v Forest (A) Carabao Cup Match Thread

[dcfc4ever]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Did that respect continue when, following midweek cup games, we lost to Millwall, Bolton and Rotherham?

I seem to remember a lot of fans being very irate with them results!

That's just simply not true.

I'm not sure what this has got to do with team selection.

Are you suggesting that if we only sold 500 tickets it would be ok for him to put a weakened team out?

No evidence for this but I'd be willing to bet that of the 3300 that went, Forest will be their only away game of the season.

Are you real your willing to bet the 3300 will be there only away game.Bulk of tickets went to away members first.There was many faces there who are regular away travellers.Cocu let our travelling fans down with a team selection not strong enough to play are closest rivals.we can all take losing its the manor of the performance that upsets me.

For me the 3300 should have final say on whether Cocu was right or wrong with team selection,positions,substitutions,etc not the part timers sitting at home.Some of our away following will be okay with it but bulk there were very unhappy and rightly so.This was the worst performance I’ve seen at Florist for many a year.International break soon so players can have a rest ( LOL they’ve already had one )

[RandomAccessMemory]

30 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

He's making a bit of a habit of losing the plot when we lose there isn't he? It hurts us all but he should be the one keeping a calm head.

Do any of us actually know what happened? I don't think it's fair to accuse him of 'losing the plot' without first knowing more about the situation. I've read that Davies also had an issue last night, if that's true do you think he's 'lost the plot' too? Does he seem type to do that?

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

How can you tell when last night he wasn't playing with the first team? It makes a difference.

It wasn't first team no but Davies,Clarke,Shinnie,Paterson,Holmes,Evans have played enough games between them so it wasn't exactly all academy players

[Andicis]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I feel really sorry for Cocu.

I don't think the Derby job is the hardest in the division. But the circumstances he walked into were certainly more challenging than people appreciated and the lack of patience from the fans only adds to the challenge.

He arrived eight weeks ago at a club reeling from a play-off final defeat and at a club who had just spent the whole summer being publicly toyed with by Lampard and Chelsea. 

He arrived eight weeks ago to a depleted squad - four key players (Mount, Johnson, Wilson and Tomori) from last season were gone and two more (Holmes and Marriott) carried major question marks over their long term fitness.

He arrived eight weeks ago to a club whose fans had already anointed him King Phillip and were positive that his arrival would lead to a glorious promotion playing football in the classic Dutch style along the way.

He arrived eight weeks ago to a club who had not really fully prepared for or anticipated his arrival and as such were scrambling around for signings with no obvious strategy in the final week of the transfer window.

Cocu took a big risk taking this job and putting his reputation on the line. For his first job in English football, he certainly could have picked an easier job. I don't envy him at all when you sit down and take a moment to consider everything.

How easy is it coming into a club with a recent history of impatient fans and an impatient owner? How easy is it coming into a club who expect to be competing for promotion year on year? How easy is it coming into a club where the gloom needed to be lifted?

How easy is it coming into a club where the squad needed to be rebuilt? How easy is it coming into a club who thought signing Rooney and being on the front page of the Sun was more important than genuinely addressing five or six gaps in the squad?

That's the reality facing Cocu. Give the man a break.

Except this post isn't addressing why he's being criticised. I agree with parts of it. He's getting stick for lying down and giving our local rivals a free win. That's not about our fans being impatient or the season as a whole, I've not seen anyone seriously say they want him sacked, but people are well within their rights to slag him off for his selection last night.

I don't feel sorry for Cocu.

[rockabilly]

Forest fan here in peace. Big thank you and respect to rams fans applause for Junior Agogo last night.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Did everyone survive their ribbing from forest-supporting colleagues or having to walk through Nottingham city centre?

thought so

[Edtheram]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

In a 2nd round League Cup game - the result of which has no bearing on our season...

The kind of game in which if Marriott or Waghorn had started and got injured, people would be saying there was no need to risk key players.

If you feel this strongly about Cocu's selection last night, I dread to think how you felt at 2pm on the day of the play off final.

