v Barnsley (H) - Matchday Thread

[Ram8]

 

Sorry dcfc4ever .. “Rooney and LAWRENCE link up will be an EXCITING mix to watch” .. ? Hopefully not ! 

Now, Rooney, Huddlestone and Martin together in the same team, THAT would be REALLY something to watch !! 

Three players with such sophisticated footballing brains and sublime first touches and passing ability in the same team, that doesn’t happen too often, and WE have the opportunity to do it .. PLEASE Mr. Cocu ! 

And don’t anyone say, too old and slow, we now have the young energetic ‘legs’ in the team to facilitate such a feast of creative football, could be a joy to watch .. 

 

[Srg]

Made hard work of it in the end, and would have certainly been a different game entirely if we had scored 2 or 3 early goals like the chances we had suggested we should have. They were then able to make a tactical sub which sorted their mess out somewhat and made it a bit more of a contest.

The huge change over the past two games is the way we are setting up on the pitch. We are getting much closer together in both an attacking and particularly a defensive sense, which is meaning we are much more able to get stuck into first and second challenges and being able to spring from that. Couple that with a bit more youthful energy and enthusiasm and it's making all the difference. Previously, we were quite expansive in our set up, but didn't have the pace or willingness to do it defensively, nor the pace and quality to do it in possession. Ironically, it's probably the first times we've set up like this since Shinnie was in the team when we hit a little form then too.

Thought Max Bird was really good last night. His athleticism and energy showing through, winning the ball, carrying and giving really getting us going at times. He does a lot of unnoticed stuff, but he still has an eye for a pass on top of that. Think he will continue to get better and we are now seeing what the academy set up has seen him all this time.

Knight not as spectacular as the other night, but can't expect that every time. Still a good performance from him. Max Lowe continuing to channel Roberto Carlos at the moment, and long may that continue. Waghorn was truly horrendous until he scored, then started to win a couple of headers and seemed to grow from that - but not letting that hide from his terrible performance prior. Marriott needed that goal, but he needs to stop trying to chip the keeper... it must be 3 or 4 tries in the past 2 games which have not even been close. Finally, Hamer is not better than Roos. He isn't massively better from crosses to the point where it outweighs Roos' ability with his feet, and the shot stopping is a wash at best.

I get Morgan Whittaker hasn't shown a lot in the first team, but I think some people aren't being very patient with him. He's often coming up with sole instruction of just disrupting their backline's distribution late in games. I have watched a fair amount of his academy games and he more often than not he played as a wide forward, not this central role he's playing now for all of 5 or 10 minutes a game. Give him some time, and let him actually come on in a situation where he has more than one instruction.

With that said, the substitutions did kill us last night. It was a difficult situation to be in as you could see we needed legs but we also didn't really want to change it, and the options available were extremely limited. However, Mr Tickle was not the sub. He looked completely lost, he confused the midfield and Max Lowe in equal measures to himself. It basically killed any hope of another goal and invited all the pressure in the world until the end of the game. A more simple sub would've been Whittaker earlier for Waghorn to provide those legs and not mess with things unduly. Don't agree with Martin, as we already had Rooney who can't run around like you'd want ideally and we needed to keep pressing.

Finally, Craig Ramage is an absolute fool. Listening to him on the way home, he really is clueless. He had a 10-15 minute rant on transfers where he didn't make sense, showed he didn't know much and contradicted himself. I can't imagine anyone would have listened to that and agreed with anything he was saying, if you could even decipher what he was trying to say.

[Srg]

7 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

 

Now, Rooney, Huddlestone and Martin together in the same team, THAT would be REALLY something to watch !! 

 

When are they tracking back to defend? 3-5 business days?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Max Bird is an absolute find. His emergence could potentially solve a problem we've had since Thorne fell to bits.

[Mafiabob]

11 minutes ago, Srg said:

Made hard work of it in the end, and would have certainly been a different game entirely if we had scored 2 or 3 early goals like the chances we had suggested we should have. They were then able to make a tactical sub which sorted their mess out somewhat and made it a bit more of a contest.

