Rev Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 41 minutes ago, Ramleicester said: This has given breathing room for the last FFP assessment that just happened which would have taken into account a forecast for 2018/19 financial year. Assuming the operating losses have been around £25m over the last year (based on Mels comments) that leaves us fairly tight on FFP but not in points deduction territory. But... That was the gamble for this season. Sell the biggest asset and spend it. It is now spent. Hence the next stage is new owners with the ability to invest through legitimate sponsorship which will appear as revenue (like the stadium sale). Or get promoted... What I am a little uncomfortable with is that the stadium has been sold and the cash spent so quickly on what can only be described as previous financial 'mis judgement' . There can't be much if any of that cash left for the future and now we have a rent liability forever and a club with vastly reduced assets. What will happen now is that the ground and surrounding area including the veladrome will be developed with the addition of retail and leisure projects and the overall value of the site will increase massively. DCFC will not benefit from that... Where was the due dilligence in this... where was the oversight. Nobody ever said Mel was not a smart businessman lol.... I'm glad you've posted. You talked previously about redundancies behind the scene, and good people losing their jobs. Yet according to the accounts, the admin headcount has fairly shot up compared to previous years. How is that explained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramleicester Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 50 minutes ago, reveldevil said: I'm glad you've posted. You talked previously about redundancies behind the scene, and good people losing their jobs. Yet according to the accounts, the admin headcount has fairly shot up compared to previous years. How is that explained? No need to explain a thing costs have spiralled out of control at the club in the wrong area... people I know as good people lost their jobs. The lack of cost control and logic is not good. Areas like rams tv and the like grown at the expense of other areas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramleicester Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: How have we already spent the reported £39m in FFP terms? Given 16/17 was about £2m loss (£7.9 loss without FFP exclusions) and 17/18 about £20m profit (£14.6m profit without FFP exclusions), I’d find it hard to believe we’ve jumped up to £57m FFP losses for a single year. (I could be way off on FFP figures) The stadium was sold for FFP reasons - that is what we’re being told anyway. So, unless by “it is now spent” you actually mean it’s been spent on operating losses I’m not sure where you’re getting at Hi yes spent on operating losses that is my point. The stadium which was the biggest asset has been sold and the income offset agains the last two years operating losses. Does not leave too much for the future. FFP is not really the issue it is the history of the last few years spending that has been offset by the sale. Somehow the current run rate of loss needs to stop. That is why Mel needs a new investor. Bit like selling your house to pay off the wifes credit card debts lol. Problem is you can only sell the house once and my mrs loves to keep spending .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 21 hours ago, Ramleicester said: Hi yes spent on operating losses that is my point. The stadium which was the biggest asset has been sold and the income offset agains the last two years operating losses. Does not leave too much for the future. FFP is not really the issue it is the history of the last few years spending that has been offset by the sale. Somehow the current run rate of loss needs to stop. That is why Mel needs a new investor. Bit like selling your house to pay off the wifes credit card debts lol. Problem is you can only sell the house once and my mrs loves to keep spending .. It's a good point. Doesn't Mel need to get the CFO moving........start taking the axe to some department budgets etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Just had a quick glance at the club accounts. Debtors up by £60m would seem to suggest the ground has not actually been paid for and may have just been a paper transaction. Happy to new corrected if anyone has actually studied the accounts in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 On 09/04/2019 at 19:24, reveldevil said: I'm glad you've posted. You talked previously about redundancies behind the scene, and good people losing their jobs. Yet according to the accounts, the admin headcount has fairly shot up compared to previous years. How is that explained? I believe the redundancies were from the academy so employees may not be shown in these club accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 2 hours ago, HantsRam said: It's a good point. Doesn't Mel need to get the CFO moving........start taking the axe to some department budgets etc..... Players wage budget to start with. I wouldn’t pay some In washers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 http://priceoffootball.com/derby-county-2017-18-say-youll-be-there/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: http://priceoffootball.com/derby-county-2017-18-say-youll-be-there/ I thought we’d signed the Spice Girls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said: I thought we’d signed the Spice Girls! It’s a lengthy read but a very good analysis of our accounts from an expert in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 11 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: It’s a lengthy read but a very good analysis of our accounts from an expert in the field. It's a very limited analysis based on quite a bit of guesswork and this isn't made apparent. Also a few important things missed out and suggestions made, even when there is evidence to the contrary. Interested to know where the club have implied that the ground sale was done for FFP reasons? The official lines that I have seen are that MM wants to explore increasing income streams away from the football use of the stadium. Would also like to see their 'calculations' regarding our FFP loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Some slightly hair raising messages in there. How well have Leeds done? Much larger commercial income, lower player costs, lower salaries by some way and all achieved on a broadly level playing field to us. Some really obvious kpi's to set the execs.