The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[PistoldPete]

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

"...Although 469 deaths were because of Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained and the ONS does not break down the remaining deaths by cause.

Since the beginning of June, the ONS has recorded nearly 10,000 more deaths than the five-year average – around 1,089 a week – none of which is linked to Covid. The figure is more than three times the number of people who died because of the virus over the same period, which stood at 2,811.

Even analysis that takes into account ageing population changes has identified a substantial ongoing excess.

There were 103 Covid deaths in England on August 11 and the seven-day average is currently around 111 fatalities per day.

Questioned by The Telegraph, the Department of Health admitted it had asked the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities to look into the figures and had discovered that the majority were linked to largely preventable heart and stroke and diabetes-related conditions.

Many appointments and treatments were cancelled as the NHS battled the pandemic throughout 2020 and last year, leading to a huge backlog that the health service is still struggling to bring down."

 

What has that to do with vaccines?

Our NHS is pretty poo really and it’s getting worse. You can blame COVID lockdowns, cold winters, hot summers anything you like.

 

The truth though is our NHS is not as good as people like to think. 

 

[JoetheRam]

31 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Our NHS is pretty poo really and it’s getting worse. You can blame COVID lockdowns, cold winters, hot summers anything you like.

 

The truth though is our NHS is not as good as people like to think. 

 

In most cases in life you get what you pay for.

We spend less as a percentage of GDP than the rest of the G7 and if adjusting for Purchasing Power we spend less than the EU14.

So it's not terrible, but it's not as good as it could be either and there's a million and one reasons for that but in the end it nearly always comes down to money.

Unfortunately, voters in this country tend to think public services should be world beating, but also don't want to pay to fund them.

[PistoldPete]

25 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

In most cases in life you get what you pay for.

We spend less as a percentage of GDP than the rest of the G7 and if adjusting for Purchasing Power we spend less than the EU14.

So it's not terrible, but it's not as good as it could be either and there's a million and one reasons for that but in the end it nearly always comes down to money.

Unfortunately, voters in this country tend to think public services should be world beating, but also don't want to pay to fund them.

Money is part of the problem. How it is spent is another. 

[Stive Pesley]

6 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Haha what a great reply, “now we have realised we were totally wrong about something, let’s not highlight it please”

Where did i say that?? 

 

6 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Sorry but after all the comments of “stupid” “idot” “selfish” “clown” etc etc over debating that is was all a huge mistake at the time to us lockdown, I will now quite happily reveal in that I was absolutely on the money. 

If it makes you feel better then fill your boots. Does it help?

I'm just trying to be a grown up and look for something good to come out of all this. Lots of lessons to be learned and the only thing that matters is that we have a better response next time. Lockdowns to some degree were essential and saved countless lives. But did we lock down too late or too early, did we lock down for too long, did we enforce lockdown rules that we didn't have to etc etc

Somewhere in all of this data is the answer to what we got wrong and what we got right and what we could have done better

That's all

 

 

[Gone]

24 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Lockdowns to some degree were essential and saved countless lives

No they weren’t and no they didn’t

[Gone]

28 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

If it makes you feel better then fill your boots. Does it help?

Helps me, it was plainly obvious to any normal person not mind controlled by the MSM that they didn’t work. It also helps if we make it loud and clear lockdowns should never happen again 

[De22Ram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Money is part of the problem. How it is spent is another. 

Exactly! Never get why each individual trusts bids sepreate when buying and negotiates different prices! Why not buy in bulk across the whole country? 
 

The fact is the nhs is a sieve, whatever you put in wont be enough as there is no joined up thinking!

Needs to be a cross party plan for the nhs so it has long term thinking and not used as a political tool to gain votes!

[Archied]

9 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I just hope that we all stop with this "I was right, you were wrong" smug nonsense and look at it like the intelligent humans we all claim to be. Not just "oh look we're now seeing loads of excess deaths - I told you lockdown was wrong", because it's all hindsight and clearly if we'd not had lockdowns there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths, and if we'd not had vaccines there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths/maxed out hospitals/crippled public services

There needs to be a holistic (and as Max crucially says independent) review of the whole response AND the aftermath,  with the main purpose being to inform the optimum strategy for handling future pandemics (rather than culture wars point-scoring). Everything else is just noise

 

Hmmmmm , I don’t remember much of those who may be starting to be proven right being regarded as or treated like intelligent HUMANS ,, they / we were bombarded with insults of ,stupid , tin foil hat wearers , sub human s who were granny killers and didn’t give a jot for other lives or deaths blah blah blah , but hey I don’t expect many to openly accept that they’re treatment of others not agreeing with the narrative was very wrong , best I can hope for is people wake up and never let this stuff happen again 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, De22Ram said:

Exactly! Never get why each individual trusts bids sepreate when buying and negotiates different prices! Why not buy in bulk across the whole country? 
 

The fact is the nhs is a sieve, whatever you put in wont be enough as there is no joined up thinking!

Needs to be a cross party plan for the nhs so it has long term thinking and not used as a political tool to gain votes!

Something has to be done, but is there political will?

 

[uttoxram75]

I managed to withstand extreme pressure from my GP, friends, family and work colleagues to get vaccinated. I decided not to. I did not preach to anyone else about not having it. I merely stated my case and left it at that. Some of my circle had to have it for various reasons, work, essential travel etc.

