Poor selection

[RamNut]

totally agree with @VulcanRam

[cheron85]

14 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

At least I don't resort to personal comments because you have a difference of opinion. Opinion not backed up by the result.

If you're delicate enough to be offended by "grumbly existence" then I sincerely apologise - I thought you were well known around here as a grumbler but if you consider yourself the soul of positivity and light then I apologise for offending by suggesting you weren't

You might be a grumbler but you're OUR grumbler - Would just be nice if you gave everyone a break from it when we're all a bit down in the dumps

[Ram8]

I admit I probably went a little ‘over the top’ in my long rant, by suggesting that FL should be dismissed, and I also didn’t realise Duane Holmes was still injured; but I stand by my analysis of his wrong-headed tactics.

To get so close to the Premiership and not have the balls to go for it with positive tactics is unforgivable, and displays his inability to learn from the experience he’s been through this season, and of course in his long and eminently successful playing career. He didn’t just get one thing wrong, he got the whole ‘ball game’ wrong ! Selection, tactics, timing of substitutions, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ! 

And those of you for whom he can do no wrong, please just admit for once that he let us all down by his ineptitude when the chips were really down .. the club, the fans, the players. He should not be allowed to get away with all that on this forum, which is our platform for expressing our views, whether they be praise for him, or criticism of him. 

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

If you're delicate enough to be offended by "grumbly existence" then I sincerely apologise - I thought you were well known around here as a grumbler but if you consider yourself the soul of positivity and light then I apologise for offending by suggesting you weren't

You might be a grumbler but you're OUR grumbler - Would just be nice if you gave everyone a break from it when we're all a bit down in the dumps

This is a message board for posters to put across their views - I'm annoyed that we wasted another opportunity to gain promotion. Lots see it as a jolly good season, fair enough, that's their pov. Lots seem quite happy. So it seems only fair that those of us who are pissed off with the Derby display, until about 15 minutes from the end, should be able to say so.

The thread title should give you a clue as to the contents - did you want a sub-heading of 'delicate snowflakes needn't read the contents of this rant'?

[Archied]

3 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

I admit I probably went a little ‘over the top’ in my long rant, by suggesting that FL should be dismissed, and I also didn’t realise Duane Holmes was still injured; but I stand by my analysis of his wrong-headed tactics.

To get so close to the Premiership and not have the balls to go for it with positive tactics is unforgivable, and displays his inability to learn from the experience he’s been through this season, and of course in his long and eminently successful playing career. He didn’t just get one thing wrong, he got the whole ‘ball game’ wrong ! Selection, tactics, substitutions, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ! 

And those of you for whom he can do no wrong, please just admit for once that he let us all down by his ineptitude when the chips were really down .. the club, the fans, the players. He should not be allowed to get away with all that on this forum, which is our platform for expressing our views, whether they be praise for him, or criticism of him. 

The problem with the ignore function is that it’s private and doesn’t allow people to publicly ignore wum drivel ,

i publicly acknowledge your post but choose to publicly ignore its content 

[cheron85]

8 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

To get so close to the Premiership and not have the balls to go for it with positive tactics is unforgivable, and displays his inability to learn from the experience he’s been through this season, and of course in his long and eminently successful playing career. He didn’t just get one thing wrong, he got the whole ‘ball game’ wrong ! Selection, tactics, timing of substitutions, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ! 

Results against Villa this season:

0-3

4-0

2-1

In which game did Lampard get it most wrong?

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is a message board for posters to put across their views - I'm annoyed that we wasted another opportunity to gain promotion. Lots see it as a jolly good season, fair enough, that's their pov. Lots seem quite happy. So it seems only fair that those of us who are pissed off with the Derby display, until about 15 minutes from the end, should be able to say so.

The thread title should give you a clue as to the contents - did you want a sub-heading of 'delicate snowflakes needn't read the contents of this rant'?

I think this season in the league Leeds smashed us - In the first leg they comfortably beat us - Lampard made some changes in the second leg and it worked

I think this season in the league Villa smashed us - Lampard made some changes - Villa only just beat us and if not for a couple of mistakes we could have had them

No one's happy dude - But some of us are at least trying to reach for the positives rather than keep banging on about the negatives

And I find it amusing you call me a 'snowflake' when you whined about 'grumbly' being a personal insult

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Results against Villa this season:

0-3

4-0

2-1

In which game did Lampard get it most wrong?

...

And I find it amusing you call me a 'snowflake' when you whined about 'grumbly' being a personal insult

I didn't call you a snowflake - I said should the thread have a subtitle. You're the one whining, trying to find positives in a poor display (bar 15 minutes).

Lampard got it most wrong in the last game against Villa - the one that meant the most. He got it right against L**ds through accident, if Holmes hadn't have been injured he'd never have brought Marriott on when he did. He thinks the only way to play the game is the way he did 'through lots of effort and perspiration', no room for other styles.

