17/18 Financial Results

[Day]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

maybe they were still waiting on formal EFL approval?

I don’t know. But you’re wasting your time if you stop to consider any other possibility than the club have lied, been dishonest or disingenuous.

Despite posting about the Supporters Meeting at the end of the month several times, not one has taken the opportunity to submit a question to the club which if supported will be put to them.

Not one.

I can understand the frustration, but it can also be frustrating reading posts which have either not listened to the forum back, have no intention of watching, accept they may have misheard whilst demanding maximum transparency from the club.

If I was the club reading this I would think what is the point, they don’t listen, they don’t trust us, they won’t even accept that some details may need to remain private for several reasons.

Attack, attack, attack. (We could do with a few of you on the pitch tomorrow!)

If anything I think the club have been too transparent at times and this has led to the need to know every little detail, I don’t recall the club previously every 3 months meeting with fans holding open Q&A’s, I don’t recall them meeting with Supporters Groups, inviting fans from forums to the training ground. I don’t see many other clubs doing this either.

Don’t even realise how lucky we are.

Years ago if we sold the stadium the first we would know about it would be on the front page of the Telegraph or Radio Derby news bulletin, now we expect the lease contract to be read out to a couple hundred fans prior to an official announcement on the club site. 

Don’t get me wrong I would also be interested to know what the rent is, how many years is the lease for, do we have a buy back option or first refusal, is there clauses that get triggered on promotion, but I realise that this level of information may need to remain private. I get that, accept it and have trust in our owner which some have chosen not to have.

Out if interest has any other club that lease their ground openly disclosed the details of the contract? Or does the payment terms simply come out through fans/media looking at the submitted accounts on Companies House?

Either way there will be another fans forum in 3 months, where we will have the same fans proudly puffing their chests out announcing (several times) they are above the PR, you can’t brainwash me, refuse tickets, not ask questions, and then sit here for days after complaining about what does or doesn’t come out.

If I sound a bit arsey I’m not, never been happier, the sun is shining, we have a game tomorrow, Lampard is at the wheel and Mason Mount is back in the team. It’s just we go through the same cycle and it’s almost laughable at this stage now. I’m sure I’ll get a bit of stick for this one, I can even predict who will be whacking me, but there you go. 

I need to go and get the decking jet washed for the weekend as it needs staining now, so apologies if I’m not on to go round in circles rehashing what has already been said ad nauseam. 

[NottsRam77]

2 hours ago, Inglorius said:

Am disappointed but not surprised that more posters haven't commented on the post by @i-Ram 

Morris is a financial whizz by applying an accounting ruse to sell our ground and avoid a loss of £25 million and he should be applauded for that 

Let's go over that figure again as it deserves a second inspection - £25 million loss. That's some number. Hardly what you'd expect to be seeing from an owner whose meant to be the custodian of the club's finances but find's it easier to slopy shoulder the blame onto staff no longer working in the club. 

I'd call that gross financial mis management or fiduciary negligence to paraphrase the same person. Yet we are seeing the accolades and plaudits being handed out on here for such an amazing masterstroke.

I'm not even going to try and be an apologist, that's rank mismanagement by the owner and he deserves to be called out on the matter and he deserves all the criticism coming his way. The fact that this is next to nothing is even more amazing given that he has got the club into a huge financial hole that he has had to circumnavigate by applying an accounting trick.

Very poor all round and needs to be viewed as such.

Your right in your post and I largely agree 

mel has made plenty of mistakes, including mis management of the clubs finances, as he said at the fans forum ... we’ve made mistakes 

but let’s have it right, he’s stepped up and put his hand in his pocket to address it and not let us suffer for it 

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, David said:

I don’t know. But you’re wasting your time if you stop to consider any other possibility than the club have lied, been dishonest or disingenuous.

Despite posting about the Supporters Meeting at the end of the month several times, not one has taken the opportunity to submit a question to the club which if supported will be put to them.

Not one.

I can understand the frustration, but it can also be frustrating reading posts which have either not listened to the forum back, have no intention of watching, accept they may have misheard whilst demanding maximum transparency from the club.

If I was the club reading this I would think what is the point, they don’t listen, they don’t trust us, they won’t even accept that some details may need to remain private for several reasons.

Attack, attack, attack. (We could do with a few of you on the pitch tomorrow!)

If anything I think the club have been too transparent at times and this has led to the need to know every little detail, I don’t recall the club previously every 3 months meeting with fans holding open Q&A’s, I don’t recall them meeting with Supporters Groups, inviting fans from forums to the training ground. I don’t see many other clubs doing this either.

