Knight and Shinnie

[Birdyabroad]

Knight and Shinnie, the 80’s TV detective duo that never quite made it to the small screen.

[Taribo]

Sadly, I personally believe 32Red have a clause in the Rooney contract that he must play when fit 

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, Taribo said:

Sadly, I personally believe 32Red have a clause in the Rooney contract that he must play when fit 

That will have a really negative impact if that is the case....

[Ellafella]

11 hours ago, LittleEatonRam said:

They remind me a little of Bryson and Hendrick as a pair, although not overtly. They seem to have a similar balance between them. Hendrick was more attack minded than Shinnie but the principle is there.

It also occurred to me before posting this that one is Irish and the other Scottish..

Kin-ell you’re on fire ? today @LittleEatonRam ?

[minesahartington]

11 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Knight in central midfield, obvious innit ?‍♂️

Who’s telling Wazzer...?

[Jimbo Ram]

5 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

Who’s telling Wazzer...?

That’s the point, Cocu needs to be strong...

[Ramarena]

Knight is a cracking young player, the best of the crop despite bird and sibbo grabbing all the headlines.

Shinnie is one of those players many Derby fans love to neglect. Same as BJ and Eustace before him. Our fans don’t often appreciate the gritty work horse type player who gets the dirty work done without fuss allowing their favorites to play!

Shame

[minesahartington]

5 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Knight is a cracking young player, the best of the crop despite bird and sibbo grabbing all the headlines.

Shinnie is one of those players many Derby fans love to neglect. Same as BJ and Eustace before him. Our fans don’t often appreciate the gritty work horse type player who gets the dirty work done without fuss allowing their favorites to play!

Shame

He will win them over

[Red Ram]

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Totally much better balance 

this is a little bit of my gripe with cocu ... I’m not having a go ... I think we’re making very slow tentative steps in progression.

but last season

he v naively thought we could pass our way through the championship and started the the opening 5-6 games with a midfield two of hiddleston and dowell... needless to say they were absolutely run off the park. When asked he stated that shinnie wasn’t technical enough .... well the argument against that was that dowell and Huddlestone wernt Mobile, athletic or hardworking enough 

results were poor and so shinnie was brought in... things improved 

this season .... what does he do ... start with bird / Rooney ... again we are our fought, out worked and and ran .... 

shinnie Re instated and knight brought in ... more energy, more drive, more competitive 

I truly hope the Penney has now dropped with phill and that in the championship especially u can get away with Luxarys that can’t put the graft in from the centre of the park 

A fair point but I think you're perhaps focusing on one single factor. Other things have changed too - most obviously the return of Waghorn and Lawrence. Agree though - Knight and Shinnie should be the pairing for the foreseeable future.

[1967Ram]

I hope it will at least be one of them playing there every game. I think it will suit Rooney better to not have to play every game too. He's coming to the end of his playing career and the games will take more out of him now. Hopefully, with players getting back to fitness and more competition, Rooney can be used sparingly and be more effective as a result.

[Ellafella]

3 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Totally much better balance 

this is a little bit of my gripe with cocu ... I’m not having a go ... I think we’re making very slow tentative steps in progression.

but last season

he v naively thought we could pass our way through the championship and started the the opening 5-6 games with a midfield two of hiddleston and dowell... needless to say they were absolutely run off the park. When asked he stated that shinnie wasn’t technical enough .... well the argument against that was that dowell and Huddlestone wernt Mobile, athletic or hardworking enough 

results were poor and so shinnie was brought in... things improved 

this season .... what does he do ... start with bird / Rooney ... again we are our fought, out worked and and ran .... 

shinnie Re instated and knight brought in ... more energy, more drive, more competitive 

I truly hope the Penney has now dropped with phill and that in the championship especially u can get away with Luxarys that can’t put the graft in from the centre of the park 

Outstanding post because you shine a light on how Cocu is having to learn “on the hoof” about the realities of Championship football. I suspect that Rooney has been a key “advisor” if you get my drift. 

[IlsonDerby]

Do we think Bird can increase his fitness to the levels of Shinnie and Knight? Just imagine Shinnie, Bird and Knight being the main 3 options for those two ‘shuttle’ roles. Bird for games where we expect to have more possession and control the game. Shinnie when we know it’s gonna be a difficult one. 
 

I don’t even think we need a new formation to fit in Sibley - with the role of the wingbacks to provide the width - the ‘wingers’ have more freedom to come central as we saw with Lawrence and Joswiak last night. 
 

Bielik comes in and plays the 3rd centre back who pushes up to defensive midfield meaning we have a side capable of fluidly switching between 433 and 343 during matches. 

[Premier ram]

Shinnie was MOM for me last night , his willingness to do the dirty work , his support of the attacks and general leadership was simply outstanding , long may it continue

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, minesahartington said:

Who’s telling Wazzer...?