I feel my decision was justified as I have had covid, very mild symptoms, (a couple of years ago it would have been classed as a bad cold, not quite man-flu!) I kept away from people, had 4 days off work and dosed up on honey and lemon warm drinks.

Most of the people I know have had several cases of covid, far worse than mine, even after multiple vaccinations.

One thing that does frighten me, many people seem to have long term stuff going on, feeling knackered, shortness of breath many weeks after covid etc, all fully vaccinated and boosted.

I hope and pray that my initial feelings that the vaccines were rushed out without full and proper trials was completely wrong and no long term issues affect my loved ones and friends who did have it.

If the worse happens I will never forgive myself that I didn't do more to try and persuade them not to take it.

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Helps me, it was plainly obvious to any normal person not mind controlled by the MSM that they didn’t work. It also helps if we make it loud and clear lockdowns should never happen again 

Well I'm glad it helps you to think that you are normal

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I managed to withstand extreme pressure from my GP, friends, family and work colleagues to get vaccinated. I decided not to. I did not preach to anyone else about not having it. I merely stated my case and left it at that. Some of my circle had to have it for various reasons, work, essential travel etc.

I feel my decision was justified as I have had covid, very mild symptoms, (a couple of years ago it would have been classed as a bad cold, not quite man-flu!) I kept away from people, had 4 days off work and dosed up on honey and lemon warm drinks.

Most of the people I know have had several cases of covid, far worse than mine, even after multiple vaccinations.

One thing that does frighten me, many people seem to have long term stuff going on, feeling knackered, shortness of breath many weeks after covid etc, all fully vaccinated and boosted.

I hope and pray that my initial feelings that the vaccines were rushed out without full and proper trials was completely wrong and no long term issues affect my loved ones and friends who did have it.

If the worse happens I will never forgive myself that I didn't do more to try and persuade them not to take it.

 

 

Eh?

[uttoxram75]

4 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Money is part of the problem. How it is spent is another. 

The money taken out of the system for private profit is the problem. 

You cannot just privatise a well run public owned utility. It would be very unpopular. You have to run it down and make it seem a burden on the taxpayer before you can give it away to the private sector. Where, ironically, most of the profit then goes to non-taxpayers!

[uttoxram75]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Eh?

Read it again Pete. I'm not trying to be controversial, just putting my feelings down as I see it. 

Like I say, I hope beyond hope that I am wrong about the vaccines - virtually everyone I love has had them.

[Norman]

I had the booster jab just before Xmas along with my Mrs who has underlying health conditions. 

She hasn't returned to work since.

[Archied]

25 minutes ago, Norman said:

I had the booster jab just before Xmas along with my Mrs who has underlying health conditions. 

She hasn't returned to work since.

Vaccine issue?

[De22Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Something has to be done, but is there political will?

 

Thats the problem, doesnt seem to be at the mo! They prefer to use the nhs as an election tool, promising this and that and not delivering! Also making money by giving big money contracts to mates, party donors, etc, etc! 
 

I have family and fridnds who work in the nhs, its a great idea and there are areas of it that work well but it needs to be improved and "improved" not meaning privitised! It sometimes seems people see the argument for improving the nhs as black n white! You either want to privatise in which people get offended or you think its the dogs ball sack with your head is in the sand! 
 

A start in my opinion would be joined up thinking from top to bottom, politians to individul trusts! I love the nhs as a theory and think its one of the best things about this country but it needs some work to make it better! 
 

Doctors surgery being managed by the nhs would be a start as right now there subcontracted out but the gatekeepers for other nhs services! 

[bcnram]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Something has to be done, but is there political will?

 

Maybe the headline should be '87 year old used by family to score political point' as it looks like he was on the patio just outside the house. Looks like BS. 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by bcnram

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, bcnram said:

Maybe the headline should be '87 year old used by family to score political point' as it looks like he was on the patio just outside the house. Looks like BS. 

 

The advice is not to try moving a frail person after a fall. There is nothing political about it… waiting 15 hours for an ambulance is a scandal and people need to stop pretending that the NHS is not in crisis. 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

The advice is not to try moving a frail person after a fall. There is nothing political about it… waiting 15 hours for an ambulance is a scandal and people need to stop pretending that the NHS is not in crisis. 

The man had a number of broken ribs , a broken pelvis and an arm wound ,would have been in very bad pain and moving him would not have been the brightest thing to do as you say 

I’m with you on this , stories like this are not about scoring political points they are about real people and the state our country is in ,not just the NHS , I see nothing in labour that fills me with hope they can or have the will to change things or make better ,just more of the same , let’s be honest labour would have had us locked down harder and longer ,that’s what they were calling for 

there were a very small number of members of Parliament standing up and saying wtf are we doing and fighting to stop the collective insanity of the last two plus years ( though the NHS has been on the verge for years )

we are seeing the biggest shift back to the dark ages of massive wealth and power for the few and poverty and misery for the masses you could imagine,

its a pulling up of the ladder and the middle classes who have been conned into backing it with short term sweetie s don’t even realise the ladder is being pulled up beyond them with them kicked off ,

I know plenty of people on very good salaries now starting to be worried sick about where this is going as it dawns on them that although they may have enough to pay the electric/ gas bill ( unlike many who just CANT pay what they don’t have) they’re mortgage on massively overpriced houses only affordable and so overpriced by cheap borrowing is going to be a different matter on top of that ,

so much of covid policy made not a jot of sense and the same is true of net zero 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Archied