The Politics Thread 2020

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, Archied said:

To be fair we were trumpeting lower comparative death rates until that went out the window, we were/are trumpeting our comparative financial packages to help businesses, we were trumpeting our wonderful comparative readiness for a pandemic before that took a turn ?

as I say I’m no trump supporter but fairs fair

We stopped using the international comparison charts this week when it became clear (and frankly, it has been clear for several weeks) that the only reason we are not the worst in the entire world is that Trump's America are on the same planet.

It's no coincidence that both governments were in a state of near denial for the first few weeks - as were Russia, of course - and they are now making a dramatic surge towards the top of the table.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Errrr, that'd make some modicum of sense if they were the ones calling their fellow Rams 'thick' or 'stupid' every 5 minutes, but they're not, are they? 

Anyway, I'll exit this 'debate' here. You have a great day old chap.

Being fellow Rams have got nothing to do with it.

You appear to have forgotten the previous 3 1/2 years where accusations of Conservative Leave voters being stupid racists has been the norm.

The usual hypocrisy that has now become the norm.

Have a great day too and dont forget to stay alert.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Highgate said:

Surely the absolute number of tests is a meaningless figure for someone to be bragging about.  It is the wealthiest country in the world and the 3rd most populous, there is little point comparing its total number of tests with that of Belgium or Israel. The US leads in the total number of tests carried out (although I can't find a figure for China) but lags behind many other countries in the number of tests carried out per capita. 

But a banner saying they are 32nd in the world on testing per capita probably wouldn't look so appealing. 

 

You’ve missed the point either by mistake or on purpose , is he alone in trumpeting the positive and avoiding the neg? 

[Gritstone Ram]

38 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

That's what happens when you don't have common standards for consumer protection and product quality.

I don’t know what the circumstances are but I bet the suppliers haven’t done themselves any favours by supplying substandard PPE. Also the news will get around so I suspect most countries trying to source the equipment will know what happened.

[Gritstone Ram]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

We stopped using the international comparison charts this week when it became clear (and frankly, it has been clear for several weeks) that the only reason we are not the worst in the entire world is that Trump's America are on the same planet.

It's no coincidence that both governments were in a state of near denial for the first few weeks - as were Russia, of course - and they are now making a dramatic surge towards the top of the table.

Obviously because the whole world is using the same counting mechanism so every country can compare accurately each day with each other. How have Russia had so many infections yet so few deaths?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

12 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I don’t know what the circumstances are but I bet the suppliers haven’t done themselves any favours by supplying substandard PPE. Also the news will get around so I suspect most countries trying to source the equipment will know what happened.

We are living in strange times, but this sort of thing will become more commonplace in future.

[GboroRam]

 

[Gritstone Ram]

14 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

We are living in strange times, but this sort of thing will become more commonplace in future.

My advice would be don’t buy anything from Turkey everyone with half a brain knows it’ll be a fake.

[Gritstone Ram]

26 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

 

God that kid is ugly.

[Archied]

Just now, Van Gritters said:

God that kid is ugly.

Is it a young boris ?

[Archied]

It’s amazing how quickly the debate / argument reverts to political bias and lines of defend our own and attack the others side are rigidly followed whether that be red v blue ,pro trump anti trump ?

[Highgate]

40 minutes ago, Archied said:

You’ve missed the point either by mistake or on purpose , is he alone in trumpeting the positive and avoiding the neg? 

Delightful pun there, well done.

No, of course he isn't alone in spinning the facts to his advantage.  But have we reached the stage that we simply allow politicians to peddle deliberately misleading information merely because there are plenty of other politicians attempting the same? 

Like it or not, Trump is the most prominent politician on the planet, with the most power.  I'd be in favour of people highlighting and correcting the misinformation spouted by any politician to be honest, but why not start with the most prominent example.  And he is not only prominent example but also an extremely frequent disseminator of lies and misinformation.  I don't think the mere fact that other politicians are also sometimes guilty of similar dishonesty should be allowed to shield Trump from criticism of such deliberate manipulation of the facts.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, LB_DCFC said:

Boris caught lying in the commons again, and Starmer was immediately ready to call him up on it. People must be held accountable for mistakes.