That's the point, Rooney needs to be no where near that team, the last couple of games have proven that.

Rooney on the bench would be good, last 10 minutes of a game etc.

[Jimbo Ram]

15 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Do we think Bird can increase his fitness to the levels of Shinnie and Knight? Just imagine Shinnie, Bird and Knight being the main 3 options for those two ‘shuttle’ roles. Bird for games where we expect to have more possession and control the game. Shinnie when we know it’s gonna be a difficult one. 
 

I don’t even think we need a new formation to fit in Sibley - with the role of the wingbacks to provide the width - the ‘wingers’ have more freedom to come central as we saw with Lawrence and Joswiak last night. 
 

Bielik comes in and plays the 3rd centre back who pushes up to defensive midfield meaning we have a side capable of fluidly switching between 433 and 343 during matches. 

I am struggling to fit Sibley in, who does he come in for?

[RamNut]

9 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Outstanding post because you shine a light on how Cocu is having to learn “on the hoof” about the realities of Championship football. I suspect that Rooney has been a key “advisor” if you get my drift. 

Can’t agree. 

Under cocu we acquired an ability to pass our way out of trouble. When done well it’s very impressive and seems to breed confidence. But it began to become a vice. Too much twatting about.  Latterly we have started to hoof it more. Clarke is particularly prone to it. More often than not we just just lose possession. I’m not arguing in favour of the tippy tippy sidewards and backwards stuff from defensive midfielders who seem to forget which way we are playing. That was more Huddlestone, Rooney and Bird. Especially Bird. But slick passing works. Jason knight - as ever - gets it spot on. He just seems to be able to judge perfectly when to play safe and when to drive forward. What an outstanding talent he is.

shinnie is great at what he does and had his best ever game v Forest. But he is technically limited. He would probably admit that himself. The through ball to Lawrence that was over hit and went out of play shows his limitation.

We’ve found a better balance overall but we still need to find room for Sibley unless we want to be selling him to Sheffield United too. In the longer term I still see bird, knight and Sibley as the engine room who pass and move to good effect.  

More Lampard than Rowett. 

 

[Ellafella]

1 minute ago, RamNut said:

Can’t agree. 

Under cocu we acquired an ability to pass our way out of trouble. When done well it’s very impressive and seems to breed confidence. But it began to become a vice. Too much twatting about.  Latterly we have started to hoof it more. Clarke is particularly prone to it. More often than not we just just lose possession. I’m not arguing in favour of the tippy tippy sidewards and backwards stuff from defensive midfielders who seem to forget which way we are playing. That was more Huddlestone, Rooney and Bird. Especially Bird. But slick passing works. Jason knight - as ever - gets it spot on. He just seems to be able to judge perfectly when to play safe and when to drive forward. What an outstanding talent he is.

shinnie is great at what he does and had his best ever game v Forest. But he is technically limited. He would probably admit that himself. The through ball to Lawrence that was over hit and went out of play shows his limitation.

We’ve found a better balance overall but we still need to find room for Sibley unless we want to be selling him to Sheffield United too. In the longer term I still see bird, knight and Sibley as the engine room who pass and move to good effect.  

More Lampard than Rowett. 

 

You can’t agree @RamNut and then make a series of posts that don’t address the point I was making so not sure what you’re not agreeing about. 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

You can’t agree @RamNut and then make a series of posts that don’t address the point I was making so not sure what you’re not agreeing about. 

I personally don’t agree with your negative stuff about Cocu and his playing style. 
 

Is that clear enough mate. 

[RamNut]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

You can’t agree @RamNut and then make a series of posts that don’t address the point I was making so not sure what you’re not agreeing about. 

The post you agreed to seems to argue for industry over a more technical passing game.

Quote

he v naively thought we could pass our way through the championship 

he stated that shinnie wasn’t technical enough. results were poor and so shinnie was brought in... things improved 

To which you added, that he is learning on the hoof about the realities of the championship guided by Rooney(?).

Well? Rooney can’t run. Rooney is not industrious. But Rooney can pass. So if Rooney has any value, it’s as part of a team that passes. Cocu wants them to pass, but he was critical of the tame backwards passing and the lack of movement, that bored everyone shitless. 
I understand that certain senior players aren’t so comfortable with the ball and Marshall’s kicking is a bit hit and miss but ultimately it will be a passing team that triumphs over a less technical team. (reference Fulham v rowett’s Derby) 

[Posh Ram]

100%. I rate Bird but he needs a run of games dominating in the U23s. His confidence looked shot against Huddersfield. Long-term, Bird/Knight could be a really good midfield pairing though.

If Rooney keeps starting I can't see us getting more than 55 points. He slows the game down so much and forces better players like Knight out of their natural starting position. He needs to realise this and either become content in being a super-sub or hang up his boots and focus on getting his coaching badges.