The Politics Thread 2020

[1of4]

If Rishi Sunak is such a great politician. Maybe he should take over from David Frost, the government's chief negotiator with the EU. As it appears that the trade deal talks aren't making much progress, which could be a problem.

At the start of the year, Johnson stated that the government wouldn't be seeking an extension of the transition period, if a trade deal with the EU wasn't signed by December. Didn't he also say, that if there had been no significant progress in the talks by June. He would immediately terminate the talks and cut short the transition period.

So if that's the case, it looks as if there's only a few weeks left before the ERG and all the brexiteers finally get their wish. Unless of cause Sunak can ride to Johnson's rescue and improve on the disaster Frost is making of the trade talks. 

[ramit]

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Oh absolutely.  Gene was a smart man, am pretty sure he knew of the charade.  You know the one, good cop, bad cop, dependent on your indoctrination.

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

whatever people on all sides thought about a huge range of previous prime ministers, there was at least an element of public duty to them, however disagreeably to some they might have chosen to express it. To even suggest it of Johnson would be screamingly absurd and everyone knows it. There is literally nothing there except personal ambition – and we’re all condemned to live within his limitations in a situation where they’re at their very deadliest."

Same for all of them. Ego. Vanity. Power. Money. Greed. 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

7 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Kind of unbelievable really that the brain-washing went so deep that people are still saying "yeah but what about Corbyn" long after he ceased to be of any relevance to any national debate.

I hope you get the closure you seek gritty x

The point I was making is that for a lot of the time line hindsight is great looking back. You have said the virus was reported in December yet you are trying to say the whole world should have been an expert on it in two to three months. Scientists will say you can’t rely on just one set of results which we had from China by February then by the end of February Italy were suffering at a far greater rate than China. You could argue that the previous epidemic was a flu which was handled reasonably well. So previous strategies that worked didn’t for this outbreak. 
 

The main thing I see from the media poo storm and you left wing nuts is you seem to think the right decision has to be made two weeks before any scientific evidence had been found.

Oh I forgot to add you keep mentioning the EU PPE purchasing scheme. How successful was it? Why did they buy from the U.K.?

[Archied]

12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Bloody hell has anyone else seen the clip where Nicola Sturgeon says 'I dont know what stay alert means'?

How the hell can she run a political party if she is that stupid?

 

To be fair she meant in the context of this virus and she’s far from being the only one that feels that

[Archied]

10 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said:

What do people make of Rishi Sunak?

In my eyes he's making a pretty good fist of it so far, certainly better than I think his predecessor would have done.

Not bad for someone the media told us would be Cummings patsy, he looks the most competent of all ministers, despite his political inexperience.

Impressively for a politician, he seems able to resist the outside forces clamouring one way or the other, and actually listen to and address the issues that the people he serves have.

 

Yep I would say I find him more reassuring and competent than anybody being put in front of the camera for the gov

[Archied]

6 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Perhaps she did goad him with her question, and perhaps she did play the racist card. However, in my view Trump is his own enemy.

He appears to have only two positions with this crisis - 1) blame others for failings and 2) accentuate the positives of what he has done. Last nights 30 second spat perfectly encapsulated his stance since early March.

Why stand up at a press conference behind a big banner saying “America leads the world in testing” which is quite an ambiguous statement, and is of limited import at a time when the infection rate is rising across many of the states, and 80k (probably more) have succumbed to the disease.  It’s the equivalent of him pooping his bed every night for two months, but having a banner which says “America leads the world in washing powder production”.

To be fair the general consensus worldwide is that testing is the best way to beat the virus so if the USA do lead the world on testing numbers I can see why he would stand up in front of a banner proclaiming that ,I just know our gov would do just the same we’re we leading the world on testing numbers?

in the case of deflection it seems to me there’s two methods , the blame game ala trump or or flat out denial of any mistakes , take your pick

im no trump fan but let’s be fair and honest with our criticism, there’s plenty there to fairly put forward

[TramRam]

7 hours ago, 1of4 said:

If Rishi Sunak is such a great politician. Maybe he should take over from David Frost, the government's chief negotiator with the EU. As it appears that the trade deal talks aren't making much progress, which could be a problem.

