Poor selection

[LeedsCityRam]

16 minutes ago, KCG said:

Not really sure that playing 2 forwards is being gung-ho. I have already said I had no problem with Bennett playing, because Waghorn coming in at start was probably a risk not worth taking.

Given that Lawrence, Mount and Wilson were very quiet I'd have been tempted to keep Bennett on. He was probably knackered though.

In the context of a season where we've always started with one up front, it would certainly have been 'brave'. For what it's worth, I did say in my first paragraph I wouldn't have started with the same XI - I would have started with Marriott up top with Bennett but I do understand Lampard's thinking and approach because of the potential psychological impact of Villa beating us so easily during the season.

And your point about Lawrence, Mount and Wilson is a good one - it was the lack of impetus from those 3 that made it look like we were being inhibited. In reality, there were plenty of attacking outlets on that pitch to cause Villa trouble - just like we have to many other teams this season with the same formation & similar line ups.

48 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

With the benefit of hindsight on that final - which Lampard had - it is plain to see that chances have to be taken, which might mean taking risks. For me Lampard is a stats man. When do you think he's have bought Marriott on against L**ds if Holmes hadn't been injured?!

He did take risks but the plan was to do this later in the game when Villa's defence and midfield had tired. Like I said earlier, you can't legislate for Roos' error - that's what cost us ultimately. Re Marriott on at Leeds, I believe he would have come on early in the second half had Holmes not been injured but its a moot point obviously.

[Ram8]

I cannot understand how so many of you can so blindly defend him and his ridiculous tactics when he has single handedly p*ss*d on your parade .. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

He did take risks but the plan was to do this later in the game when Villa's defence and midfield had tired. 

With our defensive record that doesn't seem a sensible plan. I don't agree even so, that's not how Lampard has worked over the season. He is not a risk taker but football is not chess.

[Boycie]

Right, threads back.

Hopefully I’ve removed all the arguments between certain members,

please play nice, anymore and I think it’s best we remove members for the good of the forum.

 

[Duracell]

13 hours ago, Ram8 said:

I cannot understand how so many of you can so blindly defend him and his ridiculous tactics when he has single handedly p*ss*d on your parade .. 

This is so over the top.

He went with a side you disagree with. For the record, I think we probably should have started with one of Marriott or Waghorn, but I also do not know how likely either were to complete the match, or even a half. 

“Single-handedly.” How on earth does the entirety of the blame land at one person’s door? It is no more just Lampard’s fault anymore than it is Roos for throwing the ball into his own net. No more his fault than Jozefzoon for not looking up and spotting a free Waghorn in the box. No more his fault than the referee not spotting two fouls in the build up to their first goal.

Lampard had a choice to make and in retrospect it looks like we got it wrong. We don’t know how fit the players we wanted to play were and we do know some players that would have helped were unavailable, like Malone and Holmes.

@ram8, I get the disappointment and I’m as frustrated as you are. There are so many “what if this happened?” moments from Monday that I keep playing in my head. But it does feel to me like you personally don’t like the popularity of our manager and are trying to redress the balance by seizing on one perceived mistake as incontrovertible proof that he is a useless manager.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

15 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

With our defensive record that doesn't seem a sensible plan. I don't agree even so, that's not how Lampard has worked over the season. He is not a risk taker but football is not chess.

Only 5 teams in the Championship conceded less than us this season.

Our record was better than Norwich, West Brom & Villa - all finished ahead of us & 2 of them went up.

[LittleEatonRam]

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 10:11, Mucker1884 said:

I'm not proud of feeling like this, and I know league tables are very much like photographs, when it comes to their mutual failings to be able to tell untruths, but whilst it has been a good season, an exciting season at times, I'm not convinced we were "good enough".  The odd game aside, I haven't felt the same excitement (this season) that I did throughout the 13/14 season.  Maybe never as high as this season's PO semi at Leeds, but certainly more consistent throughout the season.  For sheer excitement, expectation, and awe, 13/14 knocks spots off this season, imo.  That season we "should" have gone up.  We played like world beaters week after week, and the beautiful game was no more evident elsewhere than it was at PPS (or was it iPro back then?). 
That May, I was gutted... for the players as much as the fans/myself.  This season doesn't feel such a let down to me.  There have been no tears.

