ThePrisoner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, Coconut said: Was it made public who provided the £80m valuation or is this on a need to know, hush hush don't tell anyone basis? It was Jones Lang LaSalle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLL_(company) I believe it was John Percy who mentioned it in an article about the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 This all has shades of that panama consortium deal from 15 years ago. One of the first things Gadsby did as chairman was buy the ground back at a large cost to get it back into local ownership. I'm sure Morris has savvy enough to include buy back clauses within any agreement made, rather than the three amigos who had no interest but asset stripping but my gut feeling is we potentially have a cluster to unravel. If this bloke does owe money all over town, we don't want the ground being used as an asset in administration purposes with huge increases from a new owner in lease costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: This all has shades of that panama consortium deal from 15 years ago. One of the first things Gadsby did as chairman was buy the ground back at a large cost to get it back into local ownership. I'm sure Morris has savvy enough to include buy back clauses within any agreement made, rather than the three amigos who had no interest but asset stripping but my gut feeling is we potentially have a cluster to unravel. If this bloke does owe money all over town, we don't want the ground being used as an asset in administration purposes with huge increases from a new owner in lease costs. What happens to a mortgagor (buyer) and the house if the mortgagee (the bank) collapses? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: What happens to the mortgagor (buyer) and the property if the mortgagee (the bank) collapses? Genuine question. *may not be accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: What happens to the mortgagor (buyer) and the property if the mortgagee (the bank) collapses? Genuine question. That would be unusual. If an entity is struggling but has a large client base with lots of cash to roll in over a number of years a more successful bank would normally agree a price and purchase as part of there business- Santandar did a lot of that a few years ago. You could have the situation where loads invest in an entity, such as the American housing market a few years back and not have the cash to buy and we have the RBS bailout situation. What would happen outside these scenarios, I couldn't tell you which is why any mortgageS i've had I've gone with the normal larger players and paid slightly more. There could be a mortgage expert floating round the forum somewhere with a more definitive amswer. Either way, if you making payments outside a fixed rate, you would expect to revert to the new owners rate of interest. If it was fixed I would assume the rate would transfer over and if it was a building society go to a members votes for purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 One thing you can never be far away from with football clubs is people with very dodgy money, whilst they may have a lot how they got it is a very debatable question just look at the premier league as it is literally a money laundering business for many individuals - or nations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: If this bloke does owe money all over town, we don't want the ground being used as an asset in administration purposes Gabay doesn't own the stadium. Mel Morris owns the stadium. Gabay lent Mel Morris money. An administrator could not use Mel Morris' stadium as an asset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfs1ram Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 So does anyone know if there is a legal mortgage charge over the stadium and to whom ? I am sure I read somewhere at the time Gabay was arrested that the transaction via Rams Sports Management Ltd was never completed? Don't know the names of all the Holding Companies etc involved or savvy enough to search Companies House but i am sure someone does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Carnero said: Gabay doesn't own the stadium. Mel Morris owns the stadium. Gabay lent Mel Morris money. An administrator could not use Mel Morris' stadium as an asset! My only other worry then is if administration is called in, who may our new creditor may be. Lets hope any payment plan is set up for this eventuality. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: My only other worry then is if administration is called in, who may our new creditor may be. Lets hope any payment plan is set up for this eventuality. Cheers We (Derby County) wouldn't have a new creditor, Mel Morris would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, gfs1ram said: So does anyone know if there is a legal mortgage charge over the stadium and to whom ? I am sure I read somewhere at the time Gabay was arrested that the transaction via Rams Sports Management Ltd was never completed? Don't know the names of all the Holding Companies etc involved or savvy enough to search Companies House but i am sure someone does? The Mel company which has registered the charge goes by the catchy name of Gellaw Newco 202 Limited. If you search for that company on companies house beta (the free search function), you'll find it has registered a charge over Pride Park in favour of a Gabay company called Rams Investment Limited