Time for Stretton?

[rammieib]

As much as we like CKR for his passion and desire, strength and so on, it’s clear that the quality isn’t there playing him as a lone striker nor is the quality around him with this style of play.

I think it’s time we did either of these two things:

1) Give Stretton a go up there. Someone who, based on under 23’s, could be more clinical and more likely to have shots on goal. We may lose some of that physical presence but what good is carrying on with the same approach if it isn’t yielding goals. The definition of insanity is ....

2) We’ve got to sacrifice one of the holding midfielders. We know Knight has an engine in there and his ability to get up and down the pitch is vital but we’re one attacking player short right now. This makes it easier for the opposition to defend, especially when they play two holding mids. Bielik to Bird/Shinnie and back again. With one holding mid, it cries out for more offensive play.

Its frustrating watching us thinking it’s not When but if we score, whilst full well knowing if we concede we won’t win the game.

[Srg]

The biggest issue isn’t CKR, it’s more of the second point you made. 

Jason Knight is great. However, his main attributes are energy, tenacity and arriving late. He’s the epitome of a box to box midfielder. He shouldn’t be playing behind the striker. It’s restrictive for him and you’re losing half the attributes he excels at. Furthermore, he doesn’t possess what you need as a number 10. 

A number 10 should have the ability to pick a pass with good vision, the potential to drop a shoulder and get a shot away. He just doesn’t have that. He wants to go close down the nearest man and run beyond. 

We need Knight alongside Bielik, allowing you to pick a 3 in front of a combination of Jozwiak, Lawrence, Ibe, Sibley, Waghorn etc. 

[DRBee]

14 minutes ago, rammieib said:

As much as we like CKR for his passion and desire, strength and so on, it’s clear that the quality isn’t there playing him as a lone striker nor is the quality around him with this style of play.

I think it’s time we did either of these two things:

1) Give Stretton a go up there. Someone who, based on under 23’s, could be more clinical and more likely to have shots on goal. We may lose some of that physical presence but what good is carrying on with the same approach if it isn’t yielding goals. The definition of insanity is ....

2) We’ve got to sacrifice one of the holding midfielders. We know Knight has an engine in there and his ability to get up and down the pitch is vital but we’re one attacking player short right now. This makes it easier for the opposition to defend, especially when they play two holding mids. Bielik to Bird/Shinnie and back again. With one holding mid, it cries out for more offensive play.

Its frustrating watching us thinking it’s not When but if we score, whilst full well knowing if we concede we won’t win the game.

The insanity is expecting CKR to have an effect when he is so isolated .....a lone player upfront makes it too easy for the opposition.

[roboto]

I think, from what has been mentioned in interviews with the coaching staff and how Rooney has approached substitutions since he stopped playing, we are trying to build our attacks around CKRs strengths.

We saw against Wycombe how effective he can be when we get players around him, but the opposition midfield has been stronger in the last couple of games which has isolated him a little and nullified some of his play. Plus the fixtures are coming thick and fast and he is showing fatigue early in games due to our reliance on him and not being able to play as effectively without him.

CKR was unlucky not to get his goal yesterday, he did everything right and with a bit more confidence in the team he will only get better and more involved.

Stretton gives us another option, but unless we are winning comfortably or needing goals I don’t think he’ll get much game time at the moment. I think he’ll get a start against Chorley, as will a lot of the younger players to give some of the main players a much needed rest after such a hectic schedule.

[Tyler Durden]

Who exactly is CKR meant to be holding the ball up for? As if there's no one moving into forward positions to receive a flick or knock down or layoff then he's just pissing in the wind 

[Rammy03]

The problem isn't CKR, he has done the job. The problem is the way we play, we simply don't create enough clear cut chances. We overplay it far too often

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

The problem isn't CKR, he has done the job.

Much though I've warmed to Colin he hasn't done the job - his scoring ability is limited. We are creating chances but who will take them? Although yesterday their goalie had a good game.

[Ellafella]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

As much as we like CKR for his passion and desire, strength and so on, it’s clear that the quality isn’t there playing him as a lone striker nor is the quality around him with this style of play.

