, but let’s not go there for the sake of this thread.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by TexasRam

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

And it's not just @TexasRam opinion on Sweden. It became the default country to mention for most lockdown/covid sceptics and still is, even when it's death rate is far worse than neighbouring countries.

Add Florida and Texas as well. Thing is there is absolutely no argument back on why these places who haven’t lockdown, removed restrictions haven’t seen any adverse reactions leading to the conclusion lockdowns etc have been a complete waste of time. We’ve done this to death anyway so let’s leave it. 

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So it's clearly more harmful as more people get it. I can't remember anything being said about the Kent variant being more deadly than the original one, it was always it's increased transmission that was the given danger.

Edited April 14, 2021 by RoyMac5
From The Telegraph article

[ariotofmyown]

16 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

They didn’t and by a long way, but let’s not go there for the sake of this thread.  

Just for other people's interest who might be reading this and think the predictions in September were totally false...

They predicted 50k cases a day in October, with 200 deaths a day after that, unless action was taken. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54234084 These predictions were widely ridiculed.

The UK introduced more restrictions again including the Tiers and we peaked at 26k cases per day in October. Even though will then had a full lockdown in November, there were sadly already so many cases that 3 days during November had over 500 deaths.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Oh yeah its not just limited to one news station/political party - everyone does its cos it generates money, power or both.  It is killing society however as we're forever being told the other side is evil.  We're being manipulated and shepherded into boxes and taught to despise people that don't agree with us rather than focus on what we do have in common. 

Great post.

As @GboroRam mentioned though, is it worse than before?

In the past, media sensationalism taught us to despise those who are different. Now that is mostly no longer acceptable, we are taught to despise those with different opinions. It's progress of sorts as at least people can change their minds!

Maybe people have to stand up and reject sensationalism, but I'm not sure that's possible. Social Media has just amplified this massively as it's full of nobodies looking to earn money from extreme views. There is even less of a filter these days.  This also drowns out moderate voices looking for compromise.

Heard an interesting radio programme a few months back about gerrymandering in the US, where election boundaries were kept being redrawn to sure up either sides support.

So originally, you may have two election areas, both mixed between rich and poor, black and white etc. To win an election, a candidate had to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters.

Over time, boundaries were redrawn to end up with one party's voters in one area and vice versa. This then meant the winning party was a given and the only challenge came from within the own party, attempting to push further from the centre ground towards the extreme.

This seems to be how the media also seems to operate these days, perhaps as the are so driven by commercial need to sensationalise. Think we need the BBC more than ever, but one that can always provide an unbiased factual account of what us going on. Maybe the news could be replaced with More or Less?

[maxjam]

25 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Great post.

As @GboroRam mentioned though, is it worse than before?

In the past, media sensationalism taught us to despise those who are different. Now that is mostly no longer acceptable, we are taught to despise those with different opinions. It's progress of sorts as at least people can change their minds!

Maybe people have to stand up and reject sensationalism, but I'm not sure that's possible. Social Media has just amplified this massively as it's full of nobodies looking to earn money from extreme views. There is even less of a filter these days.  This also drowns out moderate voices looking for compromise.

Heard an interesting radio programme a few months back about gerrymandering in the US, where election boundaries were kept being redrawn to sure up either sides support.

So originally, you may have two election areas, both mixed between rich and poor, black and white etc. To win an election, a candidate had to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters.

Over time, boundaries were redrawn to end up with one party's voters in one area and vice versa. This then meant the winning party was a given and the only challenge came from within the own party, attempting to push further from the centre ground towards the extreme.

This seems to be how the media also seems to operate these days, perhaps as the are so driven by commercial need to sensationalise. Think we need the BBC more than ever, but one that can always provide an unbiased factual account of what us going on. Maybe the news could be replaced with More or Less?

Worse, definitely worse.  Driven in part by 24/7 news outlets that have to turn a profit and social media. 

I agree with a lot of what you said and would like to expand upon others but this isn't the thread for that and I'd only be putting the effort in to write an off topic post that may end up being removed. 

I think regarding covid however, as we emerge from the pandemic we really need to start pushing back against the Government, big business and the media now.  In an ideal world we'd be given the truth, get our freedoms restored, learn lessons for the future and have those that profited from the crisis or exploited it in some way pay their dues.

Edited April 14, 2021 by maxjam

[ariotofmyown]

27 minutes ago, maxjam said:

and have those that profited from the crisis or exploited it in some way pay their dues.

Good to see Cameron is gonna be investigated, but worried they will use to to ignore the Covid scams that have gone on inside the government.

In terms of rebalancing industries after Covid, perhaps tax levels can be changed for a while. More for the companies who thrived through lockdown, less for those who didn't.

[Spanish]

29 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Good to see Cameron is gonna be investigated, but worried they will use to to ignore the Covid scams that have gone on inside the government.

In terms of rebalancing industries after Covid, perhaps tax levels can be changed for a while. More for the companies who thrived through lockdown, less for those who didn't.

depends on whether those that thrived were due directly to covid or whether it was good management v lazy half arsed and slow.  Wouldn't want successful businesses punished because they were successful 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

depends on whether those that thrived were due directly to covid or whether it was good management v lazy half arsed and slow.  Wouldn't want successful businesses punished because they were successful 

Indeed. Although it seems a stretch to think that current incumbents only used genuine and successful business people to make money out of Covid.

[Archied]

6 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Good to see Cameron is gonna be investigated, but worried they will use to to ignore the Covid scams that have gone on inside the government.

In terms of rebalancing industries after Covid, perhaps tax levels can be changed for a while. More for the companies who thrived through lockdown, less for those who didn't.

Perhaps the well of folders could have pensions furloughed too ?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Archied

[Gone]

(If legit) Remind anyone of the BBC, Sky news etc etc.....

 

[richinspain]

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

(If legit) Remind anyone of the BBC, Sky news etc etc.....

 

No idea if true or not, but do their figures coincide with other networks? Either theirs are completely different to the rest of the networks, or all the networks are in it together?

[maxjam]

Beat me to it @TexasRam, I was about to post the full version which provides a bit more context.

I don't blame CNN for the bias, they all do it - it is nice to hear 'from the horses mouth' that they do it though rather than try to convince you you're going mad when you accuse them of it!

Regardless, the point for posting isn't the bias or the politics its the fear mongering over covid for profit.  The previous video from Project Veritas had the same guy saying that after people had recovered from covid fatigue they will be pushing climate change heavily as 'fear sells'.  So look forwards to that ?

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by maxjam

[Gone]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

Beat me to it @TexasRam, I was about to post the full version which provides a bit more context.

I don't blame CNN for the bias, they all do it - it is nice to hear 'from the horses mouth' that they do it though rather than try to convince you you're going mad when you accuse them of it!

Regardless the point for posting isn't the bias or the politics its the fear mongering over covid for profit.  The previous video from Project Veritas had the same guy saying that after people had recovered from covid fatigue they will be pushing climate change heavily as 'fear sells'.  So look forwards to that ?

 

It’s a vicious circle, MSM overhype, government reacts as they’re scared not too do anything, MSM overhypes more, government reacts more, and on it goes. I’m sure most news networks have been waiting for an event like this to happen for ages and couldn’t wait to unleash the mass hysteria all for their own ratings (and ultimately gain). Anyway as you say (I’ve gone all Richard Keogh) nice to know we’re not totally crazy conspiracy theorists after all.