The Increase in Racism

[ramit]

A fan supports a club and naturally wants the best players at the club, be they black, white, pink or whatever

Any other stance is madness

Racism toward players of an opponent team would be just as nonsensical, for by embracing our own team's diversely originating talents, we acknowledge theirs

And so, racism in football is illogical

[Mucker1884]

20 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Maybe this:

The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks

 

20 hours ago, Ramarena said:

He’s Muslim, that’s why they link him to being a “bomber”

 

So the first possibility gives a 5% stat, which in my book makes these bozos even more stupid, and even more offensive than I first thought of them!

The second possibility doesn't even consider race... solely religion... so not sure where all these claims of racism would come from.  That's like calling a rapist of an adult a paedophile.  Both heinous crimes of course, but both coming under completely separate "titles".  It seems some are using racism calls as it seems to be becoming fashionable!  There is no Muslim race.

No wonder I was confused!

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

There is no Muslim race.

Correct, however MSM and Al-Qaeda has hammered it in to one, if you look up the London 7/7 bombings, one of the bombers states it's all about Islam and the way the west is attacking it.  But hey, it fails to mention the Christians and Shia Muslim that are slaughtered in Africa and the Far East, by the Sunni Muslims.

It is also the fastest growing religion in the world today.

[Ramarena]

6 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

 

So the first possibility gives a 5% stat, which in my book makes these bozos even more stupid, and even more offensive than I first thought of them!

The second possibility doesn't even consider race... solely religion... so not sure where all these claims of racism would come from.  That's like calling a rapist of an adult a paedophile.  Both heinous crimes of course, but both coming under completely separate "titles".  It seems some are using racism calls as it seems to be becoming fashionable!  There is no Muslim race.

No wonder I was confused!

As with all hate crimes it’s a grey area which can only really be answered by the perpetrators.....was I abusing him because of his ethnic appearance, or because I know he’s a self declared Muslim.

Just as anti semitism has links to racism, so does Islamaphobia. Incidentally West Ham fans were caught singing anti semetic chants at old trafford yesterday which has been dubbed another racist incident.

 

 

[Highgate]

6 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

So the first possibility gives a 5% stat, which in my book makes these bozos even more stupid, and even more offensive than I first thought of them!

The second possibility doesn't even consider race... solely religion... so not sure where all these claims of racism would come from.  That's like calling a rapist of an adult a paedophile.  Both heinous crimes of course, but both coming under completely separate "titles".  It seems some are using racism calls as it seems to be becoming fashionable!  There is no Muslim race.

No wonder I was confused!

In fact, there are no races at all really. Muslim, black, white, north African or otherwise.  Which makes the racism thing all the more stupid, in football or anywhere else. 

[eddie]

13 minutes ago, Highgate said:

In fact, there are no races at all really. Muslim, black, white, north African or otherwise.  Which makes the racism thing all the more stupid, in football or anywhere else. 

Agreed - just the human race, which has adapted differently through various evolutionary traits in different areas of the world to have different levels and distributions of melanin in their skin, hair and eyes, the presence of which in the skin in particular compensates for the loss of body hair.

[eddie]

Man Utd 'fans' targeting their own player on Twitter after defeat by Barcelona...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/barcelona-vs-manchester-united-ashley-young-racist-abuse-fans-supporters-kick-it-out-statement-a8873556.html

[Sith Happens]

4 hours ago, eddie said:

Man Utd 'fans' targeting their own player on Twitter after defeat by Barcelona...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/barcelona-vs-manchester-united-ashley-young-racist-abuse-fans-supporters-kick-it-out-statement-a8873556.html

People really should have to take an IQ test to gain access to the Internet 

Are todays internet bullies yesterday's phone call heavy breathers? 

 

[jono]

This is a minefield of a topic. I am vehemently anti racist. Not from changing attitudes, but simply the way I was brought up. People are people. Any judgment surely has to be based on how they behave, not what they are in some genetic pigeon hole. Yet I recognise there is a weight of less than charming history in the western world that needs to be acknowledged 

but on the other hand you get the American activists branding any white Anglo Saxon a born racist because of their ancestors brutal culture and something dark that still exists in corners of modern America and somehow we must carry guilt and be apologising. Racism or anti racism has become an industry for some. Maybe sometimes it needs to be, but at its extreme ends it is as ugly as the racism it wants to combat. 

I don’t help feeling when someone’s physical characteristics are used in a descriptive insult we enter tricky territory. This isn’t an apologists charter - the bomber thing yuk, the N word, so many connotations it’s pure poison. ....

But really, if we are truely to conquer racism we should be able to arrive at the point where Fat, Thin, Black White Tall short ARE all the same. I.e. physical characteristics that we recognise visually. They aren’t yet, I won’t deny it, so we need to be awake and to understand what black players face or have faced and for the most part I feel English football has worked very hard and is doing what it can. There will always be morons but let’s call them out whenever we can 

 

[Parsnip]

Social media boycott today - all footballers offline in protest against racism. 