There is one thread on the board at the moment that is discussing 'the negatives' - if you find it so bothersome why not go and spread your sunshine on one of the other threads? Why do you feel it necessary to keep telling me Lampard got it right. When he so patently didn't.

 

He could have taken the team that beat L**ds and made them fly, he could have told them they were favourites now, not underdogs. Instead he reminded them they have feet of clay...

 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't call you a snowflake - I said should the thread have a subtitle. You're the one whining, trying to find positives in a poor display (bar 15 minutes).

Lampard got it most wrong in the last game against Villa - the one that meant the most. He got it right against L**ds through accident, if Holmes hadn't have been injured he'd never have brought Marriott on when he did. He thinks the only way to play the game is the way he did 'through lots of effort and perspiration', no room for other styles.

There is one thread on the board at the moment that is discussing 'the negatives' - if you find it so bothersome why not go and spread your sunshine on one of the other threads? Why do you feel it necessary to keep telling me Lampard got it right. When he so patently didn't.

 

He could have taken the team that beat L**ds and made them fly, he could have told them they were favourites now, not underdogs. Instead he reminded them they have feet of clay...

 

Perhaps the team that flew at Leeds flew because they were underdogs?

[cheron85]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't call you a snowflake - I said should the thread have a subtitle. You're the one whining, trying to find positives in a poor display (bar 15 minutes).

Yeh, you did - Look here I'll quote it for you - You didn't directly state it but you asked if I specifically wanted a sub-heading in which you give a statement about what I should be prepared for...

57 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The thread title should give you a clue as to the contents - did you want a sub-heading of 'delicate snowflakes needn't read the contents of this rant'?

I'm really pleased for you with your 20-20 hindsight - I'm sure you would be a much better manager than anyone else we've had

 

[Mucker1884]

10 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

That we lost?

Also, and I'm sorry to bring this up here, it isn't a criticism of you Dave, but I don't buy all this "we were lucky to be there", "it was a free hit", and "it didn't matter because we'd done well just to get there". It's a losers' mentality and I genuinely believe it affected the way the crowd supported the team. We earned our place and earned the shot through guts, determination and bloody hard work, and should not feel somehow lucky or undeserving for getting there. I expected to win yesterday and was not happy about how we approached the game. All that effort against Leeds and it counted for nothing because when it really mattered, we didn't bring our A game or play the way we know we can.

But that's life, and that's football. And I agree that there have been some good times this season. I've enjoyed it and I'm a big fan of Frank and Jody. The summer will be interesting in that we don't know whether they can build on what they've done so far or, given the potential high numbers of departures, have to start from scratch again.

Ultimately though we start back where we began. In the Championship for year 11 in a row. 

 

The highlighted bit has been pretty much my outlook over the past few weeks, and certainly over the past few days.

I didn't consider the "loser's mentality" aspect, but I did comment to Muckerette that I think I've caught "Little club syndrome", so maybe that's a similar thing?
I've had a great weekend away (Travel issues aside), and I'd do it again.  Obviously, it could have been better!

I can honestly say though, despite this inner outlook, it didn't affect the way I supported the team inside the stadium.  Just like the players, I did my best, and arguably did more than many, despite the lack of encouraging signs from the pitch.  I'm happy to sit/stand and shout encouragement to the team, but I've never been the sort to try and bully/cajole those around me to join in.  If they choose to just sit and stare "at that gobby moron", so be it!

I'm not proud of feeling like this, and I know league tables are very much like photographs, when it comes to their mutual failings to be able to tell untruths, but whilst it has been a good season, an exciting season at times, I'm not convinced we were "good enough".  The odd game aside, I haven't felt the same excitement (this season) that I did throughout the 13/14 season.  Maybe never as high as this season's PO semi at Leeds, but certainly more consistent throughout the season.  For sheer excitement, expectation, and awe, 13/14 knocks spots off this season, imo.  That season we "should" have gone up.  We played like world beaters week after week, and the beautiful game was no more evident elsewhere than it was at PPS (or was it iPro back then?). 
That May, I was gutted... for the players as much as the fans/myself.  This season doesn't feel such a let down to me.  There have been no tears.

I came away on Monday muttering to anyone who cared to listen, that we got what we deserved on the day, and got what we deserved throughout the season.  I wouldn't say we were lucky to get this far, but I'd certainly say there have consistently been 3 teams (at least) who have been better than us this season, so I don't see this final standing as being unfair, unlucky, or undeserved.

We ended up falling at the last hurdle.  From how the entire season has panned out, I can accept that, and look forward to going at least one step further next season.

UTR

[sonofmidnight]

26 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

The highlighted bit has been pretty much my outlook over the past few weeks, and certainly over the past few days.