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Quote Derby went for broke in 2017/18 in trying to achieve promotion to the Premier League. To achieve this the club had to indulge in some eyebrow raising accounting transactions which appear to be at odds with the spirit, if not the letter, of P&S rules. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 12 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: It’s a lengthy read but a very good analysis of our accounts from an expert in the field. Its the author that ramblur had a go at on here when he dared to post. Quote Reading the SevCo 5112 accounts is more depressing as there was an operating loss, which represents revenue less day to day running costs, of £46.8 million. Which is the point i was making last year which also caused a flurry. @G STAR RAM is correct that the club haven't confirmed that the ground sake was an ffp get-out-of-gaol-free card, but a) it surely was, and b) the fact that it wasn't even mentioned at the forum is the reason why MM/SP have come across as economical with the truth. Don't blame the author of the article, because the club have been less than transparent. p.s. Why two holding companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, RamNut said: Its the author that ramblur had a go at on here when he dared to post. I also thought Ramblur pointed out that the following assumption was incorrect: "Experienced Rams’ fans may know that their club is unique in the way it treats amortisation though which has the effect of reducing the expense in the accounts in what is best known as ‘Melenomics’ and no other clubs in England use such an approach" 7 minutes ago, RamNut said: Which is the point i was making last year which also caused a flurry. @G STAR RAM is correct that the club haven't confirmed that the ground sake was an ffp get-out-of-gaol-free card, but a) it surely was, and b) the fact that it wasn't even mentioned at the forum is the reason why MM/SP have come across as economical with the truth. Don't blame the author of the article, because the club have been less than transparent. p.s. Why two holding companies? I guess the 'first' holding company also has the stadium underneath it, separate from the 'second' holding company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I also thought Ramblur pointed out that the following assumption was incorrect: "Experienced Rams’ fans may know that their club is unique in the way it treats amortisation though which has the effect of reducing the expense in the accounts in what is best known as ‘Melenomics’ and no other clubs in England use such an approach" there were a couple of things in that article that made me scratch my head and that was one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 43 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: It's a very limited analysis based on quite a bit of guesswork and this isn't made apparent. Also a few important things missed out and suggestions made, even when there is evidence to the contrary. Interested to know where the club have implied that the ground sale was done for FFP reasons? The official lines that I have seen are that MM wants to explore increasing income streams away from the football use of the stadium. Would also like to see their 'calculations' regarding our FFP loss. The calculation for the £53m P&S loss would be interesting. I've mentioned a few times how 15/16 losses of £14.7m resulted in a FFP loss of £9m and 14/15 losses of £10.1m resulted in FFP losses of £5.6m (both FFP/P&S figures in the £5-6m region lower than the stated financial losses). For the 17/18 season, we'd need to look at the figures for 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18. We know 15/16 was £9m which means he's calculated a P&S loss of £44m in the following two years. Based on £5m being exempt, 16/17 £7.9m losses which would equate to a P&S loss of £2.9m, whereas 17/18 £14.7m profit would be a P&S loss of c£19.7m. Taking the 3 year total to just under a £32m loss 15/16: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2017/04/derby-countys-201516-financial-results-announced 16/17: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2018/03/derby-county-announces-financial-results-for-201617-season 17/18: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2019/04/derby-county-reveal-201718-financial-results "Derby spent £15 million on new signings in 2017/18 on Lawrence, Wisdom, Huddlestone and Jerome and had sales of £4.3 million mainly in relation to Cyrus Christie. The sales of Will Hughes and Tom Ince which took place in the summer of 2017 were included in the accounts for the year ended 30 June 2017." Where do these figures come from, as the Sevco 5112 accounts state a loss of £3.7m on player registrations. (Am I missing something?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: The calculation for the £53m P&S loss would be interesting. I've mentioned a few times how 15/16 losses of £14.7m resulted in a FFP loss of £9m and 14/15 losses of £10.1m resulted in FFP losses of £5.6m (both FFP/P&S figures in the £5-6m region lower than the stated financial losses). For the 17/18 season, we'd need to look at the figures for 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18. We know 15/16 was £9m which means he's calculated a P&S loss of £44m in the following two years. Based on £5m being exempt, 16/17 £7.9m losses which would equate to a P&S loss of £2.9m, whereas 17/18 £14.7m profit would be a P&S loss of c£19.7m. Taking the 3 year total to just under a £32m loss 15/16: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2017/04/derby-countys-201516-financial-results-announced 16/17: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2018/03/derby-county-announces-financial-results-for-201617-season 17/18: https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2019/04/derby-county-reveal-201718-financial-results "Derby spent £15 million on new signings in 2017/18 on Lawrence, Wisdom, Huddlestone and Jerome and had sales of £4.3 million mainly in relation to Cyrus Christie. The sales of Will Hughes and Tom Ince which took place in the summer of 2017 were included in the accounts for the year ended 30 June 2017." Where do these figures come from, as the Sevco 5112 accounts state a loss of £3.7m on player registrations. (Am I missing something?) Quick off the top of my head thoughts without looking at the accounts. Academy now seems to be a separate entity so adjustments may not be required to the club accounts to get to the FFP figure. Sevco 16/17 accounts were 10 months so may not include one transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Crystal Palace figures, not a land of milk and honey apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Pop when they drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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