Live football thread.

[Rammy03]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Unbelievable. Not sure how Southgate survives this

Come on don't be silly he's going to be in charge for the world cup whether you like it or not

[RadioactiveWaste]

I guess England just weren't Hungary enough, eh?

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

Phillips was featured before the match talking about how he was still fresh as he'd missed a lot of the season. 

So we got peak Phillips....... 

He's proved he cannot be the single pivot in a 433. He isn't good enough. Actually I don't think rice is quick enough to play that role either. 

So looks like 4231 it is and hoping for a 1-0 is the way to go for the foreseeable....... 

[Mr Tibbs]

Shove ya Nations League up your chuffer, we're coming for you Iran. 

[Rammy03]

22 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Phillips was featured before the match talking about how he was still fresh as he'd missed a lot of the season. 

So we got peak Phillips....... 

He's proved he cannot be the single pivot in a 433. He isn't good enough. Actually I don't think rice is quick enough to play that role either. 

So looks like 4231 it is and hoping for a 1-0 is the way to go for the foreseeable....... 

People called for Southgate to change formation, to play 433 with the likes of Bellingham. Well he's tried it and it hasn't worked.

Now that's obviously not the sole reason we lost but people are blaming him when they called for him to change. He can't win.

Maybe we would have been better off sticking with a similar side throughout the four games. We probably would have got better performances and maybe even a win or two. But then again players were tired and he obviously wanted to have a look at some new players.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Rammy03 said:

People called for Southgate to change formation, to play 433 with the likes of Bellingham. Well he's tried it and it hasn't worked.

Now that's obviously not the sole reason we lost but people are blaming him when they called for him to change. He can't win.

Maybe we would have been better off sticking with a similar side throughout the four games. We probably would have got better performances and maybe even a win or two. But then again players were tired and he obviously wanted to have a look at some new players.

I was one of those "people" as the approach of the tactics appeared increasingly to play 6 or 7 defensive players which limited our attacking. 

Tonight we started with a 433 so a 5-5 split on paper between attack and defence. So no issue with that. 

But we then get a new - and potentially exciting CB partnership thrown in with a lb who's never played there and is not left footed. 

An unnecessary risk? 

Said lb is then moved to the rwb position early in the 2nd half. 

Then the midfield 3 were a single pivot who proved not to be up to the role plus 2 natural no 8 types. So no natural passer. 

Then what were the tactics with kane? 

The number of risky and/or incomprehensible decisions was very high tonight. Too high as it proved. 

[Bris Vegas]

It was just another glorified friendly. Who cares?

The important games are ahead at the World Cup. And with a favorable draw like the last two tournaments, we can reach at least the semi-finals. That said, if we get a Brazil or someone early in the knockout stages, I fear that will be it for Southgate.

As long as he and England avoid anyone decent until the last four then the World Cup can be a success.

[Kinder]

Just got back from the England game. It was my 13 yo lad’s first international and what a baptism of fire! I’d hoped it would be a release from the stresses of following Derby!

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

It was just another glorified friendly. Who cares?

The important games are ahead at the World Cup. And with a favorable draw like the last two tournaments, we can reach at least the semi-finals. That said, if we get a Brazil or someone early in the knockout stages, I fear that will be it for Southgate.

As long as he and England avoid anyone decent until the last four then the World Cup can be a success.

Last four is not success.

[sage]

11 minutes ago, Kinder said:

Just got back from the England game. It was my 13 yo lad’s first international and what a baptism of fire! I’d hoped it would be a release from the stresses of following Derby!

You're a jinx. 

Can I interest you in a Forest season ticket? 

[Bris Vegas]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Last four is not success.

It is if you’re not the best team in the tournament. And I think we can all name half a dozen teams better. 

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

It is if you’re not the best team in the tournament. And I think we can all name half a dozen teams better. 

I can't name half a dozen better teams. If managed properly, England's squad can go toe to toe with anybody.

[Bris Vegas]

8 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I can't name half a dozen better teams. If managed properly, England's squad can go toe to toe with anybody.

Do you really believe that? I mean, all bias aside, we only have a couple of world class players with a lot of good players sprinkled in. I know we have several players who play for Liverpool and City, but none are among their best players.

The only English player who is among the best five players at a top four PL club is Harry Kane.

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Do you really believe that? I mean, all bias aside, we only have a couple of world class players with a lot of good players sprinkled in. I know we have several players who play for Liverpool and City, but none are among their best players.

The only English player who is among the best five players at a top four PL club is Harry Kane.

Not many other international teams have world class players. They're spread out. We made a euros final (and definitely not due to the management of the squad). Our squad is one of the best in the world. With a progressive manager, it can win the world cup and the euros. 

[Bris Vegas]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Not many other international teams have world class players. They're spread out. We made a euros final (and definitely not due to the management of the squad). Our squad is one of the best in the world. With a progressive manager, it can win the world cup and the euros. 