All if but and maybes mate. Trying to brush off a 3-0 loss at Forest isn’t going to work with most. I for one was in attendance last night and the Forest fans were “oleing” it was that easy. We were dire and if we don’t win at Brentford what’s this done for us? I don’t expect us to come back from Brentford with anything. We’ve been poor so far this season, positions and players change every game and we don’t look like scoring. This game was big, 1 game at a time. Massive Cocu up from the main man 

[BondJovi]

So, what team should Cocu have played?

Hamer- Yes, no one can have issue with that.

Davies and Clarke - Both need the minutes and no point risking Keogh and Bielik who is carrying a knock.

Who else could play fullback, we can't risk Lowe or Malone as that is all we have. 

Midfield - Huddlestone was never going to play, big ask on Knight to play again. Bielik, not worth the risk. Evans has played well when played so yes and Shinnie needs game time. Could have played Holmes there but who else can play full back? Maybe Dowell could have played but again he has played a lot recently.

Wingers? Lawrence we can't risk, Josefzoon could have played. Paterson needs the game time as does Bennett.

Strikers - Waghorn puts in a lot of work for us, need him. Marriott is being rightly treated with caution. If Martin was fit, then I believe he needed the game time.

You look at it like that, paper thin.

If Lawrence got injured we are in trouble, same for Waghorn. We have to use the youth players this season, how will Cocu know who is ready if they don't get a competitive match? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

26 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

All if but and maybes mate. Trying to brush off a 3-0 loss at Forest isn’t going to work with most. I for one was in attendance last night and the Forest fans were “oleing” it was that easy. We were dire and if we don’t win at Brentford what’s this done for us? I don’t expect us to come back from Brentford with anything. We’ve been poor so far this season, positions and players change every game and we don’t look like scoring. This game was big, 1 game at a time. Massive Cocu up from the main man 

This game wasn’t big. 

There is a longer view to be had here. A view that goes beyond one league cup game or the next league game. 

Fortunately, the manager has taken that view. Equally fortunately, he’s the one in charge. 

[DCFC1388]

9 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

So, what team should Cocu have played?

Hamer- Yes, no one can have issue with that.

Davies and Clarke - Both need the minutes and no point risking Keogh and Bielik who is carrying a knock.

Who else could play fullback, we can't risk Lowe or Malone as that is all we have. 

Midfield - Huddlestone was never going to play, big ask on Knight to play again. Bielik, not worth the risk. Evans has played well when played so yes and Shinnie needs game time. Could have played Holmes there but who else can play full back? Maybe Dowell could have played but again he has played a lot recently.

Wingers? Lawrence we can't risk, Josefzoon could have played. Paterson needs the game time as does Bennett.

Strikers - Waghorn puts in a lot of work for us, need him. Marriott is being rightly treated with caution. If Martin was fit, then I believe he needed the game time.

You look at it like that, paper thin.

If Lawrence got injured we are in trouble, same for Waghorn. We have to use the youth players this season, how will Cocu know who is ready if they don't get a competitive match? 

Thank god for this post, my thoughts exactly just couldnt be bothered to post it ?

Would love to know what team people would want to play a Forest team with 8 changes in itself

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Thank god for this post, my thoughts exactly just couldnt be bothered to post it ?

Would love to know what team people would want to play a Forest team with 8 changes in itself

There are some that wanted a full strength team ‘because it’s Forest’. 

[gccrowdpleaser]

1 hour ago, Rambam said:

Looks like he was assaulted. Blood flowed.

Not seen that

[ilkleyram]

Well I was there for two and didn't feel much like posting at 130 when I got in. Not sure I do now really, but.

I didn't feel outraged or insulted or angry at paying good money and travelling a long way - I've spent more money and travelled further for worse than that. I was disappointed that we lost a game of football to our rivals on a day that Bury got chucked out of the league and Bolton may go out of business and follow suit.

I learnt that our manager has big gonads. He selected pretty much the same team that played at Scunny because, I would guess, that he wanted to see them, especially the young players, in action in a big competitive match. He knew how important the rivalry is because he's said at least twice that he's been told about it but he still went ahead.  Respect Mr Cocu. 

I also learnt that our some of our younger players need more development and experience. Morgan Whitaker, for example, needs to be physically stronger and more aware. The game passed him by.  He could have come off at half time but probably learnt more by not being hooked until later. Sibley had one good run but otherwise was chasing shadows. But how else do these guys get experience unless we try them. I enjoyed seeing them play. They'll be better for the experience.