No way will Waghorn keep it up. There'll be a live video of him eating an Easter egg by lunchtime.

[ronnieronalde]

Without attacking the posters and readers on here, i'm afraid this whole racism thing shows first of all how utterly thick as pig poo some football fans are, also society in general.

First of all for having such moronic narrow minded views, then for being idiotic enough to still try to get away with it. Pure scum.

It's about time something serious was done about it. They're in danger of killing the game as we know it.

[Mostyn6]

19 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Without attacking the posters and readers on here, i'm afraid this whole racism thing shows first of all how utterly thick as pig poo some football fans are, also society in general.

First of all for having such moronic narrow minded views, then for being idiotic enough to still try to get away with it. Pure scum.

It's about time something serious was done about it. They're in danger of killing the game as we know it.

I agree in principle, but in general, I think they (those attempting to eradicate it) are not going about it in the right way.

Making it criminal and shameful is just going to make people hide it better, there will still be racism lurking under the surface. It is all about education.

I can be open enough to admit that as a kid (about 5 or 6 years old), I was encouraged by laughing family to dance around with a tea cosy on my head saying "bud bud ding ding". I knew no better at that age. Nearly 40 years later, I have thankfully evolved, but if I sat back and thought about all the racial/racist things I've said in my life, I'd want to crawl under a rock! If you ask me if I was racist (then and now), I'd say I wasn't, it was not from hatred, but more from immature ignorance. My taunts to asian and black kids at school was never designed to cause hurt, but I wasn't aware of what could actually cause hurt. 

In the years since school, as I matured and my world expanded beyond the square mile where I lived and went to school, my attitude and understanding, not just of the world, but of myself, developed and I realised I am humanist. 

I still criticise people, but their race and colour does not fuel any opinion. I'm kind of like "if you're a c*nt, you're a c*nt, regardless of your background/colour/religion/ethnicity".

So, as I digress a little, this is all about education and nurturing. There was a clip of some young cockney kids in the back of a car (labelled as Millwall fans), and we are talking similar age to my tea cosy days, being encouraged to sing racist songs. This is where it needs addressing.

What you're going to get is kids going to school and integrating with all aspects of society and culture, then going home to be corrupted by ignorant parents. The conflict is huge. These kids will be hiding their feelings from home at school and from school at home.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Moist One said:

I agree in principle, but in general, I think they (those attempting to eradicate it) are not going about it in the right way.

Making it criminal and shameful is just going to make people hide it better, there will still be racism lurking under the surface. It is all about education.

I can be open enough to admit that as a kid (about 5 or 6 years old), I was encouraged by laughing family to dance around with a tea cosy on my head saying "bud bud ding ding". I knew no better at that age. Nearly 40 years later, I have thankfully evolved, but if I sat back and thought about all the racial/racist things I've said in my life, I'd want to crawl under a rock! If you ask me if I was racist (then and now), I'd say I wasn't, it was not from hatred, but more from immature ignorance. My taunts to asian and black kids at school was never designed to cause hurt, but I wasn't aware of what could actually cause hurt. 

In the years since school, as I matured and my world expanded beyond the square mile where I lived and went to school, my attitude and understanding, not just of the world, but of myself, developed and I realised I am humanist. 

I still criticise people, but their race and colour does not fuel any opinion. I'm kind of like "if you're a c*nt, you're a c*nt, regardless of your background/colour/religion/ethnicity".

So, as I digress a little, this is all about education and nurturing. There was a clip of some young cockney kids in the back of a car (labelled as Millwall fans), and we are talking similar age to my tea cosy days, being encouraged to sing racist songs. This is where it needs addressing.

What you're going to get is kids going to school and integrating with all aspects of society and culture, then going home to be corrupted by ignorant parents. The conflict is huge. These kids will be hiding their feelings from home at school and from school at home.

When I first went to infants school, the little classroom bookshelves had a series of short story books about a boy who lived in Africa called Little Black Sambo. He lived with his mother Black Mumbo and his father Big Black Jumbo.

Extraordinary, and the memory has stuck with me after all these decades.

It's ignorance. It can be broken down but it takes a long while and sadly there may be those who cannot be reasoned with as they always have to bully and will do so based on physical discriminatory features. Again, growing up in rural Derbyshire, there was no mix of races per se, so kids/people would be picked on for being short/ginger/disabled/spotty whatever by the hard-core idiots. Squeeze the insults completely sway from race (if achievable) and they'll pick on something else.

[Anag Ram]

On 09/04/2019 at 13:46, Srg said:

Seems to me that racism in football is on the rise, and when I say on the rise, I mean it's being outed and reported far more currently - I'm not naive enough to think it's suddenly gotten worse.

