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Srg

The Increase in Racism

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Seems to me that racism in football is on the rise, and when I say on the rise, I mean it's being outed and reported far more currently - I'm not naive enough to think it's suddenly gotten worse.

From Sterling's actions and call out following England in Montenegro, to Moise Kean v Bonucci, our very own Duane Holmes, to Christian Kabesele and Adrian Mariappa at the weekend and a few others I've missed. It all seems to have come out recently compared to the last few months and seasons.

The trigger seems to be Sterling having the balls to say something and other players feeling they can follow suit and follow his example because there's enough support out there. Whilst racism is abhorrent, the silver lining in all of this is finally it's being accept to out these scumbags and let them feel the wrath of the public and the law. The next stage is for preventative measures and sanctions within the game - but given Fifa/Uefa track record, that maybe lacking on the world stage for a while yet.

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54 minutes ago, Srg said:

...The next stage is for preventative measures and sanctions within the game - but given Fifa/Uefa track record, that maybe lacking on the world stage for a while yet.

I'm not too sure we can be too harsh on these governing bodies... unless of course it's for something happening on the pitch between players, or at training grounds etc, within the football clubs themselves.

When it comes to so-called fans aiming their bile at players... or vice versa for that matter... it has to be seen as society's problem, not a football club's, or a football governing body.  I'm not keen on all this fining clubs and/or docking points, for the actions of one ridiculously stupid and ignorant eejit who hides behind the banner of said football club.  Yes, the club can ban the individual after the event, but I'm not sure how we can expect them to put a stop to it.  Fences might stop the pitch encroachment and assaults on players/refs etc, but a) we don't want fences back, and b) they ain't gonna stop the monkey chants/mimicry, and the banana throwing etc.

And I'm guessing this sort of thing goes on just as much away from the footy... down town on a Saturday night, in the popcorn queue at the pictures, back of the late bus home, walking home from school across the park.

Let's forget about it being a problem for football, lets stop putting the blame on clubs, and FA's etc.  Wherever it happens, dob 'em in (To the police, not a steward, a litter picker, or a park warden!) , and start aiming the responsibility back where it should be... Preventative measures by kith, kin, and peers, and punishment by the lawmakers.  It's the police, the courts, and the politicians that need a gee up, not football authorities.  That's where we should be aiming both our on-line digs, and our official complaints, in our attempts to put a stop to it!

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1 hour ago, sage said:

I think some racist people have reacted to Sterling and Rose but I also feel that people feel empowered to be more openly racist than they were 10 years ago in society in general. 

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I think it positive that there is more reporting of unacceptable behaviour (although i will qualify that by saying that its only if the right steps are taken as a result that progress will be made) - whether there is more or less racism in society in general i find it very difficult to say.

I was brought up in the early to mid 1970's and stood alongside Grandpa Hants at Yeovil as he referred to black players using all sorts of terms that would nowadays have him arrested. He wasn't screaming them angrily though - he was often almost trying to offer advice to the Yeovil players  "watch out for the ******** behind you!" being a common such example.

Different times. It is going to take some while to chip away at these societal attitudes. Not helped by the blame game following any hint of perceived cause for other ills.

 

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On 09/04/2019 at 14:52, sage said:

I think some racist people have reacted to Sterling and Rose but I also feel that people feel empowered to be more openly racist than they were 10 years ago in society in general. 

Yes absolutely. Even more recently, perhaps the past 4 - 5 years? Don't understand how even the minority feel it's OK to do be racist in a sporting arena. 

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It really does seem to be getting worse. There seems to be a report of it almost weekly right now. 

Its almost like the mindless morons amongst us see it happening and think 'that's clever' and can't help themselves.

 

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As a counter argument, the word racism means much less these days than it did 10 years ago.

I am certainly not condoning anything here but most of these incidents are being reported as racism purely on the word of the victim.

Not seen the Chelsea video but obviously sounds bad and I'm certainly not referring to that in my above sentences. 

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7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

As a counter argument, the word racism means much less these days than it did 10 years ago.

I am certainly not condoning anything here but most of these incidents are being reported as racism purely on the word of the victim.

Not seen the Chelsea video but obviously sounds bad and I'm certainly not referring to that in my above sentences. 

I would say most are obvious. I agree however some may be the word of the alleged victim and i think this is an issue, hasn't there been recent examples?  The burton player and sophie jones, both examples where there was no other evidence and the word of the alleged victim used to find the other guilty.

It does almost seem fashionable to accuse someone of racism. And for me it dilutes the outrage we should feel when morons like the Chelsea fans say what they do but we lump them in with someone who uses the word coloured by accident or the ex footballer (cant remember who) who tweets hes starving and looking forward to ordering a chinky when het gets home.

Not saying we should ignore and not educate those who make mistakes but lets not make as much of it as those who intend to offend.

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11 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I would say most are obvious. I agree however some may be the word of the alleged victim and i think this is an issue, hasn't there been recent examples?  The burton player and sophie jones, both examples where there was no other evidence and the word of the alleged victim used to find the other guilty.