I didn't consider the "loser's mentality" aspect, but I did comment to Muckerette that I think I've caught "Little club syndrome", so maybe that's a similar thing?
I've had a great weekend away (Travel issues aside), and I'd do it again.  Obviously, it could have been better!

I can honestly say though, despite this inner outlook, it didn't affect the way I supported the team inside the stadium.  Just like the players, I did my best, and arguably did more than many, despite the lack of encouraging signs from the pitch.  I'm happy to sit/stand and shout encouragement to the team, but I've never been the sort to try and bully/cajole those around me to join in.  If they choose to just sit and stare "at that gobby moron", so be it!

I'm not proud of feeling like this, and I know league tables are very much like photographs, when it comes to their mutual failings to be able to tell untruths, but whilst it has been a good season, an exciting season at times, I'm not convinced we were "good enough".  The odd game aside, I haven't felt the same excitement (this season) that I did throughout the 13/14 season.  Maybe never as high as this season's PO semi at Leeds, but certainly more consistent throughout the season.  For sheer excitement, expectation, and awe, 13/14 knocks spots off this season, imo.  That season we "should" have gone up.  We played like world beaters week after week, and the beautiful game was no more evident elsewhere than it was at PPS (or was it iPro back then?). 
That May, I was gutted... for the players as much as the fans/myself.  This season doesn't feel such a let down to me.  There have been no tears.

I came away on Monday muttering to anyone who cared to listen, that we got what we deserved on the day, and got what we deserved throughout the season.  I wouldn't say we were lucky to get this far, but I'd certainly say there have consistently been 3 teams (at least) who have been better than us this season, so I don't see this final standing as being unfair, unlucky, or undeserved.

We ended up falling at the last hurdle.  From how the entire season has panned out, I can accept that, and look forward to going at least one step further next season.

UTR

Excellent post and echoes my thoughts exactly. The football was much more entertaining and exciting than last season but we were too inconsistent and at times too careless to deserve promotion this year. I have high hopes for next year with Frank and Jodie at the helm - automatic promotion.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

If I was in that Villa dressing room I’d have been lifted and more confident if I saw Marriott and Waghorn on the bench, and us playing a player up front who doesn’t score goals.  I’m not buying that Marriott wasn’t fit, he played over 50 minutes in an intense games against Leeds almost 2 weeks ago so he’d have plenty of time for recovery. He could have at the very least played 60 minutes. We could have played two up front(Marriott and Bennett), and then brought Waghorn and Jozefzoon just like we did when we went 2-0 down. Bennett worked hard but there was no-one behind him supporting his press.

 I was disappointed in Lampard because we abandoned our principles of what got us to the final, we showed fear at the start like a Rowett team would do, until we went 2-0 and then it was realistically too late to turn the game around . Lampard said after the Leeds game that we wouldn’t play with fear but to be it appeared that we did, in the line up and the game plan until we made the subs. None of Waghorn, Jozefzoon or Marriott showed fear when they came on and didn’t show Villa respect like some of the others did.

I cannot overstate my liking for this post! I'm so annoyed that we wasted another great opportunity to go up. We all thought when we lost against QPR that it didn't hurt so much as next season we'd cast all before us...and then what happened. Nothing is pre-ordained in football. Chances need to be taken when they come along.

[Shaftesbury st]

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I agree, but I'd have risked more than Lampard did. He had us down as underdogs so had less to lose. Imagine if he'd gone for it like Mac & Simmo used?! For me he seems very studious and such and less about inspiration and risk. Just my opinion of course before the FL fanboys start...

I think there has been some naivety at times during the season but that’s all in the learning process, good things to come I hope  

[Sexydadbod]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I cannot overstate my liking for this post! I'm so annoyed that we wasted another great opportunity to go up. We all thought when we lost against QPR that it didn't hurt so much as next season we'd cast all before us...and then what happened. Nothing is pre-ordained in football. Chances need to be taken when they come along.

Bang on. It’s all well and good saying well, we are in a rebuilding  stage so the final didn’t really matter as we will get there in the future, it doesn’t work like that. I re-call Gary Neville saying something similar during the World Cup before the Croatia game that the players needed to stop saying we were in the early stages of their  development and seize the moment as you may never find yourselves such a good position again, highlighting that maybe the England golden generation let the world cups pass them by as they kept saying, we will do better next time, but before they knew it , it was too late .

[LeedsCityRam]

I've seen you posting in other threads/reacting to other content so I wouldn't put you in the same bracket. No issue with counter-opinions, am less fond of folk who only turn up to complain about managerial decisions & disappear when managers get it right for fear of it disproving the basis of their agenda.

On ‎28‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 19:25, KCG said:

Someone levelled the same allegation at me yesterday and I've been posting regularly throughout. Seems people only notice if they don't like your opinion.

