Let’s be positive.

[angieram]

Anyone who thinks that a club that challenges for promotion needs to have £300,000 plus worth of wages sitting on the bench week in week out just in case they are needed is supporting the wrong club. It isn't going to be happening at Derby again any time soon.

I suggest trying Villa - they will be coming down with shedloads of parachute payments (if FFP doesn't catch up with them  and I don't expect it will anytime soon.)

And back to the theme of positivity, aren't these great? 

 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

Anyone who thinks that a club that challenges for promotion needs to have £300,000 plus worth of wages sitting on the bench week in week out just in case they are needed is supporting the wrong club. It isn't going to be happening at Derby again any time soon.

I suggest trying Villa - they will be coming down with shedloads of parachute payments (if FFP doesn't catch up with them  and I don't expect it will anytime soon.)

And back to the theme of positivity, aren't these great? 

 

 

It’s not necessarily how much wages we are paying them it is whether they are good enough.

Hopefully our players are and they earn the higher wages through hard work and success.

[angieram]

1 minute ago, Van Gritters said:

It’s not necessarily how much wages we are paying them it is whether they are good enough.

Hopefully our players are and they earn the higher wages through hard work and success.

I agree but people were comparing our subs to West Brom's - I was just pointing out that the days of us having expensive large squads are definitely over for the time being. I bet none of WBA's seasoned subs were posting about how excited they were to be out on the pitch! 

 

[Sparkle]

Its impossible to compete on the finances front with the parachute money teams and next season we will have Norwich who are a very decent side anyway with money to pick up whoever they want, probably Bournemouth who will try to buy everybody along with Villa who have brought everybody and not to mention the teams currently receiving parachute money in the league so we need to have a team that gels very quickly if we are to achieve promotion 

I still think any team that takes the parachute money each season should have a 12 point deduction to start with each season to even out the financial playing field and if they didn’t that money could be shared out amongst the EFL clubs - now vote for that 

[Sparkle]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree but people were comparing our subs to West Brom's - I was just pointing out that the days of us having expensive large squads are definitely over for the time being. I bet none of WBA's seasoned subs were posting about how excited they were to be out on the pitch! 

 

I bet they were discussing how much they get paid extra for being selected to sit on the bench and how much extra they get for their walk on appearance on top of their basic pay.

[RamNut]

With the u23s not playing, this is their only opportunity to play.

I’m not sure what the benefit of 6 minutes is.

give any sub at least 15 minutes please. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

 

 

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The usual criticism towards Bogle are his crossing and his ability to defend. These are areas Fozzy is often complimented on.

This season Bogle has made 25 accurate crosses out of 74. This is only an accuracy of 29.6%, but it's higher than Fozzy's (when playing LB). No-one at the club puts more accurate balls in per game than Bogle, with Lowe the only one with a higher accuracy, and Malone putting balls in more often (with just a 16.7% accuracy). Other parts of Bogle's attacking game are pretty good, and rarely come under criticism, so I don't think it's worth looking into those.. he's a very good attacking full back.

So let's look at his defending instead. Bogle is easily dribbled past, recording out lowest tackle success rate out of all our full backs (70.5%). However, this is only just below Forsyth's 72% and made up for by being the second highest tackler with 2 successful tackles per game. Forsyth's is 1.9, with Wisdom (1.2 @ 87.5%) and Malone (1.4 @78.3%) significantly worse. Lowe however, excels in this area with 4.1 tackles per game with a 84.3% success rate - an area highlighted by his impact vs Forest where he made more tackles in 10 minutes than any other player during the entire game. The important thing you may have noticed is that as the season's progressed, Bogle's diving in less often, and improving in this area under Cocu's coaching.

Interceptions? Lowe once again excels in this area with 1.9 per 90, Fozzy 1.7, and Bogle 1.2

"Bogle commits fouls too often". This is the biggest area for Bogle to improve on. 1.5 fouls per game compared with Lowe's 0.5, Wisdom's 0.3 and Fozzy's 0.

"Ah, but Bogle doesn't block crosses either". Well, Fozzy get's applauded for his 0.7 per 90, whereas Bogle's 0.5 get's slaughtered, and so does Lowe's 0.8. It's also worth noting Fozzy only blocks 0.5 shots and passes per 90, compared with Bogle's 0.9.

"We need Fozzy in at LB and Wisdom at RB because they're good in the air. Our other fullbacks are useless".  Well not really... There is not much separating Lowe and Fozzy here. Lowe's 1.7 headers won per 90 at 47.5% isn't too far off Fozzy's 1.9 at 46.3%. Bogle's 0.9 at 41.5% is arguably better than Wisdoms 0.7 at 51.4%

 

If Bogle cuts out those fouls, there's not much separating him and the rest defensively, and he's streets ahead of Wisdom when attacking.

