The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Well clearly I made it up. We should do a survey.

Would you prefer to have had near continual restrictions since Mar 2020, with 40k ish deaths (adjusted for population), huge negative impacts to the economy, mental health, schooling etc?

Or a few short, sharp lockdowns where life has often continued as normal and the death toll has been tiny?

I wonder who would win? Would anyone have swapped our disaster for how they dealt with it?

How long are you projecting that these 'short' sharp lockdowns are going to continue for in Australia?

[Archied]

15 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats the level of argument now?

All drugs have side effects, some worse than others and some, as I pointed out, don't show up in the first few weeks.  The MRNA vaccines are new technology and the long term effects are unknown.  When we were told that after the elderly and vulnerable had recieved their shots we could open back up, I was okay with that.  When they dropped it to the over 50s, I was okay with that.  When they offered it to all adults, I was okay with that - personal choice n all that.

Now they are discussing giving it to kids and making life difficult for anyone that doesn't want to take it.  Regardless of whether I have had the jab or not, thats a dangerous move  and imo starts us down a slippery slope.

Yep and when parents are pressured into vaccinating their children because they can’t go on holiday or take them to a restaurant or a park, football match ect ect ect ,the covbots will be telling everyone how it’s for the greater good and their little tarquin and bunty are such wonderful little caring creatures who couldn’t get the jab fast enough to do their bit,,,,, parents / guardians my backside

[maxjam]

Brings a warm glow to your heart...

 

[Bob The Badger]

44 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well obviously I dont get to see every single programme on the BBC but the news programmes that I watch have absolutely no balance whatsoever.

What should I believe though, my own eyes and ears, or someone who heard something on the Nicky Campbell show and thinks that is representative of the BBC as a whole, and who of course also has their own agenda?

Tough call.

You said;  They (the BBC) have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic.

You never said they haven't shown enough balance.

Or, that they have even shown zero balance on the TV news that you watch.

As such I only have to hear one programme that is balanced to know that your statement is utter agenda driven nonsense.

Do you know the Black Swan story?

 

 

[Day]

I don’t know where you all are in this 171 page round 2 battle of the Covid stats.

Bored of it all now, bored of people judging others for wearing a mask or not, bored of people judging others for having the vaccine or not.

I know someone double jabbed that caught Covid and had nothing but a metal taste in her mouth.

Her mum, also double jabbed came close to being admitted to hospital. 

Covid messed me up, truth is, I’m still running at 70% now 3 weeks later having tested positive. 

I won’t disclose my vaccination status, reason being 1) My medical records should not be up for public discussion and 2) Vaccinated or not, you have 2 sides looking to attack or praise your decision.

Your decision.

I’ve seen the your selfish if you choose not to have the vaccine argument, but is it not also selfish to force people into taking a vaccine that they may not feel comfortable taking which basically the vaccine passports are doing. 

Whilst I won’t disclose my thoughts on vaccination, I will say the idea of vaccine passports do not sit right with me at all. 

I will personally choose to avoid any situation where I need to get my phone out to show vaccination status. 

Feel strongly that this is the wrong thing to do, regardless of which government is making the decision.

In many ways, including Covid, you do you, I’ll do me. I won’t judge you, so please don’t judge me.

Saying that, I do think it’s a shame that civil discussions can no longer be had, be it in a workplace, between friends, family or online. 

The division that Covid has created is the worst thing to come from this virus. I’d rank it even higher than Brexit which is probably a great point to end this ranty whiny post.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

You said;  They (the BBC) have offered literally zero balance throughout their whole reporting on the pandemic.

You never said they haven't shown enough balance.

Or, that they have even shown zero balance on the TV news that you watch.

As such I only have to hear one programme that is balanced to know that your statement is utter agenda driven nonsense.

Do you know the Black Swan story?

What is my agenda then?

Think I heard that story mentioned on the BBC but it was called the Swan Of Colour?

[Gaspode]

37 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Better do it quick, the Govt are trying to change the law so you'll get 14yrs in prison...

Gotta love what this country is turning into ?

 

I don't read the Mail and have no intention of starting now, but I suspect the reforms are more to do with the flagrant disregard that a large number of people seem to currently have for the Official Secrets act. Cummings for example - to work in the position he did, he must have signed the OSA, yet is more than happy to appear on prime time news channels telling the world things that should be confidential.

I've worked with numerous government departments and have signed the OSA - in addition to the mandatory Security clearance required, pretty much every department will insist on security training to remind everyone of their responsibilities and what they are allowed to say or do. They all include a written commitment to not disclose any information that could be considered confidential. The rules are so strict that I'm not even allowed to tell people in my own organisation about the work I'm doing. Quite how Cummings and numerous ex-MPS are allowed to sing like canaries is astonishing and if a review of the OSA means they can lock someone like Cummings up for 14 years, then bring it on....

[Mostyn6]

Sadly @David the modern way is always to divide and conquer. Whilst the masses are arguing with each other, nobody notices the true villains doing what they’re doing. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, David said:

I don’t know where you all are in this 171 page round 2 battle of the Covid stats.

Think we pretty much got it all sorted!

Hope you get better soon, sounds horrible. Just heard one of my best mates is really bad with it too.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

How long are you projecting that these 'short' sharp lockdowns are going to continue for in Australia?

Guess until they get vaccination numbers up. There gonna have to continue for a long time yet to match our level of disruption. And still to keep a fraction of our levels of deaths.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Better do it quick, the Govt are trying to change the law so you'll get 14yrs in prison...