I think it’s time we did either of these two things:

1) Give Stretton a go up there. Someone who, based on under 23’s, could be more clinical and more likely to have shots on goal. We may lose some of that physical presence but what good is carrying on with the same approach if it isn’t yielding goals. The definition of insanity is ....

2) We’ve got to sacrifice one of the holding midfielders. We know Knight has an engine in there and his ability to get up and down the pitch is vital but we’re one attacking player short right now. This makes it easier for the opposition to defend, especially when they play two holding mids. Bielik to Bird/Shinnie and back again. With one holding mid, it cries out for more offensive play.

Its frustrating watching us thinking it’s not When but if we score, whilst full well knowing if we concede we won’t win the game.

Not true actually. We saw at least 3 examples yesterday that could’ve resulted in goals:

1. Beat the keeper after a brilliant piece of work by Bucannan {some only scored him a 6!} only for a brilliant clearance by a despairing, diving defender.

2. Released Whitaker with a defence-splitting lobbed pass only for Whittaker to shoot weakly.

3. Headed down for Knight in the box but Knight too slow to get his shot off.

Kazim is doing a great job. We need to push as a team 15 yards further up and support Kazim better. Too early to ditch the plan. It’s working but will bear fruit soon. Plan-do-review not Plan-do-ditch. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

Kazim is doing a great job. We need to push as a team 15 yards further up and support Kazim better. Too early to ditch the plan.

Don't want to ditch the plan but we need a goalscorer up there.

[Ellafella]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Don't want to ditch the plan but we need a goalscorer up there.

Get Sibley on the pitch. Push entire team up 10 yards. Shoot more often. Stop over-passing, get forward in greater numbers as a unit. All things Wazza (& Mac} will be working on. 

[whiteroseram]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

The biggest issue isn’t CKR, it’s more of the second point you made. 

Jason Knight is great. However, his main attributes are energy, tenacity and arriving late. He’s the epitome of a box to box midfielder. He shouldn’t be playing behind the striker. It’s restrictive for him and you’re losing half the attributes he excels at. Furthermore, he doesn’t possess what you need as a number 10. 

A number 10 should have the ability to pick a pass with good vision, the potential to drop a shoulder and get a shot away. He just doesn’t have that. He wants to go close down the nearest man and run beyond. 

We need Knight alongside Bielik, allowing you to pick a 3 in front of a combination of Jozwiak, Lawrence, Ibe, Sibley, Waghorn etc. 

Agree completely. I think for me I'd be giving Sibley another run as the 10, I know he started the season poorly (second season sindrome, being marked out eh game etc) but when he looked his best was when him and Waggy connected well and LS would burst past MW. Given CKR is even more build for that role and interchange, and he has the experiance for LS to learn from, I think him and LS could link up really well given a little time 

[RamNut]

 

[GenBr]

We are too defensive. I agree we definitely don't need two defensive mids - thought we were going to see us change to one last night, but we just moved Knight back with Bielik when SIbley came on. Knight isn't a number 10, but he'd still be in my team - just not stood on the toes of the defenders for the entire match. Last night we also moved Joswiak onto the wrong side  to accommodate Lawrence when we could have just played Waghorn instead and kept them both on their preferred sides.

I would also add that there was such a difference between the way Stoke attacked (as little as they did) and the way we attacked. We tippy tap around the edge of the box constantly looking for an opening (after the entire opposition team has already managed to get back) then send it out wide for a cross into a mostly empty box (despite the fact we are apparently being told to get more bodies into the box now). Stoke on the other hand (when they did decide to attack) were moving and finding space and driving forward rather than standing still waiting for the ball to come to them. Both sides were very poor from an attacking perspective, but our system is still pretty much the same as Cocu-ball as far as I am concerned.

Stretton won't make any difference if the rest of the team continues to play as it is and the management continue with the same tactics as they have been doing.

[sage]

Many of our selection issues are influenced by the crazy schedule of games.