It does almost seem fashionable to accuse someone of racism. And for me it dilutes the outrage we should feel when morons like the Chelsea fans say what they do but we lump them in with someone who uses the word coloured by accident or the ex footballer (cant remember who) who tweets hes starving and looking forward to ordering a chinky when het gets home.

Not saying we should ignore and not educate those who make mistakes but lets not make as much of it as those who intend to offend.

At the danger of raking up old graves...

Personally I think it is impossible to judge somebody a racist by the language they may use in a one off situation. Obviously if the behaviour is repeatedly used then it's a different story.

Language that people refer to as racism is often just language used to promote a reaction and probably bears little resemblance to the persons actual thoughts. 

Why is there not such outrage at fans calling players fat or bald or ginger? 

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

At the danger of raking up old graves...

Personally I think it is impossible to judge somebody a racist by the language they may use in a one off situation. Obviously if the behaviour is repeatedly used then it's a different story.

Language that people refer to as racism is often just language used to promote a reaction and probably bears little resemblance to the persons actual thoughts. 

Why is there not such outrage at fans calling players fat or bald or ginger? 

So the John Terry incident is an example for me, i think in the heat of the moment he lashed out. Very wrong and should be taken to task but different to a bunch of fans filming themselves chanting obscene comments about salah.

Thats premeditated to me so makes them racist.

I think its about context. If i walk over to a black chap in the street and say duck off you black see you next tuesday then thats clearly racist.  If i get mugged and hit in the face by someone who happens to be black and i repeat the same words, its an outburst, not racially motivated.

Of course some would accuse me of being racist for using that example. Im not suggesting im more likely to be mugged by a black chap im just using it as an example.

I dont agree with your fat ginger bald comments however, its not the same.

 

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2 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I dont agree with your fat ginger bald comments however, its not the same.

That's fine I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say.

Interested to know what you think is different? 

Abuse is abuse surely? 

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As another counter argument aren't we just more aware of racism now as a society?  And aren't Kick it Out campaigns and the like designed to call it out when you see/hear it?  In a perverse kinda way more racism being exposed is proof that these campaigns are working.

I go to most home games and can't say I've heard anything racist in a long time.  10 years ago you'd hear racial slurs quite often and further back in time whole sections of the crowd singing racist songs. 

Thats not to say there still aren't racists around, but it does seem to be more individual idiots these days rather than larger groups. 

Unfortunately we'll probably never rid the game or society of these people, in the same way as we'll never rid society of murder.  All we can do is call it out and punish/re-educate the people that do it 😕

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All my family are Notts County fans and my first visit to wembley was to watch Neil Warnocks Black & White Army vs Brighton Hove Albion in the play off final - I must've been 10ish, so 30 years ago,ish. All I remember from that day is needing a wee on the coach, stepping out in to the crowd and seeing more people than I'd ever seen before in one place, and being horrified by the racist language used by my own cousins and uncles. I remember Kevin Bartlett in particular was never referred to by his actual name. 

I've not once seen or heard anything at Pride Park even remotely racist. Although I've bumped a fair few brexiteers off facebook for their horrendous racist posts. 

I'd suggest football, or at least English football has come a lot further in the last 30 years than general English society.

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Posted (edited)

Must admit, being a bit thick, I'm struggling with this latest incident...

"Salah is a bomber", they sang.

Assuming he isn't (I rarely watch the news, but I don't recall anything suggesting he has been involved in anything like that), then I'd say that song is extremely offensive... slanderous even (so I assume also illegal?) but where is the racism?  What have I missed?   Are they saying he is a bomber, merely because he is Egyptian?  I don't get it!

I see abuse.  I see slander.  I see *********... but where does race come in to it?  Is there some relationship between bombers/terrorists and Egypt?  Again... What have I missed?

 

Edited by Mucker1884
that said kn*b Heads... it was important to the point I was making!

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3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

I see abuse.  I see slander.  I see *********... but where does race come in to it?  Is there some relationship between bombers/terrorists and Egypt?  Again... What have I missed?

Maybe this:

The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks

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3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Must admit, being a bit thick, I'm struggling with this latest incident...

"Salah is a bomber", they sang.

Assuming he isn't (I rarely watch the news, but I don't recall anything suggesting he has been involved in anything like that), then I'd say that song is extremely offensive... slanderous even (so I assume also illegal?) but where is the racism?  What have I missed?   Are they saying he is a bomber, merely because he is Egyptian?  I don't get it!

I see abuse.  I see slander.  I see *********... but where does race come in to it?  Is there some relationship between bombers/terrorists and Egypt?  Again... What have I missed?

 

He’s Muslim, that’s why they link him to being a “bomber”

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18 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

At the danger of raking up old graves...

Personally I think it is impossible to judge somebody a racist by the language they may use in a one off situation. Obviously if the behaviour is repeatedly used then it's a different story.

Language that people refer to as racism is often just language used to promote a reaction and probably bears little resemblance to the persons actual thoughts. 

Why is there not such outrage at fans calling players fat or bald or ginger? 

I was brought up when my family used the term "darkies" in all sorts of situations that in their minds at least, were not intended as racism. The words were basically used and intended as descriptors. 

I completely get that it's not an acceptable term now. But I agree that those of us who were brought up hearing those terms in a different context might make the odd slip 👍

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