Agree with this 100%. I don't fully understand why so many people are calling this season the best they've seen for years (some have even said since Jim Smith). Really? Finishing 6th because Boro messed it up and lost 6 in a row?  We still had to win the games we did though, for which the team deserves credit, but it's hardly the same as 13/14 when we genuinely were smashing teams in our way. One of the standout games for me that season was Watford at home when we drew 2-2 I think? How Watford scored 2 I will never know as they hardly had a kick.

I can only assume a lot of this feeling is still due to having a celebrity manager in charge, which is making it seem better than it is. That and following up on Rowett who was the most negative manager I've seen in charge of us.

Fair play, Lampard has done well and I hope he continues to improve us, but some of the praise has been a bit OTT for me.

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Only 5 teams in the Championship conceded less than us this season.

Our record was better than Norwich, West Brom & Villa - all finished ahead of us & 2 of them went up.

Against Villa I think I meant.

We were far too negative and worried about dealing with Villa. Look the bottom line is not going to change - we didn't play well, had one shot on target before our goal, and lost the match. Oh and Villa really weren't that good imo.

[AdamRam]

I would have liked FL to have gone with Marriott from the start but I’m not stupid enough to think that this would have brought on a positive result. FL put out the team which he thought would get the best result, unfortunately it didn’t work, unfortunately Villa were also trying to win and did so by a fine margin.

Those who have played football know it’s easier to play without fear when coming on at 2 nil down, opponents playing on the break and getting men behind ball, Chelsea was a good example of this last night, would it have been different had Marriott started, maybe, however in the end it was a mistake that cost us not the team selection.

No surprise to see the usual suspects on here bemoaning the selection and tactics, did it all season and couldn’t wait for them to fail, we got beaten, only one side could win, shame it wasn’t us, comparing the last 20 odd minutes to the previous does highlight the limited knowledge of some.

Expect questions around the team selection, only natural, but maybe going with Marriott was actually the easier and braver option given he knew the criticism he would get from the wannabe Gary Neville’s if it didn’t go to plan.  

[LeedsCityRam]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Against Villa I think I meant.

We were far too negative and worried about dealing with Villa. Look the bottom line is not going to change - we didn't play well, had one shot on target before our goal, and lost the match. Oh and Villa really weren't that good imo.

Nobody is arguing that we played well. The point is whether Lampard's selection was reasonable - I think it was even if I personally would have gone with Bennett & Marriott.

Like I replied to KCG yesterday, the inability of Wilson, Lawrence and Mount to make an impact on the match is what strangled our attacking effort. We've scored plenty of goals this season with an identical formation & similar personnel. Attributing it to team selection is a bit of a red herring.

[KCG]

16 hours ago, Ram8 said:

I cannot understand how so many of you can so blindly defend him and his ridiculous tactics when he has single handedly p*ss*d on your parade .. 

I get the feeling you are just trying to wind people up. True that Frank got it wrong for this game, but I don't think it was his fault that on the day Lawrence, Wilson and Mount failed to turn up.

I'm hoping next season we concentrate on team football, rather than rely on too many individual's being on form for the day.

[BriggRam]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned but unless Holmes was injured surely he should have played instead of Hudds, I think the pace and directness would have caused Mings more of an headache than Bennett bouncing of him 

[Archied]

10 minutes ago, Barnetbyram said:

Not sure if it's already been mentioned but unless Holmes was injured surely he should have played instead of Hudds, I think the pace and directness would have caused Mings more of an headache than Bennett bouncing of him 

Injured

[Shaftesbury st]

On 29/05/2019 at 21:05, Ram8 said:

I don’t want to get involved in certain personal arguments, but I can understand the frustration of everyone on here. We were all revved up for an exciting match with some adventurous football, and a great chance of achieving Premiership football next season. We didn’t get the adventurous football because our highly rated and much loved manager bottled it on the big stage, and as a result we have yet another season of biting our nails to the bone in the Championship against Wigan, Millwall, Reading and Barnsley; whilst our opponents can look forward to receiving Man. City and United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea !

Thank you Frank Lampard, you had all the good will in the world from the Derby County support, but you threw it all away with your ridiculous selections and cautious safety first football .. !! 

I’m going to watch this quote very closely after all the mud I’ve had this week re some of my comments

[Shaftesbury st]

17 hours ago, KCG said:

I get the feeling you are just trying to wind people up. True that Frank got it wrong for this game, but I don't think it was his fault that on the day Lawrence, Wilson and Mount failed to turn up.

