Pochettino

[ramsbottom]

19 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I'm not claiming Levy is innocent here, but the manager's job is to get results on the pitch. You claiming it isn't Pochettino's fault isn't right. He is the person held responsible for the poor match performances. If we had a manager that hadn't won any away game for 11 months, and even then only against a side that got comfortably relegated, would you be happy? I wouldn't. 

It's also said that he was looking elsewhere at other jobs, had lost interest, and that would match up with what we saw from Spurs in 2019. 14th in the league, out of the cup, and getting beaten 7-2 is not acceptable for a club of Spurs' size. One of the jobs for the manager is to work best possible within the constraints. Poch hasn't been.

Perhaps not for the last 12 months but he's delivered consecutive top 4 finishes, and a CL final appearance whilst his net spend is 17th out of the current PL teams.  You'd have thought that would by you a little leeway if you're having a poor year.  Especially when you'd told your boss that you needed to freshen things up, but weren't allowed.

Although I find it odd that he chased after Sessengon for 2 years, and didn't play him ahead of an out of sorts Rose, and an out of form Davies.

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Perhaps not for the last 12 months but he's delivered consecutive top 4 finishes, and a CL final appearance whilst his net spend is 17th out of the current PL teams.  You'd have thought that would by you a little leeway if you're having a poor year.  Especially when you'd told your boss that you needed to freshen things up, but weren't allowed.

Although I find it odd that he chased after Sessengon for 2 years, and didn't play him ahead of an out of sorts Rose, and an out of form Davies.

A poor year is 7th place. 14th place is pretty catastrophically bad. You point at net spend, which is fine, I point out that they have multiple world class players other teams would be desperate to have. Do you give leeway when his heart is clearly not still in it? He was flirting with leaving before the Champions League final, which they lost, and in 2019 they haven't really had many good performances at all. 

Spurs are going to shoot up the table with Mourinho. They have all the playing staff. 

[ramsbottom]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

A poor year is 7th place. 14th place is pretty catastrophically bad. You point at net spend, which is fine, I point out that they have multiple world class players other teams would be desperate to have. Do you give leeway when his heart is clearly not still in it? He was flirting with leaving before the Champions League final, which they lost, and in 2019 they haven't really had many good performances at all. 

Spurs are going to shoot up the table with Mourinho. They have all the playing staff. 

Maybe...

[Anon]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

How much did he spend at Inter and at Porto? 

Porto is now 15 years ago, and Inter 9. He didn't spend much, but the figures wouldn't be relevant anyway, given how much the market has changed. I think I'm justified focusing on the United example as it's his most recent job, and it's in the same league as the job he's taken. I think his tenure at United gives a far more accurate reflection of how Mourinho will fare at Tottenham.

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Anon said:

Porto is now 15 years ago, and Inter 9. He didn't spend much, but the figures wouldn't be relevant anyway, given how much the market has changed. I think I'm justified focusing on the United example as it's his most recent job, and it's in the same league as the job he's taken. I think his tenure at United gives a far more accurate reflection of how Mourinho will fare at Tottenham.

I don't think United and Spurs is a good comparison, because they both had very different issues when Jose came in. Spurs have a great squad that has become disillusioned, but given the right attitude and motivation, easily good enough to challenge even Liverpool and City. United had a rubbish squad when he joined, people say he spent big, which he did, but that squad needed an awful lot more spending on it before it became competitive. United was never the right fit for him, with him living in a hotel. Spurs is much better. I just find it a bit ridiculous everyone calls him a cheque book manager now, when he's won the biggest trophy without spending much.

[GenBr]

4 hours ago, Anon said:

Simply saying "Mourinho wins things" is pointless without context. A Europa League and an League cup cost Man Utd a net spend of 300 million under Mourinho. Whilst Pochettino didn't win a trophy, he turned Spurs into top 4 regulars and CL finalists with a net spend of just over 30 million. Do you really believe the notoriously tight fisted Daniel Levy will provide Mourinho with that kind of money and if he does will he be happy with a return of two 2nd class trophies and patchy CL qualification?

Spurs spent £100 mill on players in the summer and again more than £100 mill in 17/18 and £75 mill in 16/17. Yes they sold players to balance it, but Pochettino had plenty of money for players and made the squad go backwards this year. Man Utds squad was in an awful condition and needed money spending on it - they spent well over £100 this year as well.

The two 2nd class trophies Mourinho won at Man Utd as you put it are still more than anything Pochettino has ever managed in his entire managerial career. Mourinho is still the current Prem manager to have won the most Prem titles.

 

[Mostyn6]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

To be fair hasnt he won something everywhere he has been?

For me, the fact that he spent £250m at the biggest club in England, and didnt have them challenging, tells me he may be losing his touch.

pretty sure United were the closest challengers that season. Didn't they finish 2nd? or am I imagining it?

1 hour ago, Anon said:

Porto is now 15 years ago, and Inter 9. He didn't spend much, but the figures wouldn't be relevant anyway, given how much the market has changed. I think I'm justified focusing on the United example as it's his most recent job, and it's in the same league as the job he's taken. I think his tenure at United gives a far more accurate reflection of how Mourinho will fare at Tottenham.