 

Onto the topic in hand - like others on here, I possibly wouldn't have started with that XI but I can see the logic in it. Its all well & good saying 'we should have been brave' but the reality is we'd been beaten comfortably in 2 other games by Villa this season. Whilst the natural reply would be 'yeah but Leeds had the same record against us', Leeds were psychologically very damaged after missing out on automatic promotion & were there for the taking. We just needed a break & as soon as Marriott scored the first at Elland Road particularly because of the type of goal it was & when it was, they were done.

Villa have been in sensational form since February - had they scored very early on, Monday could have been messy. Therefore I get the 2 DM selection & I also understand why we didn't start with 2 up front, which caused so much damage to Leeds in the second half there. We wanted to be solid.

I also think Bennett's selection was justified by Waghorn's injury issues and Marriott's struggles when playing as a lone striker. The idea was clearly to play our way into the game, seal up Grealish and McGinn and then release Marriott and Waghorn later on. And it would have worked were it not for a GK howler. 

Going gung-ho is not always the smart move - people are referencing Rowett but there are plenty of excellent managers who have known when to play safe & when to open up - Fergie was a master at it. I fully support Lampard's approach & had we been more clinical after Waghorn's goal, the story could have been very different.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Going gung-ho is not always the smart move - people are referencing Rowett but there are plenty of excellent managers who have known when to play safe & when to open up - Fergie was a master at it. I fully support Lampard's approach & had we been more clinical after Waghorn's goal, the story could have been very different.

It's hardly going gung-ho starting with Marriott or a wide man or both. You can support FL all you like, the result speaks for itself.

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

It's hardly going gung-ho starting with Marriott or a wide man or both. You can support FL all you like, the result speaks for itself.

Losing 2-1 to a team who are statistically better than us - yeah, what a disgrace.

Assume you were just as savage after we 'bottled it' in 2014? Barely had a shot on target against 10 men I seem to recall

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Losing 2-1 to a team who are statistically better than us - yeah, what a disgrace.

Assume you were just as savage after we 'bottled it' in 2014? Barely had a shot on target against 10 men I seem to recall

With the benefit of hindsight on that final - which Lampard had - it is plain to see that chances have to be taken, which might mean taking risks. For me Lampard is a stats man. When do you think he's have bought Marriott on against L**ds if Holmes hadn't been injured?!

[KCG]

25 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I've seen you posting in other threads/reacting to other content so I wouldn't put you in the same bracket. No issue with counter-opinions, am less fond of folk who only turn up to complain about managerial decisions & disappear when managers get it right for fear of it disproving the basis of their agenda.

 

Onto the topic in hand - like others on here, I possibly wouldn't have started with that XI but I can see the logic in it. Its all well & good saying 'we should have been brave' but the reality is we'd been beaten comfortably in 2 other games by Villa this season. Whilst the natural reply would be 'yeah but Leeds had the same record against us', Leeds were psychologically very damaged after missing out on automatic promotion & were there for the taking. We just needed a break & as soon as Marriott scored the first at Elland Road particularly because of the type of goal it was & when it was, they were done.

Villa have been in sensational form since February - had they scored very early on, Monday could have been messy. Therefore I get the 2 DM selection & I also understand why we didn't start with 2 up front, which caused so much damage to Leeds in the second half there. We wanted to be solid.

I also think Bennett's selection was justified by Waghorn's injury issues and Marriott's struggles when playing as a lone striker. The idea was clearly to play our way into the game, seal up Grealish and McGinn and then release Marriott and Waghorn later on. And it would have worked were it not for a GK howler. 

Going gung-ho is not always the smart move - people are referencing Rowett but there are plenty of excellent managers who have known when to play safe & when to open up - Fergie was a master at it. I fully support Lampard's approach & had we been more clinical after Waghorn's goal, the story could have been very different.

Not really sure that playing 2 forwards is being gung-ho. I have already said I had no problem with Bennett playing, because Waghorn coming in at start was probably a risk not worth taking.

Given that Lawrence, Mount and Wilson were very quiet I'd have been tempted to keep Bennett on. He was probably knackered though.

[Ram8]

I don’t want to get involved in certain personal arguments, but I can understand the frustration of everyone on here. We were all revved up for an exciting match with some adventurous football, and a great chance of achieving Premiership football next season. We didn’t get the adventurous football because our highly rated and much loved manager bottled it on the big stage, and as a result we have yet another season of biting our nails to the bone in the Championship against Wigan, Millwall, Reading and Barnsley; whilst our opponents can look forward to receiving Man. City and United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea !

Thank you Frank Lampard, you had all the good will in the world from the Derby County support, but you threw it all away with your ridiculous selections and cautious safety first football .. !!