And to the older players. I saw nothing but effort. Not one of them gave up, stopped running and covering even though some, Shinnie for example, was doing the work of two. I thought, but then what do I know, that Paterson did well, put in some dangerous crosses, that Mason battled constantly against two big centre halves, pretty much on his own, that Curtis, Clarke and Shinnie did OK.

The third goal was a fluke. Forget it. It happens. The first came because Duane lost his man at the back post probably because he has had no football for weeks. The second because Lee Buchanan let his man get the run and jump on him. A more experienced left back would stop that. He'll learn.

Cocu could have picked our first team with a couple of youngsters - Lowe and Buchanan perhaps. Where would that have got us in terms of the development of our young players; another opportunity to give Curtis and co game time when they might just be needed in the future, would have gone; another opportunity to learn about his squad will have passed Cocu and his team by. And we still might have lost. We're six games into a long season, two of which have been cup matches. Winning, or losing, against that lot does not a season make.

[Jourdan]

43 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Except this post isn't addressing why he's being criticised. I agree with parts of it. He's getting stick for lying down and giving our local rivals a free win. That's not about our fans being impatient or the season as a whole, I've not seen anyone seriously say they want him sacked, but people are well within their rights to slag him off for his selection last night.

I don't feel sorry for Cocu.

It was a game where Forest also made 8 changes from the previous game.

Were Forest lying down too? Were Forest trying to give the opposition a free win too?

The team selection only looks bad in hindsight because the kids and the fringe players didn’t step up and seize their moment.

It was a second round League Cup tie in August.

A month where we will have played 8 games in 26 days. Was our squad ready for that? We are already missing Bogle. What if Keogh and Lawrence had played and got injured? What if we had played a stronger side and lost?

Both teams played weakened sides. Both teams experimented. Both teams kept key players out of the firing line. Both teams saw the league as the priority.

Forest were just better on the night. Sometimes that happens, despite the manager’s and the players’ best intentions. We have 41 more games to prove it was a one-off.

The league games will be of a completely different make up of players and a completely different level of intensity and importance.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

It was a game where Forest also made 8 changes from the previous game.

Were Forest lying down too? Were Forest trying to give the opposition a free win too?

The team selection only looks bad in hindsight because the kids and the fringe players didn’t step up and seize their moment.

It was a second round League Cup tie in August.

A month where we will have played 8 games in 26 days. Was our squad ready for that? We are already missing Bogle. What if Keogh and Lawrence had played and got injured? What if we had played a stronger side and lost?

Both teams played weakened sides. Both teams experimented. Both teams kept key players out of the firing line. Both teams saw the league as the priority.

Forest were just better on the night. Sometimes that happens, despite the manager’s and the players’ best intentions. We have 41 more games to prove it was a one-off.

The league games will be of a completely different make up of players and a completely different level of intensity and importance.

Yeah, but Forest actually kept some of their starting players like Lolley on, and put out a competitive team. If our squad isn't big enough, tough, but we should still put out a squad capable of keeping up and not getting hammered 3-0. It doesn't look bad at hindsight, it looked bad as soon as I read it from the Twitter page, considered going home at that point, it was evident we weren't able to win, or register a shot on target for that matter. 

I don't know why you're trying to play this off as Cocu experimenting and genuinely trying to win, when it's patently obvious that isn't true. If Cocu had wanted to win, he would have played first choice players and not a full reserve/youth blend. Forest's manager risked injuries to his best players. Know why? Because he knows the importance of the fixture to fans. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, dcfc4ever said:

Are you real your willing to bet the 3300 will be there only away game.Bulk of tickets went to away members first.There was many faces there who are regular away travellers.Cocu let our travelling fans down with a team selection not strong enough to play are closest rivals.we can all take losing its the manor of the performance that upsets me.

For me the 3300 should have final say on whether Cocu was right or wrong with team selection,positions,substitutions,etc not the part timers sitting at home.Some of our away following will be okay with it but bulk there were very unhappy and rightly so.This was the worst performance I’ve seen at Florist for many a year.International break soon so players can have a rest ( LOL they’ve already had one )

No, I didnt say all 3300, but I would wager that there are a fair few away members who get the membership just for a Forest ticket.

