Coronavirus

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Still, was probably worth speaking to them though. We might have even been able to help them out as well as them helping us.

The article you posted said we did participate in early discussions doesnt it?

[Angry Ram]

3 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm fine - just been weirdly busy with work and had some time off over easter

I've also found the current situation seems to make political debate a secondary concern. Make no mistake though - when this is over, I hope that there is an enquiry into the mishandling of the whole thing by our leaders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay Captain Hindsight.. I am sure you would have nailed everything first time.

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm fine - just been weirdly busy with work and had some time off over easter

I've also found the current situation seems to make political debate a secondary concern. Make no mistake though - when this is over, I hope that there is an enquiry into the mishandling of the whole thing by our leaders.

There will be a comprehensive review I am sure, and hopefully at that time the opposition will get involved and don’t see political debate as a secondary concern, if of course they can cut out their petty (and not so pretty) internal squabbling:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=29&ved=2ahUKEwjPp5yDmujoAhUGURUIHdQNDisQqOcBMBx6BAgHEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2020%2Fapr%2F13%2Flabour-leaked-report-party-unity-keir-starmer-corbyn-faction&usg=AOvVaw3MfTGM0IPj5qhmMds7dF-6

[Wolfie]

29 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

How is choosing not to participate in a group procurement exercise, then expecting to benefit from it, in any way continuing good relations with the EU?

Did we choose not to?. The last I heard was that it was a failure of communication that meant we missed the deadline. Stupid, yes, but not a concious choice.

[sage]

8 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

There will be a comprehensive review I am sure, and hopefully at that time the opposition will get involved and don’t see political debate as a secondary concern, if of course they can cut out their petty (and not so pretty) internal squabbling:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=29&ved=2ahUKEwjPp5yDmujoAhUGURUIHdQNDisQqOcBMBx6BAgHEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2020%2Fapr%2F13%2Flabour-leaked-report-party-unity-keir-starmer-corbyn-faction&usg=AOvVaw3MfTGM0IPj5qhmMds7dF-6

Last death throes of the Corbynites. Blame everyone else because St Jeremy is pure. The nonsense will take a long time to drain out of the party I'm afraid. 

[BaaLocks]

25 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Okay Captain Hindsight.. I am sure you would have nailed everything first time.

It's not Captain Hindsight though is it?

You can go back on this forum - a load of football fans shooting the poo - and see that there were questions asked about why Cheltenham was being allowed to go ahead while France was in lockdown, why Liverpool were allowed to play when PSG and others were behind closed doors, why the pubs were allowed to remain open when we had seen what had happened in Italy and other countries.

This is not hindsight, people were shouting it from the rooftops but Boris knew best, Daniel Hannin in the Telegraph knew best, the Sun knew best.

And, as a result of that people are dead today. When a forum that can't even agree if Chris Martin deserves a starting place can raise an opinion like that and the government cannot, when even Piers freaking Morgan can see it, even @G STAR RAM can see it and I've got him on block then you can't say it's a bunch of after timers calling it.

It is not Captain Hindsight and don't even try to gaslight people into believing it is.

[BaaLocks]

14 minutes ago, sage said:

Last death throes of the Corbynites. Blame everyone else because St Jeremy is pure. The nonsense will take a long time to drain out of the party I'm afraid. 

Hopefully to the first part of that, and I say that as someone who really thought he was the reincarnation of Tony Benn and everything that could be good about left wing politics. Yup, I was wrong on that one.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

It's not Captain Hindsight though is it?

You can go back on this forum - a load of football fans shooting the poo - and see that there were questions asked about why Cheltenham was being allowed to go ahead while France was in lockdown, why Liverpool were allowed to play when PSG and others were behind closed doors, why the pubs were allowed to remain open when we had seen what had happened in Italy and other countries.

This is not hindsight, people were shouting it from the rooftops but Boris knew best, Daniel Hannin in the Telegraph knew best, the Sun knew best.

And, as a result of that people are dead today. When a forum that can't even agree if Chris Martin deserves a starting place can raise an opinion like that and the government cannot, when even Piers freaking Morgan can see it, even @G STAR RAM can see it and I've got him on block then you can't say it's a bunch of after timers calling it.

It is not Captain Hindsight and don't even try to gaslight people into believing it is.

Thanks - saved me a job typing that response ?

It's not even about hindsight anyway - it's about an official enquiry into what advice was received and when, what decisions were taken and when/who by, and whether those decisions caused needless loss of life. The fact Boris sat on TV and nonchalantly talked about taking it on the chin and letting it run through the community suggests he made a very bad choice somewhere along the line

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

And, as a result of that people are dead today.  @G STAR RAM

The poster obviously wont see this because he has me on block but perhaps they will see it re-quoted.

Is there any scientific evidence that lives were lost by not locking down sooner?

Death rates are still very high 4 weeks after we locked down.

Sweden have not locked down at all but still have lower death rates than us.

[Uptherams]

44 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Okay Captain Hindsight.. I am sure you would have nailed everything first time.

I think we are going to be discussing Kung Flu on the terms of an overreaction. 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Thanks - saved me a job typing that response ?

