GboroRam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: What about drivers that kill people? After they serve their punishment they are allowed back on the roads again. I'm not trying to make light of racism but a lifetime ban for a first offence is harsh imo, offering the offender the chance to learn and grow as a person should be what we strive for in society imo - not cast them out forever. You make a conscious decision to behave in a racist way, and to continue to hold racist views. If someone makes a conscious decision to kill someone with a car, I'd have no problem taking their right to drive away permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, GboroRam said: You make a conscious decision to behave in a racist way, and to continue to hold racist views. If someone makes a conscious decision to kill someone with a car, I'd have no problem taking their right to drive away permanently. You make a conscious decision to use your mobile whilst driving. Virtually every crime allows the chance of redemption and reintergration, I just find the notion of lifetime bans extremely harsh for first offences. I also find it extremely harsh when footballers only get a 6 game ban for racism. I guess its easier to sell the seat in the stadium to another fan than it is to spend millions buying a new player. Why not set an example and issue lifetime bans for players? Or season bans. A 6 week ban for a footballer is 4 weeks in Dubai and 2 weeks back training. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-racism/fa-increases-minimum-ban-for-racist-abuse-to-six-matches-idUKKCN1UR3DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: You make a conscious decision to use your mobile whilst driving. Virtually every crime allows the chance of redemption and reintergration, I just find the notion of lifetime bans extremely harsh for first offences. I also find it extremely harsh when footballers only get a 6 game ban for racism. I guess its easier to sell the seat in the stadium to another fan than it is to spend millions buying a new player. Why not set an example and issue lifetime bans for players? Or season bans. A 6 week ban for a footballer is 4 weeks in Dubai and 2 weeks back training. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-racism/fa-increases-minimum-ban-for-racist-abuse-to-six-matches-idUKKCN1UR3DC You're talking about loss of freedoms and loss of livlihood and comparing it to no longer being able to attend football matches. Its not that big a deal. The people banned would get on with their lives pretty normally, they just wouldn't be able to go and monkey chant at black footballers. Because of that temporary bans just don't really come across as punishment. This is far more comparable to being permanently banned from a pub or restaurant than it is to murder or manslaughter charges. A perfectly reasonable approach to someone being abhorrent in your building / at an event that you run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, SaintRam said: You're talking about loss of freedoms and loss of livlihood and comparing it to no longer being able to attend football matches. Its not that big a deal. The people banned would get on with their lives pretty normally, they just wouldn't be able to go and monkey chant at black footballers. Because of that temporary bans just don't really come across as punishment. This is far more comparable to being permanently banned from a pub or restaurant than it is to murder or manslaughter charges. A perfectly reasonable approach to someone being abhorrent in your building / at an event that you run. I'd still disagree that a lifetime ban for a first offence is appropriate. Yes I'm talking about something slightly different but I'm also making the analogy that if we can forgive some of the worst crimes imaginable we could offer re-education and reintegration for racists. I also argue that its far easier for football to virtue signal and stand up to racism when banning fans than it is tackle racism within the game itself as per my previous post. I don't mean to detract from the seriousness of racist comments or actions but a lifetime ban for one and a 6 game ban (potentially at 2 games per week thats just 3 weeks) for another is ridiculous. I appreciate what yours and @GboroRam points of view but feel as though we're approaching this for different angles so I'll leave it here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: I'd still disagree that a lifetime ban for a first offence is appropriate. Yes I'm talking about something slightly different but I'm also making the analogy that if we can forgive some of the worst crimes imaginable we could offer re-education and reintegration for racists. I also argue that its far easier for football to virtue signal and stand up to racism when banning fans than it is tackle racism within the game itself as per my previous post. I don't mean to detract from the seriousness of racist comments or actions but a lifetime ban for one and a 6 game ban (potentially at 2 games per week thats just 3 weeks) for another is ridiculous. I appreciate what yours and @GboroRam points of view but feel as though we're approaching this for different angles so I'll leave it here ? I agree that the punishment for players is too light; but being related to football doesn't make them a shared conversation. Handing a lengthy ban to someone that stops them doing their job is a very, very different kettle of fish to handing a lengthy ban to someone to stop them attending events they have to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 months in the slammer and a 10 year ban for first offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Well this is thoroughly depressing https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50714808 'A 13-year-old Burnley fan is being investigated by police for making an alleged racist gesture to Tottenham forward Son Heung-min on Saturday.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Well this is thoroughly depressing https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50714808 'A 13-year-old Burnley fan is being investigated by police for making an alleged racist gesture to Tottenham forward Son Heung-min on Saturday.' Lifetime ban for him as well or education? 