At the start of the year, Johnson stated that the government wouldn't be seeking an extension of the transition period, if a trade deal with the EU wasn't signed by December. Didn't he also say, that if there had been no significant progress in the talks by June. He would immediately terminate the talks and cut short the transition period.

So if that's the case, it looks as if there's only a few weeks left before the ERG and all the brexiteers finally get their wish. Unless of cause Sunak can ride to Johnson's rescue and improve on the disaster Frost is making of the trade talks. 

So to capitulate to Barnier/EUs every negotiating offer is a "disaster" is it?, Or perphaps we should call back Olly Robbins...sorry Sir Olly Robbins who at every level was told what to accept and what to do...with a pat on the head.

Perphaps you don't understand the word "negotiations" "discussion aimed at reaching an agreement " i've put it in bold writing for you incase you miss it.

Now it appears Barnier is squealing like a stuck pig, As we have someone who can negotiate, They want to rob all the fish in British waters, Frost aint having it.

[Comrade 86]

 

[ariotofmyown]

7 hours ago, 1of4 said:

If Rishi Sunak is such a great politician. Maybe he should take over from David Frost, the government's chief negotiator with the EU. As it appears that the trade deal talks aren't making much progress, which could be a problem.

At the start of the year, Johnson stated that the government wouldn't be seeking an extension of the transition period, if a trade deal with the EU wasn't signed by December. Didn't he also say, that if there had been no significant progress in the talks by June. He would immediately terminate the talks and cut short the transition period.

So if that's the case, it looks as if there's only a few weeks left before the ERG and all the brexiteers finally get their wish. Unless of cause Sunak can ride to Johnson's rescue and improve on the disaster Frost is making of the trade talks. 

No one knows what the 'short term pain' of an orgainsed Brexit will be, let alone a no deal Brexit, that was never really mentioned before the referendum.

The length of economic pain from Coronovirus seems like it's going to be longer than 'short term'. 

Will Sunak think that the Brexit pain will be a drop in the ocean vs Coronavirus? Or will it be a double blow to the UK and make things much worse than they are already shaping up to be?

With experts back in vogue, and with those wartime references towards the EU looking even more petty now, could we see a decline in the appetite for yet more economic woe? 

 

[Comrade 86]

 

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

To be fair the general consensus worldwide is that testing is the best way to beat the virus so if the USA do lead the world on testing numbers I can see why he would stand up in front of a banner proclaiming that ,I just know our gov would do just the same we’re we leading the world on testing numbers?

in the case of deflection it seems to me there’s two methods , the blame game ala trump or or flat out denial of any mistakes , take your pick

im no trump fan but let’s be fair and honest with our criticism, there’s plenty there to fairly put forward

I am pretty confident our Government wouldn’t produce such a banner, nor many other western democracies, but l accept that’s only my opinion. Trump would scream fake news at this link because it comes from CNN but it reflects the widespread reporting of his claim:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwiDut6ctrDpAhV7aRUIHe5tBNEQ0PADMAB6BAgNEAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2020%2F05%2F12%2Fhealth%2Fus-coronavirus-testing-per-capita%2Findex.html&usg=AOvVaw1BU97rQA1gNxBs_h0s8opo

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

So what does it mean?

Report people breaking social distancing guidelines?

Keep an eye on shops not cleaning down counter tops?

Wear a mask?

Don't eat take away?

Don't fall asleep on the tube?

Whine on message boards about journalists not being fair?

It means next to nothing.

There literally isn't a definition without an exact and specific context.

This isn't an opinion I'm offering here, it's a real life fact.

It is  literally impossible to quantify.

But, and this is a big but, if it all goes south the purveyors of such fine wisdom can say, 'But we said to stay alert, so it's not our fault'

I have a bunch of lemmings wanting to know when you're up for a trip to the seaside. 

 

Yeah I take it back, I think you're right.

It literally has no meaning.

So the new guidance must mean that I can just resume my old life.

Walk round not worrying about being in close proximity, coughing in peoples faces, touching everything and not worrying about hygiene.