I believe we only made the Euro final because we were dealt a favorable draw. Our best win was over a struggling Germany side at home. We are still yet to beat what I’d consider a proper top team.

I could be wrong, but I think the moment we play a good team at the World Cup we will lose.

Right now I think our defence is poor and our midfield quite average. Our attack is our strongest area and I’d say the likes of France, Brazil and Argentina for sure have better forward options. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

I believe we only made the Euro final because we were dealt a favorable draw. Our best win was over a struggling Germany side at home. We are still yet to beat what I’d consider a proper top team.

I could be wrong, but I think the moment we play a good team at the World Cup we will lose.

Right now I think our defence is poor and our midfield quite average. Our attack is our strongest area and I’d say the likes of France, Brazil and Argentina for sure have better forward options. 

European sides dominate the world cup. We made a Euros final. 

We made a Euros final because we won our side of the draw. Spain weren't difficult, France went out to a rubbish side. 

France got 2 points in their nations league group didn't they? Brazil and Argentina are flimsy sides. 

[Bris Vegas]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

European sides dominate the world cup. We made a Euros final. 

We made a Euros final because we won our side of the draw. Spain weren't difficult, France went out to a rubbish side. 

France got 2 points in their nations league group didn't they? Brazil and Argentina are flimsy sides. 

South American sides generally fair better in warmer world cups. This one will be a warmer one. As for being flimsy, I’m not sure on what basis both Brazil and Argentina are on great form. Brazil’s spine is rock solid.

I wouldn’t take much notice of the Nations League. And I’m also giving England the benefit of the doubt here. It’s a bunch of glorified friendlies with several clubs testing out systems and personnel.

We made a Euros final because we avoided Italy, Spain, Belgium, Portugal and France on the other side of the draw. We haven’t beaten a genuine contender like that in my lifetime. 

I don’t know if as a team we have it in us to beat one, let alone potentially three or four of those types of teams in quick succession. 

[Rammy03]

Perspective is the word

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

South American sides generally fair better in warmer world cups. This one will be a warmer one. As for being flimsy, I’m not sure on what basis both Brazil and Argentina are on great form. Brazil’s spine is rock solid.

I wouldn’t take much notice of the Nations League. And I’m also giving England the benefit of the doubt here. It’s a bunch of glorified friendlies with several clubs testing out systems and personnel.

We made a Euros final because we avoided Italy, Spain, Belgium, Portugal and France on the other side of the draw. We haven’t beaten a genuine contender like that in my lifetime. 

I don’t know if as a team we have it in us to beat one, let alone potentially three or four of those types of teams in quick succession. 

I seem to remember the Germans dealing with Brazil and Argentina in South America. The South American teams can't cope with the European press and physicality and haven't been able to for a while. European players used to have less technical ability than the South Americans, now that isn't even the case. 

Brazil didn't even win the Copa America did they? 

For me, all top European sides have the benefit of the doubt against any South American side. 

Italy were the worse team over 90 against England in the final. Spain finished below Sweden in their group, Portugal also finished below the Germany that England beat and qualified as third place. The French couldn't even beat a distinctly average team in the Swiss. 

All the countries you named are purely from past prestige and were not great in Euro 2020, England could have beaten any of those sides. 

[Bris Vegas]

33 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I seem to remember the Germans dealing with Brazil and Argentina in South America. The South American teams can't cope with the European press and physicality and haven't been able to for a while. European players used to have less technical ability than the South Americans, now that isn't even the case. 

Brazil didn't even win the Copa America did they? 

For me, all top European sides have the benefit of the doubt against any South American side. 

Italy were the worse team over 90 against England in the final. Spain finished below Sweden in their group, Portugal also finished below the Germany that England beat and qualified as third place. The French couldn't even beat a distinctly average team in the Swiss. 

All the countries you named are purely from past prestige and were not great in Euro 2020, England could have beaten any of those sides. 

Germany were at the peak of their powers in 2014. They had a truly world class team with quality all over. Half the side won a treble with Bayern with a few others in that Dortmund side which reached the CL final.

That Germany side to the one in 2020, chalk and cheese.

Argentina are on a great run of form since Scolari became manager. They won Copa America, but Brazil went through their entire qualifying campaign unbeaten. Both will be among the favorites in Qatar.

England are a consistent side no doubt. But the best teams turn it on when it matters. You only have to look at Real Madrid in the CL. They went from losing to Sheriff Tiraspol to winning the damn thing.

Many times Portugal or France limp through the group before going far or winning it. Beating the best sides builds momentum and belief. Spain’s 2010 side lost to Switzerland en route to winning it, Germany lost to Serbia in 2010 and drew with Ghana in 2014.

Its easy to say England would have beaten those sides based off of those sides failing to win elsewhere. But it’s plain to see that England over the years have almost always fallen to the first big test they face (2002, 2004, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2018, 2020). The other years we have limped out.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Bris Vegas