The huge change over the past two games is the way we are setting up on the pitch. We are getting much closer together in both an attacking and particularly a defensive sense, which is meaning we are much more able to get stuck into first and second challenges and being able to spring from that. Couple that with a bit more youthful energy and enthusiasm and it's making all the difference. Previously, we were quite expansive in our set up, but didn't have the pace or willingness to do it defensively, nor the pace and quality to do it in possession. Ironically, it's probably the first times we've set up like this since Shinnie was in the team when we hit a little form then too.

Thought Max Bird was really good last night. His athleticism and energy showing through, winning the ball, carrying and giving really getting us going at times. He does a lot of unnoticed stuff, but he still has an eye for a pass on top of that. Think he will continue to get better and we are now seeing what the academy set up has seen him all this time.

Knight not as spectacular as the other night, but can't expect that every time. Still a good performance from him. Max Lowe continuing to channel Roberto Carlos at the moment, and long may that continue. Waghorn was truly horrendous until he scored, then started to win a couple of headers and seemed to grow from that - but not letting that hide from his terrible performance prior. Marriott needed that goal, but he needs to stop trying to chip the keeper... it must be 3 or 4 tries in the past 2 games which have not even been close. Finally, Hamer is not better than Roos. He isn't massively better from crosses to the point where it outweighs Roos' ability with his feet, and the shot stopping is a wash at best.

I get Morgan Whittaker hasn't shown a lot in the first team, but I think some people aren't being very patient with him. He's often coming up with sole instruction of just disrupting their backline's distribution late in games. I have watched a fair amount of his academy games and he more often than not he played as a wide forward, not this central role he's playing now for all of 5 or 10 minutes a game. Give him some time, and let him actually come on in a situation where he has more than one instruction.

With that said, the substitutions did kill us last night. It was a difficult situation to be in as you could see we needed legs but we also didn't really want to change it, and the options available were extremely limited. However, Mr Tickle was not the sub. He looked completely lost, he confused the midfield and Max Lowe in equal measures to himself. It basically killed any hope of another goal and invited all the pressure in the world until the end of the game. A more simple sub would've been Whittaker earlier for Waghorn to provide those legs and not mess with things unduly. Don't agree with Martin, as we already had Rooney who can't run around like you'd want ideally and we needed to keep pressing.

Finally, Craig Ramage is an absolute fool. Listening to him on the way home, he really is clueless. He had a 10-15 minute rant on transfers where he didn't make sense, showed he didn't know much and contradicted himself. I can't imagine anyone would have listened to that and agreed with anything he was saying, if you could even decipher what he was trying to say.

Disagree on Waghorn...... 

[1967Ram]

13 minutes ago, Srg said:

Made hard work of it in the end, and would have certainly been a different game entirely if we had scored 2 or 3 early goals like the chances we had suggested we should have. They were then able to make a tactical sub which sorted their mess out somewhat and made it a bit more of a contest.

The huge change over the past two games is the way we are setting up on the pitch. We are getting much closer together in both an attacking and particularly a defensive sense, which is meaning we are much more able to get stuck into first and second challenges and being able to spring from that. Couple that with a bit more youthful energy and enthusiasm and it's making all the difference. Previously, we were quite expansive in our set up, but didn't have the pace or willingness to do it defensively, nor the pace and quality to do it in possession. Ironically, it's probably the first times we've set up like this since Shinnie was in the team when we hit a little form then too.

Thought Max Bird was really good last night. His athleticism and energy showing through, winning the ball, carrying and giving really getting us going at times. He does a lot of unnoticed stuff, but he still has an eye for a pass on top of that. Think he will continue to get better and we are now seeing what the academy set up has seen him all this time.

Knight not as spectacular as the other night, but can't expect that every time. Still a good performance from him. Max Lowe continuing to channel Roberto Carlos at the moment, and long may that continue. Waghorn was truly horrendous until he scored, then started to win a couple of headers and seemed to grow from that - but not letting that hide from his terrible performance prior. Marriott needed that goal, but he needs to stop trying to chip the keeper... it must be 3 or 4 tries in the past 2 games which have not even been close. Finally, Hamer is not better than Roos. He isn't massively better from crosses to the point where it outweighs Roos' ability with his feet, and the shot stopping is a wash at best.

I get Morgan Whittaker hasn't shown a lot in the first team, but I think some people aren't being very patient with him. He's often coming up with sole instruction of just disrupting their backline's distribution late in games. I have watched a fair amount of his academy games and he more often than not he played as a wide forward, not this central role he's playing now for all of 5 or 10 minutes a game. Give him some time, and let him actually come on in a situation where he has more than one instruction.

With that said, the substitutions did kill us last night. It was a difficult situation to be in as you could see we needed legs but we also didn't really want to change it, and the options available were extremely limited. However, Mr Tickle was not the sub. He looked completely lost, he confused the midfield and Max Lowe in equal measures to himself. It basically killed any hope of another goal and invited all the pressure in the world until the end of the game. A more simple sub would've been Whittaker earlier for Waghorn to provide those legs and not mess with things unduly. Don't agree with Martin, as we already had Rooney who can't run around like you'd want ideally and we needed to keep pressing.

Finally, Craig Ramage is an absolute fool. Listening to him on the way home, he really is clueless. He had a 10-15 minute rant on transfers where he didn't make sense, showed he didn't know much and contradicted himself. I can't imagine anyone would have listened to that and agreed with anything he was saying, if you could even decipher what he was trying to say.

Mr Tickle - brilliant ?

[Srg]

1 minute ago, Mafiabob said:

Disagree on Waghorn...... 

Can you state why? He didn't win a header, had a teflon first touch and kept trying to flick it on and repeatedly didn't come off, rather than just getting hold of it and keeping it. As I say, things seemed to transform once he scored, but he was easily the worst player on the pitch prior. Must say you're the first person I've seen who hasn't said he was awful.

[Tamworthram]

22 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

 

Sorry dcfc4ever .. “Rooney and LAWRENCE link up will be an EXCITING mix to watch” .. ? Hopefully not ! 

Now, Rooney, Huddlestone and Martin together in the same team, THAT would be REALLY something to watch !! 

Three players with such sophisticated footballing brains and sublime first touches and passing ability in the same team, that doesn’t happen too often, and WE have the opportunity to do it .. PLEASE Mr. Cocu ! 

And don’t anyone say, too old and slow, we now have the young energetic ‘legs’ in the team to facilitate such a feast of creative football, could be a joy to watch .. 

 

Can't really see the Huddz/Rooney partnership working. Maybe Shinnie in there to do the running around but I don't think there was much wrong with the team selection last night (shame about the subs though).

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 minutes ago, Srg said:

Can you state why? He didn't win a header, had a teflon first touch and kept trying to flick it on and repeatedly didn't come off, rather than just getting hold of it and keeping it. As I say, things seemed to transform once he scored, but he was easily the worst player on the pitch prior. Must say you're the first person I've seen who hasn't said he was awful.

For me, he's a big reason why Marriott has had so many good chances in the last few games. He works quite well in a front two.

[Mafiabob]

8 minutes ago, Srg said:

Can you state why? He didn't win a header, had a teflon first touch and kept trying to flick it on and repeatedly didn't come off, rather than just getting hold of it and keeping it. As I say, things seemed to transform once he scored, but he was easily the worst player on the pitch prior. Must say you're the first person I've seen who hasn't said he was awful.

Thought he harried defenders into mistakes, laid a cracker on a plate for Marriott to score early on which was missed, thought he won more headers than given credit for and was a all round general nuisance as well.

Cracking finish as well for the winner. What gets me, and we do this with any player..... is that they have to be either terrible or amazing when describing..... Waghorn wasn’t either of them last night, but did the job he was expected to do. What more can you ask for there. 

[Ghost of Clough]

The subs made perfect sense to me. Waghorn, Marriott, Rooney and Lowe were the players struggling the most (fitness wise) more than anyone else.
Bringing Malone on meant that we had extra defensive cover in the last 20 minutes (Cocu said Lowe had cramp in both legs!) which was necessary. Maybe it could have been a straight swap with Lowe instead, but Waghorn needed to come off anyway. Sibley could have been another option on the LW, but Malone is much better defensively.
Whittaker coming on instead of Martin again was logical, due to offering a better counter attacking threat (although nothing materialised), and it was another 10 minutes of experience to help him get used to the Championship.
If we were 2 up, I think we would have seen Sibley come on for Rooney. But, Rooney's leadership and experience was vital in closing out that game.
I don't think the subs worked out as well as planned, but there weren't many other options available.