United job would be relevant judgement if they'd improved when he left. 

[Jourdan]

This reminds me of when Clough was sacked and McClaren was brought in the first time.

In a similar way, Clough had taken us as far as he could and we were looking for someone to elevate us to the next level.

Many people - including myself - thought McClaren was a poor appointment and that he was ‘finished’, given his recent failings e.g. being bombed out at Forest.

He ended up finishing 3rd that season and taking us to the play off final, playing some excellent football along the way.

Why couldn’t Jose have the same effect on what is obviously a talented group of players at Spurs?

[Turk Thrust]

I'm going to the West Ham v Spurs match on Saturday. I think the new manager effect will galvanise Spurs. What with the Irons in a poor run it will be a definite win for Spurs

[ThePrisoner]

33 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Why couldn’t Jose have the same effect on what is obviously a talented group of players at Spurs?

He doesn't speak Dutch.

[ramsbottom]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

This reminds me of when Clough was sacked and McClaren was brought in the first time.

In a similar way, Clough had taken us as far as he could and we were looking for someone to elevate us to the next level.

Many people - including myself - thought McClaren was a poor appointment and that he was ‘finished’, given his recent failings e.g. being bombed out at Forest.

He ended up finishing 3rd that season and taking us to the play off final, playing some excellent football along the way.

Why couldn’t Jose have the same effect on what is obviously a talented group of players at Spurs?

Nigel's was limited by his training methods and negative tactics.

Schteve, despite a patchy track record was/is a progressive, forward thinking coach.

TBF, neither of them had a big budget to play with, which a lot of people argued is what held Nigel back.

[Mucker1884]

4 hours ago, Jourdan said:

This reminds me of when Clough was sacked and McClaren was brought in the first time.

In a similar way, Clough had taken us as far as he could and we were looking for someone to elevate us to the next level.

Many people - including myself - thought McClaren was a poor appointment and that he was ‘finished’, given his recent failings e.g. being bombed out at Forest.

He ended up finishing 3rd that season and taking us to the play off final, playing some excellent football along the way.

Why couldn’t Jose have the same effect on what is obviously a talented group of players at Spurs?

Obviously taking the different levels into consideration, but will "the same effect" be enough for Spurs?   Poch has already matched (at Spurs) what McClaren achieved for us!  Almost something, but ultimately nothing!

I suspect José will need to achieve considerably more.

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

pretty sure United were the closest challengers that season. Didn't they finish 2nd? or am I imagining it?

United job would be relevant judgement if they'd improved when he left. 

Yes they did finish 2nd, 19 points behind the champions, having spent £178m.

Nobody since Mourinho has had that sort of money and their top goalscorer has left, not really a surprise that they have not improved.

[Pearl Ram]

I’m finding SkySports News’s Mourinho love in a bit sickening this evening, although that could be just because Jim White’s one of the presenters mind.

[GenBr]

32 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes they did finish 2nd, 19 points behind the champions, having spent £178m.

Nobody since Mourinho has had that sort of money and their top goalscorer has left, not really a surprise that they have not improved.

The team that finished first in 17/18 spent almost £300 million on players in that season alone and that was already a quality squad. 

Solskjaer just spent £80 mill on Maguire, £50 mill on wan bissaka and another £15 mill on James. Thats still £145 mill - lets not pretend Mourinho is the only one who has had money to spend. Man Utd have backed virtually all of their managers since Ferguson. Even Moyes spent £70 mill. Van Gaal spent almost £200 mil in his first season. Mourinho is the only to actually do something worthwile with his spending.

[Sith Happens]

7 minutes ago, GenBr said:

The team that finished first in 17/18 spent almost £300 million on players in that season alone and that was already a quality squad. 

Solskjaer just spent £80 mill on Maguire, £50 mill on wan bissaka and another £15 mill on James. Thats still £145 mill - lets not pretend Mourinho is the only one who has had money to spend. Man Utd have backed virtually all of their managers since Ferguson. Even Moyes spent £70 mill. Van Gaal spent almost £200 mil in his first season. Mourinho is the only to actually do something worthwile with his spending.

Makes the 38 pence we spent last time in the PL look a bit poo

[GenBr]

8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Makes the 38 pence we spent last time in the PL look a bit poo

I wish it was 38p. Then we wouldnt have ended up with Earnshaw as our replacement for Steve Howard.

[Sith Happens]

6 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I wish it was 38p. Then we wouldnt have ended up with Earnshaw as our replacement for Steve Howard.

It wasn't much though.

6 million something like that 

[Mountain Ram]

Not overly surprised. Twenty-five points from 24 league games since February is pretty poor for a ‘Top Four’ team.

I’ll be interested to see if they get the old Mourinho, who’ll win a major trophy then watch the team implode in season three, or the new Mourinho who skips winning major trophies before a similar implosion.

[Sith Happens]

16 minutes ago, Mountain Ram said:

Not overly surprised. Twenty-five points from 24 league games since February is pretty poor for a ‘Top Four’ team.

I’ll be interested to see if they get the old Mourinho, who’ll win a major trophy then watch the team implode in season three, or the new Mourinho who skips winning major trophies before a similar implosion.

Don't know,  when did he last not win major trophies?