Gotta love what this country is turning into ?

 

If the law actually ends up being "prison for embarrassing" the government, then the courts are going to be very busy. The person who filmed Johnson crashing into that school kid when playing rugby will be in trouble.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Thats the level of argument now?

Nah, I was just messing about. Apologies.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Guess until they get vaccination numbers up. There gonna have to continue for a long time yet to match our level of disruption. And still to keep a fraction of our levels of deaths.

Obviously nobody wants to see any deaths from Covid but if I'm given the choice of some people dying but getting my freedom back now, or hardly anyone dying but the Government being able to impose a lockdown whenever they wanted with no clear dates if when them powers would be removed, I'll be honest and admit I'm taking the first option.

Who knows, if somebody I know had been affected by the virus I may feel differently but I still feel very detached from it. Nobody I know has died and every member of my family that has had it have been ill for a few days at the most.

Right now though I'm seeing my kids lives being ruined and them missing out on many of the things that I took for granted when I was young.

[ariotofmyown]

19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Obviously nobody wants to see any deaths from Covid but if I'm given the choice of some people dying but getting my freedom back now, or hardly anyone dying but the Government being able to impose a lockdown whenever they wanted with no clear dates if when them powers would be removed, I'll be honest and admit I'm taking the first option.

Who knows, if somebody I know had been affected by the virus I may feel differently but I still feel very detached from it. Nobody I know has died and every member of my family that has had it have been ill for a few days at the most.

Right now though I'm seeing my kids lives being ruined and them missing out on many of the things that I took for granted when I was young.

Fair enough. I guess the key point though is "some people" dying vs "hardly anyone dying".

The range of that "some" is pretty large.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Better do it quick, the Govt are trying to change the law so you'll get 14yrs in prison...

Gotta love what this country is turning into ?

 

This a worrying read too.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/politics-lies-boris-johnson-and-erosion-rule-law

 

[Tamworthram]

28 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Obviously nobody wants to see any deaths from Covid but if I'm given the choice of some people dying but getting my freedom back now, or hardly anyone dying but the Government being able to impose a lockdown whenever they wanted with no clear dates if when them powers would be removed, I'll be honest and admit I'm taking the first option.

Who knows, if somebody I know had been affected by the virus I may feel differently but I still feel very detached from it. Nobody I know has died and every member of my family that has had it have been ill for a few days at the most.

Right now though I'm seeing my kids lives being ruined and them missing out on many of the things that I took for granted when I was young.

I think you have a valid point but I would take issue with the expectation for "clear dates when powers will be removed".

I think there should be clear dates when they should be reviewed but fail to see how a commitment can be given as to when they should be lifted unless someone has a crystal ball and can accurately predict how things will be a specific date in the future. 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Tamworthram said:

I think you have a valid point but I would take issue with the expectation for "clear dates when powers will be removed".

I think there should be clear dates when they should be reviewed but fail to see how a commitment can be given as to when they should be lifted unless someone has a crystal ball and can accurately predict how things will be a specific date in the future. 

Disagree.

When the carrot was dangled with 'get the vaccine and then you can get back to normal' then a target number/percentage should have been set.

As I remember it was 'once the 10 most vulnerable groups had been vaccinated, this of course gave them the leeway to start amending the people that are allegedly vulnerable as more and more people got vaccinated.

[maxjam]

17 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

This a worrying read too.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/politics-lies-boris-johnson-and-erosion-rule-law

 

Similar story in the Telegraph about the dangers from Vaccine Passports;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/21/vaccine-passports-conspiracy-against-freedom/

The Government may not be staging some grand conspiracy to turn Britain into a Chinese-style social credit system, zealously monitoring citizens’ behaviour to permit or prohibit basic rights. But sometimes weakness and incompetence can send a country in a similar direction.

[Tamworthram]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Disagree.

When the carrot was dangled with 'get the vaccine and then you can get back to normal' then a target number/percentage should have been set.

As I remember it was 'once the 10 most vulnerable groups had been vaccinated, this of course gave them the leeway to start amending the people that are allegedly vulnerable as more and more people got vaccinated.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I get your point but what if a new variant emerges that puts more people (or the NHS) at risk and it might be sensible to extend whatever restrictions are in place a little longer? 

I just feels it's a little bit dangerous to commit to a specific date come what may. During the daily conferences I used to find it extremely irritating when a reporter would ask a question like "can you guarantee...."

I guess I'm a little naive in thinking the government don't really want to restrict our lives any longer than they have to (if for no other reason, it's hardly a vote winner).

Edited July 21, 2021 by Tamworthram

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I get your point but what if a new variant emerges that puts more people (or the NHS) at risk and it might be sensible to extend whatever restrictions are in place a little longer? 

I just feels it's a little bit dangerous to commit to a specific date come what may. During the daily conferences I used to find it extremely irritating when a reporter would ask a question like "can you guarantee...."

I guess I'm a little naive in thinking the government don't really want to restrict our lives any longer than they have to (if for no other reason, it's hardly a vote winner).

Either the vaccine works or it doesn't. 

If a new variant comes along that the vaccine doesn't work against then we are completely back to step one.

We have had 16 months now to formulate a plan on how to live with the virus, it appears we put all of our eggs in one basket.

Well that basket now has all the eggs in that the Government said it needed to give us our lives back.

Time to let people make their own decisions and manage their own risk.

Still scared of the virus? Make sure you are vaccinated, continue to social distance and wear a mask. If you're not safe following that simple set of rules then you never will be.