Don’t even realise how lucky we are.

Years ago if we sold the stadium the first we would know about it would be on the front page of the Telegraph or Radio Derby news bulletin, now we expect the lease contract to be read out to a couple hundred fans prior to an official announcement on the club site. 

Don’t get me wrong I would also be interested to know what the rent is, how many years is the lease for, do we have a buy back option or first refusal, is there clauses that get triggered on promotion, but I realise that this level of information may need to remain private. I get that, accept it and have trust in our owner which some have chosen not to have.

Out if interest has any other club that lease their ground openly disclosed the details of the contract? Or does the payment terms simply come out through fans/media looking at the submitted accounts on Companies House?

Either way there will be another fans forum in 3 months, where we will have the same fans proudly puffing their chests out announcing (several times) they are above the PR, you can’t brainwash me, refuse tickets, not ask questions, and then sit here for days after complaining about what does or doesn’t come out.

If I sound a bit arsey I’m not, never been happier, the sun is shining, we have a game tomorrow, Lampard is at the wheel and Mason Mount is back in the team. It’s just we go through the same cycle and it’s almost laughable at this stage now. I’m sure I’ll get a bit of stick for this one, I can even predict who will be whacking me, but there you go. 

I need to go and get the decking jet washed for the weekend as it needs staining now, so apologies if I’m not on to go round in circles rehashing what has already been said ad nauseam. 

I fully agree with all that.  If you go to these types of meeting expecting full transparency, warts and all, well that's a bit naive.   It gets my goat when fellow fans are forever nipping at our club, this isn't the 3 amigos it is something somewhat better.  Not perfect but I am happy to go a long with this ride.

[Mazzaram]

2 hours ago, David said:

I don’t know. But you’re wasting your time if you stop to consider any other possibility than the club have lied, been dishonest or disingenuous.

Despite posting about the Supporters Meeting at the end of the month several times, not one has taken the opportunity to submit a question to the club which if supported will be put to them.

Not one.

I can understand the frustration, but it can also be frustrating reading posts which have either not listened to the forum back, have no intention of watching, accept they may have misheard whilst demanding maximum transparency from the club.

If I was the club reading this I would think what is the point, they don’t listen, they don’t trust us, they won’t even accept that some details may need to remain private for several reasons.

Attack, attack, attack. (We could do with a few of you on the pitch tomorrow!)

If anything I think the club have been too transparent at times and this has led to the need to know every little detail, I don’t recall the club previously every 3 months meeting with fans holding open Q&A’s, I don’t recall them meeting with Supporters Groups, inviting fans from forums to the training ground. I don’t see many other clubs doing this either.

Don’t even realise how lucky we are.

Years ago if we sold the stadium the first we would know about it would be on the front page of the Telegraph or Radio Derby news bulletin, now we expect the lease contract to be read out to a couple hundred fans prior to an official announcement on the club site. 

Don’t get me wrong I would also be interested to know what the rent is, how many years is the lease for, do we have a buy back option or first refusal, is there clauses that get triggered on promotion, but I realise that this level of information may need to remain private. I get that, accept it and have trust in our owner which some have chosen not to have.

Out if interest has any other club that lease their ground openly disclosed the details of the contract? Or does the payment terms simply come out through fans/media looking at the submitted accounts on Companies House?

Either way there will be another fans forum in 3 months, where we will have the same fans proudly puffing their chests out announcing (several times) they are above the PR, you can’t brainwash me, refuse tickets, not ask questions, and then sit here for days after complaining about what does or doesn’t come out.

If I sound a bit arsey I’m not, never been happier, the sun is shining, we have a game tomorrow, Lampard is at the wheel and Mason Mount is back in the team. It’s just we go through the same cycle and it’s almost laughable at this stage now. I’m sure I’ll get a bit of stick for this one, I can even predict who will be whacking me, but there you go. 

I need to go and get the decking jet washed for the weekend as it needs staining now, so apologies if I’m not on to go round in circles rehashing what has already been said ad nauseam. 

Absolutely spot on @David. As far as I am concerned, THE definitive post on this thread. Debate (if ever there was one) over. Move on.

[curb]

17 hours ago, AdamRam said:

We have sold the ground to another entity, we will have to pay rent of which will be reduced from our available spend....remind me again, applauding for what ?

What if someone comes in and buys the club and moves the Stadium into another company, it seems quite easy to do, so what's stopping someone doing that?