Or is he?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52606985

I have heard that hospitals have sent out patients to care homes that may have been either carrying the virus or it in incubation. I think the care home strategy has been a total shambles.

[TramRam]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Well, the vast majority of old people that I know have been basically self-isolating and socially distancing for the last 7 weeks - and if the only people queuing (hopefully socially distancing is the process) have been doing likewise, avoiding contact with others in the process, why would that be any more of a risk than, say, going to the supermarket?

When you are retired, your garden might well be the only thing you have to look forward to. What is the point of just existing?

I went to B and Q today for some plants and wood stain, They have 2 meter markers, A system where you zig zag into the front of the store, You wait there and are told what you can and can not do, Card payments only and a one way system in operation, No entry signs in some aisles, A lot of staff to help guide you when you vear off the stores rules, No Children allowed AT ALL, Screens at the checkout and stand well away from the checkout staff.

People old and young were doing as asked.

[Gritstone Ram]

5 hours ago, Eddie said:

If you are trying to reduce the burden to the nation of pension costs and healthcare in old age, I'm afraid that it makes perfect sense.

That is a joke right oh and in the process bankrupt to country too. Jeez!!!

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Van Gritters said:

Obviously because the whole world is using the same counting mechanism so every country can compare accurately each day with each other. How have Russia had so many infections yet so few deaths?

I have maintained all along that the key figure has always been the number of infections. Until recently, the UK has been conducting precious few tests, so if you take that to the logical conclusion and only test the most serious cases (and the most serious of all, of course, are those in ICUs or the mortuary), then you will have a relatively low infection rate and a high death toll.

However, if you undertake a policy of mass testing and contact tracing which some are doing, you will pick up many of the asymptomatic and less serious cases, hence you will see a higher density of infection but a lower death rate.

It's quite straightforward really.

 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

That is a joke right oh and in the process bankrupt to country too. Jeez!!!

Why are you so good at missing the point?

[Eddie]

30 minutes ago, TramRam said:

I went to B and Q today for some plants and wood stain, They have 2 meter markers, A system where you zig zag into the front of the store, You wait there and are told what you can and can not do, Card payments only and a one way system in operation, No entry signs in some aisles, A lot of staff to help guide you when you vear off the stores rules, No Children allowed AT ALL, Screens at the checkout and stand well away from the checkout staff.

People old and young were doing as asked.

I'm hoping that my brother-in-law will be able to pick me up some compost over the next few days, but I don't wish to put him in any peril. Thanks for the information - that's reassuring.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, LB_DCFC said:

Boris caught lying in the commons again, and Starmer was immediately ready to call him up on it. People must be held accountable for mistakes.

Or have Labour been caught using selective quotes that are then misleading?

Frankly, I don't really trust any of them.

 

QUOTE:

[Gritstone Ram]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I have maintained all along that the key figure has always been the number of infections. Until recently, the UK has been conducting precious few tests, so if you take that to the logical conclusion and only test the most serious cases (and the most serious of all, of course, are those in ICUs or the mortuary), then you will have a relatively low infection rate and a high death toll.

However, if you undertake a policy of mass testing and contact tracing which some are doing, you will pick up many of the asymptomatic and less serious cases, hence you will see a higher density of infection but a lower death rate.

It's quite straightforward really.

 

I think you are right about the testing Eddie and if Germany is anything to go by the proof is there, however, we were not set up or didn’t have the capacity to carry out the kind of testing that you need to do it effectively so in that scenario you have to look at an alternative damage limitation. 
It looks like that much focus was put on the NHS that the care homes were overlooked. That is where a big miss calculation into infections and deaths was made.  Early on listening to the scientist on the briefings they were giving figures of 10% death rates in care homes it looks 4x that.