I'm hoping next season we concentrate on team football, rather than rely on too many individual's being on form for the day.

I do think he’s been defended by many on this point. Obviously he can’t help some players not turning up, Lawrence hasn’t turned up in more games than he has played well and certainly divides opinion.

Thought Mount did ok in the end and once we had Marriott on the pitch we looked a threat, it’s the initial selection I struggle with and or the late substitutions. As much as I rate Wilson I’ve thought all season he’s not going to get into Liverpool’s side.

Somebody posted an excellent piece of Facebook yesterday regarding Derby hosting loan players from Prem sides. In short it said we have this season massively increases these players value and so why wouldn’t other teams want theirs to come to us next season, a really valid point and one I hope comes to fruition. 

[Yojimbo]

18 hours ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Agree with this 100%. I don't fully understand why so many people are calling this season the best they've seen for years (some have even said since Jim Smith). Really? Finishing 6th because Boro messed it up and lost 6 in a row?  We still had to win the games we did though, for which the team deserves credit, but it's hardly the same as 13/14 when we genuinely were smashing teams in our way. One of the standout games for me that season was Watford at home when we drew 2-2 I think? How Watford scored 2 I will never know as they hardly had a kick.

I can only assume a lot of this feeling is still due to having a celebrity manager in charge, which is making it seem better than it is. That and following up on Rowett who was the most negative manager I've seen in charge of us.

Fair play, Lampard has done well and I hope he continues to improve us, but some of the praise has been a bit OTT for me.

Honestly, I preferred even the Burley side to this one, though I freely admit that is motivated almost solely by the fact that that was when I had a season ticket and went to the majority of away games, as opposed to now where I watch matches at 12am in the morning wearing headphones on streams whilst the wife sleeps next door.

Morton Bisgaard > Mason Mount ?

Lampard did better than I expected, and the Leeds game will go down in club history more so than even winning at United in the cup, but the season and Frank as a whole are a B+ from me.

[RamNut]

The selection was predictable.

leeds home - nugent - lost

leeds away - losing until injury forced a change. Then we were fantastic, marriott scores twice, and we take the lead. Almost immediately bring on huddz and go safety first.

we had seen what a good side we are when we go for it.

wembley - please maintain the momemtum. But no, a negative selection once again concedes the initiative. Are we more concerned with containing Villa than having a real go? One shot on target in the first half. Losing at half time. 45 minutes to score twice but no change at half time. Concedes a second. Makes the change and marriott scores. We play very well afterwards but its too late.

roos howler was equally relevant in determining the result, but what a let down.

when we attack and have our natural goal scorer sticking them away, at times we look one of the best young attacking sides since Docherty's Man United side. When we try to control games by going sidewards and backwards we lack a cutting edge and start to come unstuck.

frank got it wrong. He got us into a great position, but then fluffed it.

 

[Mucker1884]

On 29/05/2019 at 21:05, Ram8 said:

Thank you Frank Lampard, you had all the good will in the world from the Derby County support, but you threw it all away with your ridiculous selections and cautious safety first football .. !! 

Hold on a God Damn Cockamamie minute there, Padre! 

Despite obvious disappointment(s), He most certainly has not thrown ALL that goodwill away!  Even If I'm on my own... which I know I ain't... he still maintains 0.0037037037037037% goodwill *

 

*Based on me on me todd, as a percentage of 27,000 average gate... even based on the Wembley glory hunting ticket sales, that's still a whopping 0.002631578947368421% who still holds that goodwill towards him!

"Threw it all away", indeed!  Take that back!  

[WharfedaleRam]

On 29/05/2019 at 22:08, Ram8 said:

I cannot understand how so many of you can so blindly defend him and his ridiculous tactics when he has single handedly p*ss*d on your parade .. 

‘Your parade’?? Why not ‘my’ or ‘our’? Are you Bielsa in disguise?

[Rampage]

Suffice it to say, knowing what we know now, I would have attacked from kick off with Marriott and Waghorn and replaced Waghorn with Bennett when Waghorn tired. They scored at the best possible time then we gifted them a goal. Bogle needed more support. Malone was greatly missed. A couple of better crosses may have won us the game.