It's not even about hindsight anyway - it's about an official enquiry into what advice was received and when, what decisions were taken and when/who by, and whether those decisions caused needless loss of life. The fact Boris sat on TV and nonchalantly talked about taking it on the chin and letting it run through the community suggests he made a very bad choice somewhere along the line

This may sound a bit silly but the only way that more lives could have been guaranteed to have been saved would have been closing every bored and locking everyone in their house, without exception, until the virus had disappeared. 

The measures put in place since day one have been to try and manage the virus as best as possible and thereby not putting the NHS into a position where it could not cope.

[Sith Happens]

12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Thanks - saved me a job typing that response ?

It's not even about hindsight anyway - it's about an official enquiry into what advice was received and when, what decisions were taken and when/who by, and whether those decisions caused needless loss of life. The fact Boris sat on TV and nonchalantly talked about taking it on the chin and letting it run through the community suggests he made a very bad choice somewhere along the line

He didnt, he said it was one opinion but did not say it was one he advocated. He said it was about getting balance and he was listening to all the advice.

But of course you are right, as should happen everywhere there should be an enquiry into what happened, what was done well and what could have been handled better.

I think there will be lessons to be learned all around the world from what has happened.

I do think this thread is drifting into politics again, of which of course ive just contributed to. I think some of the discussions being held should be left in the politics thread.

 

[Eddie]

53 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sweden's measures much more mild than ours, not reflected in the figures.

That's because they addressed the problem correctly right from the outset - test, trace and isolate.

[Eddie]

38 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Did we choose not to?. The last I heard was that it was a failure of communication that meant we missed the deadline. Stupid, yes, but not a concious choice.

No, it was a matter of competence. We laud our brave prime minister, but this is the utter moron who spent a fortnight going around hospitals looking for every hand-shaking photo-opportunity he could - and then he got sick.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That's because they addressed the problem correctly right from the outset - test, trace and isolate.

They have tested 5416 per million of population.

The UK have tested 5637 per million, Spain 12,833 and Italy 17,758.

[Highgate]

12 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

It's not Captain Hindsight though is it?

You can go back on this forum - a load of football fans shooting the poo - and see that there were questions asked about why Cheltenham was being allowed to go ahead while France was in lockdown, why Liverpool were allowed to play when PSG and others were behind closed doors, why the pubs were allowed to remain open when we had seen what had happened in Italy and other countries.

This is not hindsight, people were shouting it from the rooftops but Boris knew best, Daniel Hannin in the Telegraph knew best, the Sun knew best.

And, as a result of that people are dead today. When a forum that can't even agree if Chris Martin deserves a starting place can raise an opinion like that and the government cannot, when even Piers freaking Morgan can see it, even @G STAR RAM can see it and I've got him on block then you can't say it's a bunch of after timers calling it.

It is not Captain Hindsight and don't even try to gaslight people into believing it is.

So many countries have made huge mistakes though and continue to do so in some cases.  All the more tragic when it's clear that a few countries (S.Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand) have been showing the world clearly how to respond to a crises such as this. S.Korea and Taiwan are particularly impressive given that they were exposed before most were.

A lot of soul searching and reassessment will have to be done by the vast majority of governments after all this is over.

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

This may sound a bit silly but the only way that more lives could have been guaranteed to have been saved would have been closing every bored and locking everyone in their house, without exception, until the virus had disappeared. 

 

Most sensible point you have ever made on this board - and as a scientist, I would have supported exactly such a measure.

The problem is, because we would not have had a continually escalating death toll as we do now, people would have said "It's Y2K all over again - what a ridiculous over-reaction".

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

They have tested 5416 per million of population.

The UK have tested 5637 per million, Spain 12,833 and Italy 17,758.

Their testing and tracing was from the outset, the same as South Korea. Two months on when an epidemic has become a pandemic, testing is largely an irrelevance and tracing a pointless exercise, relatively speaking.

How's the old Tory policy of "Herd immunity" going now, eh? The genie is out of the bottle.

[Tamworthram]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The poster obviously wont see this because he has me on block but perhaps they will see it re-quoted.

Is there any scientific evidence that lives were lost by not locking down sooner?

Death rates are still very high 4 weeks after we locked down.

Sweden have not locked down at all but still have lower death rates than us.

I wonder if you can really compare the UK to Sweden though. Maybe it is valid.

However, perhaps Norway is more similar to Sweden in terms of many things including population density (although I do accept that large areas of Sweden and Norway are probably very sparsely populated).

Population per square mile are: UK 710 whereas Sweden and Norway are only 60 and 44 respectively.

Reported deaths per million of population are: UK 178 and Sweden 102 Whereas, in Norway where I think the lock down is much stricter than Sweden the rate is 26. 

I summary, I think there are far too many variables to draw any definite conclusions when comparing different countries.

[ariotofmyown]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

No, it was a matter of competence. We laud our brave prime minister, but this is the utter moron who spent a fortnight going around hospitals looking for every hand-shaking photo-opportunity he could - and then he got sick.

Yeah, but he is a fighter init. Unlike those cowards who didn't survive presumably.