So Jayden, your applying for a position as a full back, what can you bring to the team.  Accurate crossing of 29.6% and I get dribbled past a lot.  On the plus side I commit three times as many fouls in a game as other full backs and typically block less crosses and passes than a bloke 10 years my senior who's had three knee ops and spent two years not playing.

We'll let you know.

[Ghost of Clough]

18 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

 

 

So Jayden, your applying for a position as a full back, what can you bring to the team.  Accurate crossing of 29.6% and I get dribbled past a lot.  On the plus side I commit three times as many fouls in a game as other full backs and typically block less crosses and passes than a bloke 10 years my senior who's had three knee ops and spent two years not playing.

We'll let you know.

Believe it or not, but 29.6% is very good. here are some figures for the more prolific crossers this season:
Downing - 30.9%
Wallace - 23.6%
Manning - 26.1%
Eliasson - 25.1%
McClean - 22.2%
Phillips - 21.1%
Clucas - 31.0%

Guess which full backs have been dribbled past more than Bogle... Ayling, Pedersen, Manning, J Bennett, Bryan, Wallace, Cash, Dalsgaard, Colin, Romeo, Lichaj, Byrne, Robinson. And that's just the regular starters in the league.

Bogle does commit a lot of fouls, but so do a lot of other full backs. Bidwell, Wallace, Simpson, Furlong, Dallas, E Bennett, Lowe, Odoi, Ferguson, Yiadom, Fisher are all worse for it.

You clearly can't count as he blocks more shots, crosses and passes per 90 mins than Forsyth.

[YorkshireRam]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The usual criticism towards Bogle are his crossing and his ability to defend. These are areas Fozzy is often complimented on.

This season Bogle has made 25 accurate crosses out of 74. This is only an accuracy of 29.6%, but it's higher than Fozzy's (when playing LB). No-one at the club puts more accurate balls in per game than Bogle, with Lowe the only one with a higher accuracy, and Malone putting balls in more often (with just a 16.7% accuracy). Other parts of Bogle's attacking game are pretty good, and rarely come under criticism, so I don't think it's worth looking into those.. he's a very good attacking full back.

So let's look at his defending instead. Bogle is easily dribbled past, recording out lowest tackle success rate out of all our full backs (70.5%). However, this is only just below Forsyth's 72% and made up for by being the second highest tackler with 2 successful tackles per game. Forsyth's is 1.9, with Wisdom (1.2 @ 87.5%) and Malone (1.4 @78.3%) significantly worse. Lowe however, excels in this area with 4.1 tackles per game with a 84.3% success rate - an area highlighted by his impact vs Forest where he made more tackles in 10 minutes than any other player during the entire game. The important thing you may have noticed is that as the season's progressed, Bogle's diving in less often, and improving in this area under Cocu's coaching.

Interceptions? Lowe once again excels in this area with 1.9 per 90, Fozzy 1.7, and Bogle 1.2

"Bogle commits fouls too often". This is the biggest area for Bogle to improve on. 1.5 fouls per game compared with Lowe's 0.5, Wisdom's 0.3 and Fozzy's 0.

"Ah, but Bogle doesn't block crosses either". Well, Fozzy get's applauded for his 0.7 per 90, whereas Bogle's 0.5 get's slaughtered, and so does Lowe's 0.8. It's also worth noting Fozzy only blocks 0.5 shots and passes per 90, compared with Bogle's 0.9.

"We need Fozzy in at LB and Wisdom at RB because they're good in the air. Our other fullbacks are useless".  Well not really... There is not much separating Lowe and Fozzy here. Lowe's 1.7 headers won per 90 at 47.5% isn't too far off Fozzy's 1.9 at 46.3%. Bogle's 0.9 at 41.5% is arguably better than Wisdoms 0.7 at 51.4%

 

If Bogle cuts out those fouls, there's not much separating him and the rest defensively, and he's streets ahead of Wisdom when attacking.

Great stats, and reinforces my opinion that Lowe should be first choice LB at the minute. My only worry about playing Bogle and Lowe together is the lack of aerial strength between them; I feel that's why they're rarely deployed together.

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I've always been clear that I think Bogle is over rated. Huddlestone was a better player at 17 than the three lads noted as a class above, hence the years at Spurs. They will likely improve bar Bogle who is going backwards at a rate of knots.

 

 

Bogle had most assists last season as a defender. With a team that contained Mason Mount and Harry Wilson, that's quite an impressive achievement. I do believe he could be stronger defensively but this is clearly being coached and worked on in training and should come with time. Worth remembering he is only 19 still...