From Sterling's actions and call out following England in Montenegro, to Moise Kean v Bonucci, our very own Duane Holmes, to Christian Kabesele and Adrian Mariappa at the weekend and a few others I've missed. It all seems to have come out recently compared to the last few months and seasons.

The trigger seems to be Sterling having the balls to say something and other players feeling they can follow suit and follow his example because there's enough support out there. Whilst racism is abhorrent, the silver lining in all of this is finally it's being accept to out these scumbags and let them feel the wrath of the public and the law. The next stage is for preventative measures and sanctions within the game - but given Fifa/Uefa track record, that maybe lacking on the world stage for a while yet.

It's not just racism. Football grounds are full of hatred.

I pay my money to see wonderful displays of skill and athleticism. Things I could never do as a footballer.

Yet increasingly I am surrounded by those who go to vent their anger about life in general.

Like in a street riot, you can hide at a football match and behaviour which would ordinarily lead to punishment  is overlooked.

It's easy to bully a minority if you join a herd.

 

[eddie]

People who are insular in outlook generally will rarely associate with people beyond their 'tribe' unless they are forced to by events out of their control.

I was fortunate as a child because when I was just 8 years of age, my father was posted to the far east, and even though we lived in 'army married quarters' for a while, I naturally integrated and had friends who were Chinese, Malay, Nepalese, Sinhalese and Nigerian, both at school and by association through my father's work. Probably the only person I didn't get on with was a Scottish boy, and I learned later that he came from the 'Rangers' side of the sectarian divide, and he was actually brought up in that way of thinking.

When I returned to the UK in 1964, I was the person who was discriminated against for a while at school in Dover, being called all the names under the sun, purely because I looked 'different'. I am naturally quite dark-skinned, and three years in the tropics enhanced my skin tone to the extent that I was darker than my best friend at the time whose father was from Jamaica, yet he was born in England.

I can't give any solution - it's 100% nurture and 0% nature. Perhaps it will improve when a few generations die off, but I feel that all we can do is to chip away at the edges through offering zero tolerance to intolerance. I don't think it's much better now - it's just not as open.

[Stive Pesley]

On 19/04/2019 at 11:15, Moist One said:

I agree in principle, but in general, I think they (those attempting to eradicate it) are not going about it in the right way.

Making it criminal and shameful is just going to make people hide it better, there will still be racism lurking under the surface. It is all about education.

So, as I digress a little, this is all about education and nurturing. There was a clip of some young cockney kids in the back of a car (labelled as Millwall fans), and we are talking similar age to my tea cosy days, being encouraged to sing racist songs. This is where it needs addressing.

I agree - but then you also have to have repercussions for people who refuse to be educated - otherwise it's like logarithms. You get taught it but you know there is no need to use it

Also with the current free speech argument from the alt-right types - we're heading in the wrong direction if we think there should be free speech without consequences

Personally I'd rather people hide their racism than display it. "Hide it completely and leave it inside your head" is fine by me

[maxjam]

Manchester United fans top list of football-related arrests involving racism;

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11743720/manchester-united-fans-top-list-of-football-related-arrests-involving-racism

Man Utd statement: "This statistic applies to 0.0004 per cent of our match-going fanbase. It does not reflect the views or behaviour of our fans as a whole in any way"

Given that we are hyper sensitive to incidents of racism these days and Man Utd run their own 'virtual steward' text message process to allow fans to report issues like racist abuse - does this count as a success?

I know that the ideal would be zero racism and some incidents might go unreported but even a 10,000% increase would 'only' be 4% of their fanbase and I'd argue with what Troy Townsend says in the clip that clubs are taking ownership of the problem and things have massively improved over time. 

How about we focus on the positives for once?

[GboroRam]

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

How about we focus on the positives for once?

I think you are right - racism in the ground is rare. I don't think I have seen an instance in a ground and I guess most of the older generation would have to go back a long way to remember the last incident they saw. Racism is more likely to happen outside of the ground, like the Chelsea incidents on the train.

Racism hasn't gone, but football can be proud of the work that has happened to date. Still no reason to be complacent - clubs need to continue the good work, as clearly it's working. 

[Millenniumram]

What club the racism comes from is of no consequence to me, as long as the club is doing something about it which most are. It’s the fact it exists at all that’s the problem and one we should all be working together to stop. Those idiots are representative of their respective fan bases and we mustn’t let such scumbags end up representing the sport. We have to make sure we see less and less of these incidents each year until they’re eradicated, can’t let the Idiots start influencing others. It seems we’re well on the way to that by the fact the muppets make up such a tiny minority. It’s not enough till there’s none of it which should be the case in this modern world. But we’re making progress, certainly over the last decade or so as a whole.

[eddie]

Given that Man Utd have the largest fanbase by some distance, I would be genuinely amazed if they didn't have the highest number of individual racist incidents.