that was incorporated in October 2019. Gabay is not the director but is listed as a person with significant control. The charge was created on 6 November 2019, which tends to suggest that Gabay didn't lend Mel the money to buy Pride Park, but points to a more recent loan. Unless this is a refinancing and there are earlier charges between different entities? (Which I haven't looked for yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Remember when football used to be about 22 blokes kicking a ball about? Whatever any of this actually means, it's so sad that the actual football seems secondary these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 06/07/2020 at 13:05, Rab a dab doo said: Even if had he funds this guy probably would have wanted his pound of flesh and more for it. Thank goodness we got Mel. 7 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said: According to The Athletic, Gabay lent Mel £81.1m in order for him to buy Pride Park a tale in two parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said: The Mel company which has registered the charge goes by the catchy name of Gellaw Newco 202 Limited. If you search for that company on companies house beta (the free search function), you'll find it has registered a charge over Pride Park in favour of a Gabay company called Rams Investment Limited that was incorporated in October 2019. Gabay is not the director but is listed as a person with significant control. The charge was created on 6 November 2019, which tends to suggest that Gabay didn't lend Mel the money to buy Pride Park, but points to a more recent loan. Unless this is a refinancing and there are earlier charges between different entities? (Which I haven't looked for yet). Actually if you look at Gellaw Newco 202's accounts for the year ending June 2019, it is said to own Pride Park, valued at £81m, and is said to owe about £73m to other group undertakings and about £8m to outside creditors, which suggests that it was another Mel Morris company which came up with most of the cash to buy Pride Park. As there are several Gellaws it might take a while to find out which one it was, although the name might be in the reporting from the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoetheRam said: Remember when football used to be about 22 blokes kicking a ball about? Whatever any of this actually means, it's so sad that the actual football seems secondary these days. Start out using jumpers for goalposts and fall in love with the game. Few years later it’s all calculators, going through financial accounts and getting upset over how much other men get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Untwist those knickers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: This all has shades of that panama consortium deal from 15 years ago. One of the first things Gadsby did as chairman was buy the ground back at a large cost to get it back into local ownership. I'm sure Morris has savvy enough to include buy back clauses within any agreement made, rather than the three amigos who had no interest but asset stripping but my gut feeling is we potentially have a cluster to unravel. If this bloke does owe money all over town, we don't want the ground being used as an asset in administration purposes with huge increases from a new owner in lease costs. It's really not - As I've already said, it's entirely normal for institutions to lend each other money ensuring liquidity - If it makes better financial sense to borrow the money rather than liquidate an asset to get cash. As a very simple example, you've got 50k in a savings account making 5% (yes, I know) and you need 50k to buy a car, if someone offers to lend you that 50k at 1% then that's the efficient way to do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoxallRam Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, David said: Untwist those knickers Just about to post this. Talk about clickbait. Creates this big story for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, YoxallRam said: Just about to post this. Talk about clickbait. Creates this big story for nothing. I have no problem with Ryan Conway, but maybe he should have investigated a little more before releasing the story, creating unnecessary panic on top of what we’ve been through this season. He can go on the naughty step for an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, AutoWindscreens said: The Mel company which has registered the charge goes by the catchy name of Gellaw Newco 202 Limited. If you search for that company on companies house beta (the free search function), you'll find it has registered a charge over Pride Park in favour of a Gabay company called Rams Investment Limited that was incorporated in October 2019. Gabay is not the director but is listed as a person with significant control. The charge was created on 6 November 2019, which tends to suggest that Gabay didn't lend Mel the money to buy Pride Park, but points to a more recent loan. Unless this is a refinancing and there are earlier charges between different entities? (Which I haven't looked for yet). I'm guessing it's owed to Gellaw NewCo 204, which owed money to another party. As a guess i'd say debtors = Gellaw NewCo 202, and creditors = Rams Investment Limited. Here's a bit from NewCo 204 accounts: As far as I know these are the relevant companies for the club: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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