[brady1993]

20 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Great stats, and reinforces my opinion that Lowe should be first choice LB at the minute. My only worry about playing Bogle and Lowe together is the lack of aerial strength between them; I feel that's why they're rarely deployed together.

Bogle had most assists last season as a defender. With a team that contained Mason Mount and Harry Wilson, that's quite an impressive achievement. I do believe he could be stronger defensively but this is clearly being coached and worked on in training and should come with time. Worth remembering he is only 19 still...

2nd most assists this year so far as well....

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Believe it or not, but 29.6% is very good. here are some figures for the more prolific crossers this season:
Downing - 30.9%
Wallace - 23.6%
Manning - 26.1%
Eliasson - 25.1%
McClean - 22.2%
Phillips - 21.1%
Clucas - 31.0%

Guess which full backs have been dribbled past more than Bogle... Ayling, Pedersen, Manning, J Bennett, Bryan, Wallace, Cash, Dalsgaard, Colin, Romeo, Lichaj, Byrne, Robinson. And that's just the regular starters in the league.

Bogle does commit a lot of fouls, but so do a lot of other full backs. Bidwell, Wallace, Simpson, Furlong, Dallas, E Bennett, Lowe, Odoi, Ferguson, Yiadom, Fisher are all worse for it.

You clearly can't count as he blocks more shots, crosses and passes per 90 mins than Forsyth.

 

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Ah, but Bogle doesn't block crosses either". Well, Fozzy get's applauded for his 0.7 per 90, whereas Bogle's 0.5 get's slaughtered, and so does Lowe's 0.8.

Your clearly getting your knickers in a twist as you can't remember your own point.

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

"Ah, but Bogle doesn't block crosses either". Well, Fozzy get's applauded for his 0.7 per 90, whereas Bogle's 0.5 get's slaughtered, and so does Lowe's 0.8. It's also worth noting Fozzy only blocks 0.5 shots and passes per 90, compared with Bogle's 0.9.

 

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

typically block less crosses and passes than a bloke 10 years my senior who's had three knee ops and spent two years not playing.

 

26 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

your clearly getting your knickers in a twist as you can't remember your own point.

You said “crosses and passes”. I offered one stat for crosses, and another for combined shots and passes. It’s fair to assume then that you weren’t solely referring to the crosses stat. 1.2 blocked crosses, passes (and shots) for Fozzy, vs 1.4 for Bogle.

Try taking your knickers off and putting them on properly this time. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

50 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

 

You said “crosses and passes”. I offered one stat for crosses, and another for combined shots and passes. It’s fair to assume then that you weren’t solely referring to the crosses stat. 1.2 blocked crosses, passes (and shots) for Fozzy, vs 1.4 for Bogle.

Try taking your knickers off and putting them on properly this time. 

We can gone on like this all day if you like.  in your haste to make a point, you made yourself look silly.  I clearly mentioned the blocks in my reply. 

[Ghost of Clough]

31 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We can gone on like this all day if you like.  in your haste to make a point, you made yourself look silly.  I clearly mentioned the blocks in my reply. 

Try re-reading what you actually typed out. You didn't say just "blocked crosses" as you've since claimed. Hence why I made the assumption you were referring to the other stat I offered 'blocked passes and blocked shots'.

I've checked the numbers and you are correct regarding blocked crosses and passes. Bogle's at 1.1 and Fozzy's at 1.2. However, I think it's also important to clarify that Fozzy has so far failed to block a single shot when playing at LB. Bogle meanwhile has blocked 10 shots, and overall blocks the ball more than Fozzy. I also certainly value a blocked shot higher than a cross or pass.

[Ghost of Clough]

Positives from today

- Bogle
- Evans
- Clarke
- Lowe
- Bird
- Rooney
- Sibley
- Knight
- Lawrence
- Martin
- Shinnie 
- Jozefzoon
- Whittaker

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Positives from today

- Evans
 

Not really, was very ordinary today. Not even a back up centre half for me, a 3rd choice perhaps - which is of course what he is.

[neil62uk]

I'm positively  looking forward to next season  

[Dimmu]

On 10/07/2020 at 08:01, Ghost of Clough said:

The usual criticism towards Bogle are his crossing and his ability to defend. These are areas Fozzy is often complimented on.

This season Bogle has made 25 accurate crosses out of 74. This is only an accuracy of 29.6%, but it's higher than Fozzy's (when playing LB). No-one at the club puts more accurate balls in per game than Bogle, with Lowe the only one with a higher accuracy, and Malone putting balls in more often (with just a 16.7% accuracy). Other parts of Bogle's attacking game are pretty good, and rarely come under criticism, so I don't think it's worth looking into those.. he's a very good attacking full back.