Now we have established ourselves with a CF we can play off we want to play him every game. However he is 34. He has to pace himself through games which means playing Knight as a 10 to do the pressing and pick up scraps. 

Knight obviously isn't as creative as a traditional number 10, but none of our more creative players can press and chase without giving away free kicks and collecting yellows like he can.

This means the 2 wide players are the creators and it is those players who are slightly letting us down now as they aren't picking players out with crosses early enough.

If in Jan we get a second striker, who is more mobile and can rotate with CKR then Knight can drop in alongside Bielik and Sibley or Lawrence can play the number 10 role.

 

[i-Ram]

34 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Get Sibley on the pitch. Push entire team up 10 yards. Shoot more often. Stop over-passing, get forward in greater numbers as a unit. All things Wazza (& Mac} will be working on. 

Come on Ella, you still can’t think Mac is overly involved in selection, tactics, training, etc., can you? My guess is that Rooney doesn’t particularly rate him.

[CBRammette]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Many of our selection issues are influenced by the crazy schedule of games.

Now we have established ourselves with a CF we can play off we want to play him every game. However he is 34. He has to pace himself through games which means playing Knight as a 10 to do the pressing and pick up scraps. 

Knight obviously isn't as creative as a traditional number 10, but none of our more creative players can press and chase without giving away free kicks and collecting yellows like he can.

This means the 2 wide players are the creators and it is those players who are slightly letting us down now as they aren't picking players out with crosses early enough.

If in Jan we get a second striker, who is more mobile and can rotate with CKR then Knight can drop in alongside Bielik and Sibley or Lawrence can play the number 10 role.

 

"This means the 2 wide players are the creators and it is those players who are slightly letting us down now as they aren't picking players out with crosses early enough."  Jozwiak is our most creative at the moment. None of our forwards ever seem to be in the right place when a good ball does come in or it comes off a defender. I dont know if that is luck, or it can be coached or if they just arent good enough. We had plenty in the box yesterday as it was much more attacking but dont look like scoring. I like CKR alot and what he brings to the team but I think some are clutching at straws on his ability especially with the support around him. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, CBRammette said:

"This means the 2 wide players are the creators and it is those players who are slightly letting us down now as they aren't picking players out with crosses early enough."  Jozwiak is our most creative at the moment. None of our forwards ever seem to be in the right place when a good ball does come in or it comes off a defender. I dont know if that is luck, or it can be coached or if they just arent good enough. We had plenty in the box yesterday as it was much more attacking but dont look like scoring. I like CKR alot and what he brings to the team but I think some are clutching at straws on his ability especially with the support around him. 

Jozwiak yesterday delayed putting the cross in times. Taking too many touches. He needs a goal so he will be less anxious in the penalty area.

 

[Rammy03]

50 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Don't want to ditch the plan but we need a goalscorer up there.

Yes it would be nice to have a prolific striker up there but the way we play limits their impact. We don't create enough clear cut chances, we're doing better but it's still not enough. We don't attack quick enough when we get the ball, we wait for the opposition to get back into shape. We overplay it in the final third before putting a cross into the box. We don't have anyone who is willing to play a killer pass through opposition defences. 

[CBRammette]

9 minutes ago, sage said:

Jozwiak yesterday delayed putting the cross in times. Taking too many touches. He needs a goal so he will be less anxious in the penalty area.

 

Funny how we all see it differently isnt it watching same match. Thought he was our only really creative threat! 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

Yes it would be nice to have a prolific striker up there but the way we play limits their impact. We don't create enough clear cut chances, we're doing better but it's still not enough. We don't attack quick enough when we get the ball, we wait for the opposition to get back into shape. We overplay it in the final third before putting a cross into the box. We don't have anyone who is willing to play a killer pass through opposition defences. 

Chicken and egg - whats the point of playing the ball forward quickly when there's no-one who will score? We'll create more when we have more confidence in the front man. We looked much better yesterday until Lawrence had to go off. For all the anti-Tom's it showed up how important he is to our play atm.

Not seen anyone say we miss Holmes - was he injured?