Part timers sat at home may not have been able to get tickets, so are they not allowed a say on what they think Cocu's team selection?

 

[Smyth_18]

31 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

So, what team should Cocu have played?

Hamer- Yes, no one can have issue with that.

Davies and Clarke - Both need the minutes and no point risking Keogh and Bielik who is carrying a knock.

Who else could play fullback, we can't risk Lowe or Malone as that is all we have. 

Midfield - Huddlestone was never going to play, big ask on Knight to play again. Bielik, not worth the risk. Evans has played well when played so yes and Shinnie needs game time. Could have played Holmes there but who else can play full back? Maybe Dowell could have played but again he has played a lot recently.

Wingers? Lawrence we can't risk, Josefzoon could have played. Paterson needs the game time as does Bennett.

Strikers - Waghorn puts in a lot of work for us, need him. Marriott is being rightly treated with caution. If Martin was fit, then I believe he needed the game time.

You look at it like that, paper thin.

If Lawrence got injured we are in trouble, same for Waghorn. We have to use the youth players this season, how will Cocu know who is ready if they don't get a competitive match? 

Not overly bothered myself but what is this about risk?

We can't risk Lawrence? He could also get injured 2 minutes into the game on Saturday or in training. Footballers should be just playing football and by Lawrence's recent performances, he needs a bit of practice.

Risking Keogh? The man is a machine, he cannot get injured.

[GrimsbyRam]

11 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

And since then we have broke our transfer record on a player and brought in England’s record ever goal scorer and changed the manger to a much more experienced/successful manager..... 

So we currently have one player that doesn’t replace the three I mentioned?

[nottingram]

14 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Well I was there for two and didn't feel much like posting at 130 when I got in. Not sure I do now really, but.

I didn't feel outraged or insulted or angry at paying good money and travelling a long way - I've spent more money and travelled further for worse than that. I was disappointed that we lost a game of football to our rivals on a day that Bury got chucked out of the league and Bolton may go out of business and follow suit.

I learnt that our manager has big gonads. He selected pretty much the same team that played at Scunny because, I would guess, that he wanted to see them, especially the young players, in action in a big competitive match. He knew how important the rivalry is because he's said at least twice that he's been told about it but he still went ahead.  Respect Mr Cocu. 

I also learnt that our some of our younger players need more development and experience. Morgan Whitaker, for example, needs to be physically stronger and more aware. The game passed him by.  He could have come off at half time but probably learnt more by not being hooked until later. Sibley had one good run but otherwise was chasing shadows. But how else do these guys get experience unless we try them. I enjoyed seeing them play. They'll be better for the experience.

And to the older players. I saw nothing but effort. Not one of them gave up, stopped running and covering even though some, Shinnie for example, was doing the work of two. I thought, but then what do I know, that Paterson did well, put in some dangerous crosses, that Mason battled constantly against two big centre halves, pretty much on his own, that Curtis, Clarke and Shinnie did OK.

The third goal was a fluke. Forget it. It happens. The first came because Duane lost his man at the back post probably because he has had no football for weeks. The second because Lee Buchanan let his man get the run and jump on him. A more experienced left back would stop that. He'll learn.

Cocu could have picked our first team with a couple of youngsters - Lowe and Buchanan perhaps. Where would that have got us in terms of the development of our young players; another opportunity to give Curtis and co game time when they might just be needed in the future, would have gone; another opportunity to learn about his squad will have passed Cocu and his team by. And we still might have lost. We're six games into a long season, two of which have been cup matches. Winning, or losing, against that lot does not a season make.

Sensible and rational comment isn’t wanted here I’m afraid. If you could edit it to explain that the line up was a disgrace and that you queued for 4000000 hours and were insulted even though Cocu had already warned that he would change the team then that would be much better.

[Smyth_18]

1 hour ago, rockabilly said:

Forest fan here in peace. Big thank you and respect to rams fans applause for Junior Agogo last night.

No thanks necessary. He's a man who died far too young, why wouldn't we show respect?