Maybe the Government have for it majorly wrong if they have tried to trust people with using common sense but I think deep down everyone really knows what is being asked of them but it makes a better story to play dumb and have no idea.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

12 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Easy to be popular when you're giving stuff away. 

We'll see what he's got in the brain box when he has to work out how to get it all back. Or when people start realizing it wasn't a gift in the first place.

Spot on. The EU could gain a competitive advantage on the international money markets if they are able to find a way to pool their creditworthiness so that countries like Italy and Spain can repay at least some of their Corona-related debt on the same terms as Germany and the Netherlands. This is a massive if and it will be hugely difficult to pull it off, but the stakes are very high.

Meanwhile, Britain will be faced with the problem of putting up barriers to trade with the EU whilst at the same time trying to cut a beautiful trade deal with Trump (!) to make up for its lost trade. I somehow don!t think the international government bond markets will be very impressed.

[ramsbottom]

8 hours ago, RamNut said:

Same for all of them. Ego. Vanity. Power. Money. Greed. 

 

Yeah but all the previous incumbents were a LOT better at disguising that fact.  And they at least gave the impression they knew what the funk they were doing.  Boris looks like he couldn't even give you directions to his own toilet...

15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Bloody hell has anyone else seen the clip where Nicola Sturgeon says 'I dont know what stay alert means'?

How the hell can she run a political party if she is that stupid?

 

Well I must be stupid too then, as I'm still trying to figure out WTF it means.  It implies the virus is something physical, that you spot creeping up on you, you can't, so staying alert makes no funkin difference to your well being.  Without clear guidelines people will take the piss.  It's like leaving your teenage kids to look after the house with when you go away for the weekend.  If you kept the drinks cabinet locked, told them no more than 5 mates round at a time, and no posting the fact they've got the place to themselves on social media, you may come home to little more than a couple of smashed plates and a bad smell from the toilet.  You tell them to do what they like but to use their common sense you'll come home to your Duresta sofa impaled by the TV aerial, and your front garden on fire...

[A Ram for All Seasons]

3 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Well I must be stupid too then, as I'm still trying to figure out WTF it means. 

"Stay alert" means keep your eyes on your wallet so nobody pinches it.

[maxjam]

8 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Well I must be stupid too then, as I'm still trying to figure out WTF it means.  It implies the virus is something physical, that you spot creeping up on you, you can't, so staying alert makes very funkin difference to your well being.

No it doesn't, where has everyone's common sense disappeared to lately?!?

Staying alert can mean not walking to near the edge of a cliff or not walking to far out sea on the beach as the tides coming in when you're on holiday.  It can also mean keeping your wits about you whilst your out and about and crossing the road (as I do often) whilst I'm out walking the dog or not walking into a crowded shop but waiting outide for it to empty. 

Staying alert imples that you use your own common sense and judge your surroundings.  If the instructions were anything more you'd have people doing stuff they shouldn't be because 'it wasn't on the list'.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

No it doesn't, where has everyone's common sense disappeared to lately?!?

Staying alert can mean not walking to near the edge of a cliff or not walking to far out sea on the beach as the tides coming in when you're on holiday.  It can also mean keeping your wits about you whilst your out and about and crossing the road (as I do often) whilst I'm out walking the dog or not walking into a crowded shop but waiting outide for it to empty. 

Staying alert imples that you use your own common sense and judge your surroundings.  If the instructions were anything more you'd have people doing stuff they shouldn't be because 'it wasn't on the list'.

Yes but I've looked in the dictionary at stay alert and it say anything about staying 2m away from people so I just cant understand it!

[ariotofmyown]

I'm starting to think that 'Stay Alert' was a deliberately sub-optimal slogan so everyone focuses on that word, rather than look at everything else.

There have been so many problems with what the government have being doing, I don't think the precise wording of yet another throw away slogan is of much importance.

Moving Coronavirus patients to care homes looks to be a much more serious problem than 'alertgate', yet have seen much less news or comment on this.

[Wolfie]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes but I've looked in the dictionary at stay alert and it say anything about staying 2m away from people so I just cant understand it!

There's a lot of this going on:

Noun. willful ignorance (uncountable) (idiomatic, law) A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt.