Jourdan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 To be fair to the OP, I imagine Clough would be doing a better job than Cocu currently is. He got a tune out of worse players than we currently have. On that basis, would I take Clough back? No. Clough did a fair job, but where we want to be and where he could take us are worlds apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: Largely agree with most of the stuff you say about McClaren etc, but you don't know this. You don't know that he wouldn't of eventually gotten us promoted. None of us do. What we do know though, is that the football we were stagnating under Cloughie. We weren't going anywhere quickly enough and, after a very long time at the helm, it was probably time for a change (shocking as it was at the time). What we saw under McClaren is what we have wanted to see under every manager who has followed him: a team transformed. Same playing staff, more or less, but totally reinvigorated. Feels like every damn season we wait to see if the same thing is going to happen again. Clement. Pearson. Rowett. Lampard. Cocu. But it hasn't. So what do we have to do? Maybe what we're expecting is the problem. Maybe we have to all change how we see the process of transforming these team now? Maybe its time to just let someone plant themselves in and let their roots grow for a bit. I think you're right and that's why it's my view that we should give Cocu more time. Unlike McClaren, he inherited a very ordinary squad and then, to make matters worse, has lost much of the best bits to injuries and the rest. I suspect he's bitten off more than he can chew short term but hope he's learning what he needs to do well. If we could take the best bits of Clough, McClaren and Lampard, with a touch of Rowett, we might have the manager we need. They all have strengths and weaknesses and they've shown them to the full over the last 10 years or so. Nearly but not quite on so many occasions. Onwards and Upwards [I think]....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammed79 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I liked Clough always seemed to get the better of Leeds and the red scum. He made some dodgy signings but also made some bloody good ones which to be fair you could say the same about all our managers .He never had any money to play with so can understand why he took chances on players like Luke Moore. You could see what he was trying to build and it was a shame he never got to see it through because just as the money came in he was gone. I doubt he would come back if it was offered so its probably best left in the past. I'm not sure sticking with Cocu is the right thing to do but I will see what happens in January but if things dont improve by February it will be game over. Then we can start with the Paul Simpson IN demands . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rammed79 said: just as the money came in he was gone This is incorrect. It was almost 2 years after he left before we actually spent money. Mac didn't get to spend money other than on Thorne (which was the money from reaching the play off final). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammed79 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, rynny said: This is incorrect. It was almost 2 years after he left before we actually spent money. Mac didn't get to spend money other than on Thorne (which was the money from reaching the play off final). Either way he never had any to play with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Truckle said: There are a lot of comments about how Mac took Clough's players and got more out of them. Could be true over the season but its interesting to look at an exact comparison between the teams they both faced. Before being sacked Clough faced these teams and got 11 points, that's exactltly the same amount as Mac got 11 points from the return fixtures. Brighton Leicester City Yeovil Town Burnley Millwall Bolton Wanderers Nottingham Forest What about Blackburn and Reading fixtures? You added Clough's points to your totals but not Mac's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rammed79 said: Either way he never had any to play with Neither did many managers in the division. Just look at Blackpool when they got promoted, the used the money we gave them for Barker and got promoted off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Budgie895 said: I might be getting old! And My memory is not so good ,but people still keep banging on about Steve Mclarens team, wasn’t it Nigel Cloughs team? doesn't matter whose team it 'was', it matters who got them playing and who managed them properly. If you go to a restaurant and have an amazing meal, do you credit the chef or the person who did the shopping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 It’s silly to compare clough and macs time at Derby , they had different job criteria put in front of them with different starting points and different expectations with different backing , not going to knock either of them as they both did some good stuff In differing ways ,one thing though is that after their time with us I have a fair bit of respect for clough , not so much for mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: doesn't matter whose team it 'was', it matters who got them playing and who managed them properly. If you go to a restaurant and have an amazing meal, do you credit the chef or the person who did the shopping? I mean, it's a half baked analogy but ...both? If the chef only has out of date rotten eggs in his fridge I don't criticise him when the omelette I've demanded tastes like poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Jourdan said: To be fair to the OP, I imagine Clough would be doing a better job than Cocu currently is. He got a tune out of worse players than we currently have. On that basis, would I take Clough back? No. Clough did a fair job, but where we want to be and where he could take us are worlds apart. Cloughs first seasons in charge we were battling against relegation, in fact in all his tenure we never finished higher than 10th...yet he would do a better job than PC ? These are the posts that I don't get, Nigel had 5 years to build his team, Cocu hasn't even had 5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, rynny said: Neither did many managers in the division. Just look at Blackpool when they got promoted, the used the money we gave them for Barker and got promoted off that. 5 years and best finish he could muster was 10th, so many clubs in the league had finished in the top 6 during that time, he didn't even flirt with promotion and people still think he was hard done by ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richgee1976 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said: What amazing team? The one which featured the left back(forgot his name) up front because we didn't have anyone else? That LB would be Dean Moxey ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 For me, it was his signing of Connor Sammon for 1m which is one major reason not to have Clough back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Cloughs first seasons in charge we were battling against relegation, in fact in all his tenure we never finished higher than 10th...yet he would do a better job than PC ? These are the posts that I don't get, Nigel had 5 years to build his team, Cocu hasn't even had 5 months. There's no doubt that Clough walked into a squad full of overpaid mercenaries, but he did also have Rob Hulse and Kris Commons at (arguably) their peak to play with. Martn Albrechtsen, Steven Bywater, Paul Green, Nacer Barazite. Some of those players were better than what we have at the minute. Arguably even Robbie Savage haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, TimRam said: For me, it was his signing of Connor Sammon for 1m which is one major reason not to have Clough back. Yet compare sammons record, certainly in the season he played under clough, with Waghorn and Marriott who are both generally well thought of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Yet compare sammons record, certainly in the season he played under clough, with Waghorn and Marriott who are both generally well thought of... I did suggest Theo Robinson would be as useful those two right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, BondJovi said: I did suggest Theo Robinson would be as useful those two right now... For the market we were working in he was an excellent buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Paul71 said: For the market we were working in he was an excellent buy. Kuqi would also be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, BondJovi said: Kuqi would also be welcome. One of Cloughs biggest mistakes not signing him. Love to ever be able sit down with him and try and understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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