So let's look at his defending instead. Bogle is easily dribbled past, recording out lowest tackle success rate out of all our full backs (70.5%). However, this is only just below Forsyth's 72% and made up for by being the second highest tackler with 2 successful tackles per game. Forsyth's is 1.9, with Wisdom (1.2 @ 87.5%) and Malone (1.4 @78.3%) significantly worse. Lowe however, excels in this area with 4.1 tackles per game with a 84.3% success rate - an area highlighted by his impact vs Forest where he made more tackles in 10 minutes than any other player during the entire game. The important thing you may have noticed is that as the season's progressed, Bogle's diving in less often, and improving in this area under Cocu's coaching.

Interceptions? Lowe once again excels in this area with 1.9 per 90, Fozzy 1.7, and Bogle 1.2

"Bogle commits fouls too often". This is the biggest area for Bogle to improve on. 1.5 fouls per game compared with Lowe's 0.5, Wisdom's 0.3 and Fozzy's 0.

"Ah, but Bogle doesn't block crosses either". Well, Fozzy get's applauded for his 0.7 per 90, whereas Bogle's 0.5 get's slaughtered, and so does Lowe's 0.8. It's also worth noting Fozzy only blocks 0.5 shots and passes per 90, compared with Bogle's 0.9.

"We need Fozzy in at LB and Wisdom at RB because they're good in the air. Our other fullbacks are useless".  Well not really... There is not much separating Lowe and Fozzy here. Lowe's 1.7 headers won per 90 at 47.5% isn't too far off Fozzy's 1.9 at 46.3%. Bogle's 0.9 at 41.5% is arguably better than Wisdoms 0.7 at 51.4%

 

If Bogle cuts out those fouls, there's not much separating him and the rest defensively, and he's streets ahead of Wisdom when attacking.

Once again, good work with the stats @Ghost of Clough. I agree, he is good attacking fullback. Unfortunately, his biggest problem, defensive positioning, is not available in those numbers (ok, maybe a bit in the amount of fouls and how easily he gets beaten... Today we had prime example during the second half. He was nowhere close Benrahma and we weren't even attacking.  He was just wandering somewhere. Don't know how that's even possible, lack of concentration maybe? Well, Benrahma surely did make the most of it today.

[Kuskus]

I still believe we can push for play offs if results go our way as we are only 3 point outside of the playoffs hoping that Swansea don’t beat Leeds.

If we beat Cardiff, we are back in the mix.

COYR

[Birdyabroad]

Phew! Thank fook the season is finally finished ?

Whilst in no way did I want us to lose against Cardiff (I actually put a bet on the draw when we went 2-1 down ?) in a strange way, there’s now a feeling of relief that this season can be put to bed - We no longer, realistically, can dream of the playoffs.

And what a season of disaster after disaster, only Derby can lose their star signing to injury, their captain to drink driving, value their stadium way above any reasonable going-rate, get a player sent off after the final whistle, see their once-potential super-investor arrested - Let’s please take a moment to rejoice at the end to a Hollywood disaster of a season ?????

Now, down to the real business, preparing for the short turnaround and NEXT SEASON! ?

I think it’s imperative that we do the following:

1 - Treat the next couple of games as pre-season games. Give Wayne (Who has been brilliant, regardless of tonight) a rest, give Fozzie and Martin a rest also.

2 - Give more youngsters a run, see if Buchanan, Brown, JHI and Whittaker have the chops for a first team birth next year.

3 - Maybe try Ravas in goal? I don’t know much about him, so this may be a reach?

4 - Scour the earth for one, possibly two, goalkeepers. Hamer is a goner and Roos can go to. I know he saved a few shots tonight, but don’t let that cloud your judgement, he’s not reliable enough unfortunately.

5 - Try and raise some money through sales, would anyone give us anything for Zoon, Malone or Roos, anyone, anyone...? Maybe, controversial, try and cash in on one of our two players who may fetch a bit in the market, Bogle or Lawrence?

Finally, and this is the MOST important of all, if we are going to get a punishment, I.e., a points deduction, we MUST get it for this season. If it is up to 12 points, then we’re still well clear of the relegation zone.

It would be a disaster of Derby County proportions if any points deduction were applied to next season. Think how de-motivating that would be to Cocu, think what a waste of potentially Rooney’s last year as a player, fighting a relegation dogfight when he should be leading our young bucks at the top of the league. Think also of new players, loans or otherwise, who wouldn’t come as a result of a team starting on minus points.

So, let’s be positive about our future tonight, take the defeat tonight as a moment to breathe in this mad mad season, re-group and get fit and ready for next season, which, by the way, will be here before we know it! ????