[NottsRam77]

28 minutes ago, Srg said:

Made hard work of it in the end, and would have certainly been a different game entirely if we had scored 2 or 3 early goals like the chances we had suggested we should have. They were then able to make a tactical sub which sorted their mess out somewhat and made it a bit more of a contest.

The huge change over the past two games is the way we are setting up on the pitch. We are getting much closer together in both an attacking and particularly a defensive sense, which is meaning we are much more able to get stuck into first and second challenges and being able to spring from that. Couple that with a bit more youthful energy and enthusiasm and it's making all the difference. Previously, we were quite expansive in our set up, but didn't have the pace or willingness to do it defensively, nor the pace and quality to do it in possession. Ironically, it's probably the first times we've set up like this since Shinnie was in the team when we hit a little form then too.

Thought Max Bird was really good last night. His athleticism and energy showing through, winning the ball, carrying and giving really getting us going at times. He does a lot of unnoticed stuff, but he still has an eye for a pass on top of that. Think he will continue to get better and we are now seeing what the academy set up has seen him all this time.

Knight not as spectacular as the other night, but can't expect that every time. Still a good performance from him. Max Lowe continuing to channel Roberto Carlos at the moment, and long may that continue. Waghorn was truly horrendous until he scored, then started to win a couple of headers and seemed to grow from that - but not letting that hide from his terrible performance prior. Marriott needed that goal, but he needs to stop trying to chip the keeper... it must be 3 or 4 tries in the past 2 games which have not even been close. Finally, Hamer is not better than Roos. He isn't massively better from crosses to the point where it outweighs Roos' ability with his feet, and the shot stopping is a wash at best.

I get Morgan Whittaker hasn't shown a lot in the first team, but I think some people aren't being very patient with him. He's often coming up with sole instruction of just disrupting their backline's distribution late in games. I have watched a fair amount of his academy games and he more often than not he played as a wide forward, not this central role he's playing now for all of 5 or 10 minutes a game. Give him some time, and let him actually come on in a situation where he has more than one instruction.

With that said, the substitutions did kill us last night. It was a difficult situation to be in as you could see we needed legs but we also didn't really want to change it, and the options available were extremely limited. However, Mr Tickle was not the sub. He looked completely lost, he confused the midfield and Max Lowe in equal measures to himself. It basically killed any hope of another goal and invited all the pressure in the world until the end of the game. A more simple sub would've been Whittaker earlier for Waghorn to provide those legs and not mess with things unduly. Don't agree with Martin, as we already had Rooney who can't run around like you'd want ideally and we needed to keep pressing.

Finally, Craig Ramage is an absolute fool. Listening to him on the way home, he really is clueless. He had a 10-15 minute rant on transfers where he didn't make sense, showed he didn't know much and contradicted himself. I can't imagine anyone would have listened to that and agreed with anything he was saying, if you could even decipher what he was trying to say.

Fair comments 

one thing I’ll add 

Matt Clarke , our back line is like night and day with him at the heart of it compared to fozzy 

he’s been excellent since his return 

thought was ball watching a little for their equaliser but in the main oustanding and gives us that assurance to build from 

[Srg]

14 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

For me, he's a big reason why Marriott has had so many good chances in the last few games. He works quite well in a front two.

That's fair, but still think he can do more as an individual. It's reminiscent of teflon Ravanelli at times. It's very easy to get frustrated with him as he built like a tank, but doesn't want to play like one a lot of the time and he has a penchant for missing chances which is criminal as a striker. Hopefully the goal will help and we will see a bit more from him.

[ramsbottom]

Not much I can really chime in with that hasn't been said already.  But I will say how refreshing it is that Wisdom is getting some praise.  He's been a colossus the past couple of games.  He's had poor runs of form in the past, but the amount of crap he's taken in the isn't warranted in my opinion.  If Bogle were to be sold tomorrow for £15m I'd be more than happy to have Andre replace him...