 

Ah yes, MM owns the stadium, well done Mel ?

[ram59]

 I play walking football down here in sunny Birmingham. I didn't half get some stick last night from the bluenoses for the way we have avoided ffp, quite amusing really. 

Ffp is basically flawed though, compare ourselves with another team who may play in red. They rent their ground and don't have many assets other than the playing staff, but are allowed to lose £39m over the next 3 years. 

After the sale of our ground and clearing our loss for the season, we also rent our ground, but in addition to our paying staff we also have £55m in the bank, but we can not spend that much over the next 3 years, even though it wouldn't send us overdrawn at the bank. 

So ffp would allow one club to be overdrawn to the tune of £39m and prevent out club from having less than £16m in credit. It doesn't seem right. 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, curb said:

What if someone comes in and buys the club and moves the Stadium into another company, it seems quite easy to do, so what's stopping someone doing that?

 

Ah yes, MM owns the stadium, well done Mel ?

What happens if MM got ran over by a bus tomorrow and his estate decided they wanted to sell of the ground to pay his inheritance tax bill?

[Spanish]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What happens if MM got ran over by a bus tomorrow and his estate decided they wanted to sell of the ground to pay his inheritance tax bill?

bump

On 02/04/2019 at 14:39, Spanish said:

 

I get what both of you are saying but whilst this looks great today it's not necessarily a good thing.  If Mel 'goes' and his executors look to realise his assets they may sell to someone like SISU.  However, I would anticipate that this is something he has considered and his Will deals with it more defensively

 

[curb]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What happens if MM got ran over by a bus tomorrow and his estate decided they wanted to sell of the ground to pay his inheritance tax bill?

What would have stopped them doing that anyway?

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, curb said:

What if someone comes in and buys the club and moves the Stadium into another company, it seems quite easy to do, so what's stopping someone doing that?

 

Ah yes, MM owns the stadium, well done Mel ?

We are talking about what has happened not what may happen. You posted that we hadn’t sold the ground, which is incorrect. ?

 

[richinspain]

5 hours ago, Spanish said:

I think it is a bit risky to tell them to duck off, there is usually an alternative route to get around issues whilst avoiding direct confrontation.  

You've been on this forum since 2011, yet you still think that you can get around issues whilst avoiding direct confrontation? ?

[Spanish]

Just now, richinspain said:

You've been on this forum since 2011, yet you still think that you can get around issues whilst avoiding direct confrontation? ?

I try my best my friend!

[richinspain]

3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I try my best my friend!

That'll be the laid back Andalus in you (leaves an easy opening for @Boycie).

[Spanish]

15 minutes ago, richinspain said:

That'll be the laid back Andalus in you (leaves an easy opening for @Boycie).

I have enough conflict at the border everyday and I certainly don't want to seek it out here

[curb]

51 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

We are talking about what has happened not what may happen. You posted that we hadn’t sold the ground, which is incorrect. ?

 

We haven’t sold the ground, we’ve moved it into a different company owned by the same person. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, curb said:

What would have stopped them doing that anyway?

I did think about that after typing it.

I imagine the board of directors of DCFC would have to ratify any such deal?

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I did think about that after typing it.

I imagine the board of directors of DCFC would have to ratify any such deal?

the executors could only look to sell the ownership of the club and the directors would have little say.  PP being held by a separate company is a bit more at risk than if it was part of DCFC which it isn't despite what some may say.  It's all a bit moot though given we don't know what is in Mel's Will.  If he was to become bankrupt well that's a different matter but again not something worthy of consideration IMO

[toddy]

Not too sure why most are discussing what might be in Mel's Will ?

All that really matters is we will not go into FFP, Mel has bought Pride Park from himself, he's a fan and one that has put his money where his mouth is.

Maybe this thread needs to be locked!

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, toddy said:

Not too sure why most are discussing what might be in Mel's Will ?

All that really matters is we will not go into FFP, Mel has bought Pride Park from himself, he's a fan and one that has put his money where his mouth is.

Maybe this thread needs to be locked!

Wasn't Lionel Pickering a fan too?

[AdamRam]

18 minutes ago, curb said:

We haven’t sold the ground, we’ve moved it into a different company owned by the same person. 

You saying the club statement is wrong ?

“The accounts show a profit of £14.6m, in comparison to a loss of £7.9m in the previous year, largely due to the profit on the sale and lease back of Pride Park Stadium and profit on player registrations.

In the financial year, Pride Park Stadium was sold to a separate company owned by Executive Chairman Mel Morris CBE.”