5 hours ago, SaintRam said: I agree that the punishment for players is too light; but being related to football doesn't make them a shared conversation. Handing a lengthy ban to someone that stops them doing their job is a very, very different kettle of fish to handing a lengthy ban to someone to stop them attending events they have to pay for. Disagree, if you racially abused someone at work you would expect to get sacked. Football should be no different, especially if you are going to ban fans for life. At least we agree on punishment for players being to light ? New article on Sky, Troy Townsend urges for more action against racism in football https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11882437/troy-townsend-urges-for-more-action-against-racism-in-football More than what? Publically shaming individuals, banning them from grounds and subjecting them to the police/courts whilst the twitter mob jump on and out their family/get them sacked? Disturbing as these incidents are in the UK at least it is at most a handful of individuals out of the 14.5m people that watched premier league matches alone live last season. If it reached epidemic proportions of say 20k people per year getting arrested that would still only be 0.125%. Whilst I would agree that even one incident is one to many and the goal should be to reduce it to zero idiots have existed forever and will continue to do so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: Lifetime ban for him as well or education? ? For me, a ban, not lifetime though, and education. Also would want to question the 'guardian', someone else who may need education, depending on course on how they handled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Anyone else baffled what message the Italian FA are trying to get across? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50814275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Paul71 said: Anyone else baffled what message the Italian FA are trying to get across? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50814275 Never underestimate the stupidity of the people. Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 in a really bizarre way, his explanation (the artist) makes a bit of sense, but if you have to explain it, then it's open to misinterpretation. I did spit out some coffee though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 47 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: in a really bizarre way, his explanation (the artist) makes a bit of sense, but if you have to explain it, then it's open to misinterpretation. I did spit out some coffee though! I get what they are trying to say, but especially in an age where people get offended because ASDA are selling tshirts that say cheeky monkey on, then its not been thought through at all well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 57 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: in a really bizarre way, his explanation (the artist) makes a bit of sense, but if you have to explain it, then it's open to misinterpretation. I did spit out some coffee though! Yes, when you read what he says you can see that it is well meaning, but naive. What it points to is a lack of diversity in the Italian FA. This is exactly why big companies make such a fuss about diversity. If they had more views and cultures represented this would never have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 With regards the Serie A campaign, I think the pictures are good. Also think the league could have, possibly inadvertently, pulled off a master stroke. First rule of a campaign is to get people talking about your campaign, which because people see monkeys and racism in the same sentence and automatically put 2 and 2 together, it will (hopefully beyond the social media bubble). People will then hopefully read or hear about what the artist is trying to convey and think 'you know what, that's a simple message and one which I agree with'. Education is the answer and hopefully this goes some way to addressing that. Granted it appears a bit ham-fisted, but I think it's a good idea. Probably makes the mistake of thinking people will take time to think about things, rather than be served it on a platter a la UEFA's mindless 'No to Racism' mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JoetheRam said: With regards the Serie A campaign, I think the pictures are good. Also think the league could have, possibly inadvertently, pulled off a master stroke. First rule of a campaign is to get people talking about your campaign, which because people see monkeys and racism in the same sentence and automatically put 2 and 2 together, it will (hopefully beyond the social media bubble). People will then hopefully read or hear about what the artist is trying to convey and think 'you know what, that's a simple message and one which I agree with'. Education is the answer and hopefully this goes some way to addressing that. Granted it appears a bit ham-fisted, but I think it's a good idea. Probably makes the mistake of thinking people will take time to think about things, rather than be served it on a platter a la UEFA's mindless 'No to Racism' mantra. Good post,made me think a bit more about the whole thing rather than just bouncing around in front of the tv like some sort of cracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 i think it's a brilliant campaign poster by Serie A and that's the problem, it's too cerebral for many in the offended as a hobby lobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, ramit said: i think it's a brilliant campaign poster by Serie A and that's the problem, it's too cerebral for many in the offended as a hobby lobby. Black people are literally coming out and are offended by it, who the hell are you decide if they should or shouldn't be offended by something racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Srg said: Black people are literally coming out and are offended by it, who the hell are you decide if they should or shouldn't be offended by something racist? It's not racist. Those who are offended by it aren't understanding the message, that all races are related to apes. i am a person with an opinion and i don't need your permission to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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