As for Wayne, you got exactly what you'd expect from a striker playing as a holding midfielder.  I think we'll only get the proper fireworks from him when he's played as a No 10 or up front.  Was certainly nice to see a captain dishing out a bollocking or two, and not looking like a screaming village idiot, after someone stole my favourite potato...

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Mafiabob said:

Yet both strikers scored....... if they hadn’t we lost 1-0... unless we are doing reverse psychology here...... ah that’s it. 

Misses the point.

Poor control of the ball by both Marriott and Waghorn  could have been costly against better opposition. But the team selection was right and  the only debate is how the final 20 minutes of the game were handled. Cocu's tactics were proved right but if we had conceded again ( and Barnsley did press hard towards the end) we would have regretted the defensive changes.

[Archied]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Martin could have done that and more, defend corners, hold the ball, etc. Nope didn't see the need to gamble Whittaker and he's done very little. 

??

[RamNut]

Interesting conundrum - trying to accommodate bielik, bird, knight, Holmes, Rooney, (and sibley?). 

It will be interesting to see how cocu deals with the further selection issue with regards to former favourites huddlestone and Lawrence (and shinnie!).

I would like to see evans and wisdom get game time at centre back before the end of the season. We may already have some of the answers to plug some of the gaps hidden in plain sight. 

[nogbad van 50]

11 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

OK, a slightly nervier last 15 mins than we would have liked but lets face it, we should have won this easily. Some good performances out there & Rooney can be happy with his key contributions. Great to see the side starting to evolve, the team is picking itself all of a sudden & we're creating plenty with lots of movement & interplay. 

Barnsley in fairness look a decent side, press very well & cause issues up top. I'd be surprised if they don't escape the bottom 3. 

Ratings;

Hamer - 6 - obviously his mistake for their goal but generally sound. His distribution is good also

Wisdom - 8 - excellent. Strong defensively & again offered plenty going forward. Assisted for second goal & great ball in first half also that Marriott missed

Lowe - 8 - also excellent. Dealt with their raids & looked a menace down the left

Clarke - 7 - really like this guy. So calm on the ball & totally changes the dynamic of the back 4. Won pretty much everything in the air. Would have been an 8 but lost his man for their goal

Davies - 7 - solid as ever. Slightly disappointed his forays into their box didn't yield more than it did

Bird - 8 - unbelievable to think only his 3rd start. A presence going forward & effective helping out his back 4

Rooney - 7 - great quality as you'd expect. Game sometimes passed him by but not surprised he's rusty after more than 2 months without a game. Liked that he wasn't shy in dishing out a rollocking to Marriott after another missed chance

Holmes - 7 - busy as ever, his darting raids are so important to the team. Great ball for Marriott's 3rd chance, lack of cutting edge on other occasions though

Knight - 8 - bit harder for him tonight but still worked manfully, contributed plenty going forward & gave Wisdom plenty of support

Marriott - 6.5 - scored & worked hard but really should have put the game to bed. Seemed to have real tunnel vision as should have put Bird in for one of the chances too

Waghorn - 7 - worked hard, linked up well with Marriott & scored the winner

Subs

Malone & Whittaker - 6 - both brought on to stop Barnsley building attacks & had some success

Spot on with your ratings imo.The only thing I’d disagree with is the comment regarding Malone and Whittaker-two headless chickens spring to mind! PS Happy New Year ?

[RamNut]

8 hours ago, Jourdan said:

We should have been out of sight at half time. Marriott was unbelievably wasteful and on another night, it could have come back to haunt us.

He needs regular games. 

No need to be too harsh. I once saw Kevin Hector miss one of those gilt edged chances......

 

...he was 62 though. 

[nogbad van 50]

51 minutes ago, Srg said:

That's fair, but still think he can do more as an individual. It's reminiscent of teflon Ravanelli at times. It's very easy to get frustrated with him as he built like a tank, but doesn't want to play like one a lot of the time and he has a penchant for missing chances which is criminal as a striker. Hopefully the goal will help and we will see a bit more from him.

I’ll get Marriott’s noose ready then!?