The Politics Thread 2019

[Carl Sagan]

41 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I'll be nervously watching the pound value against the Euro tomorrow - any huge crash would be like a kick in the boys to me! Let's hope for a good result and a sharp increase in the value of the £! 

Counting doesn't begin until Sunday night once all the EU countries have finished voting. Though tomorrow May may have to announce she's leaving, but presumably the markets have already factored that in.

It shows how selfish she's become that her main motivation at the moment is not to resign until Wednesday because then she can say she outlasted Gordon Brown and didn't have the shortest premiership in recent history. It'll be funny and fitting if Tory MPs wake up to such terrible results on Monday morning that she's marched out of Downing St one day before Brown's record.

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, StivePesley said:

Don't feel bad mate - I watched it too a while ago and thought much the same thing. He has some fair basic premise, if he didn't then he wouldn't have got anywhere at all. It's just that his tactics and his motivations are all so so wrong. If he stuck to platforms like that it would be much better - it's hard to equate that with watching him and his thugs intimidating asian youths, threatening journalists by turning up at their house in the middle of the night and spouting straight-up inflammatory lies in the street. Do your research and you'll see

It's ok telling people to do their research and they will see. Have you fully done your research? If so, you will know that you are only telling half a story. 

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

OK, so here goes.

I'm 50 minutes in to Robinson's Oxford Union speech, I went it to it with an open mind. I've been clear I hate the bloke and I'm still not ready to change that BUT.

If anyone watches the talk and has an interested bone in their body, it's tough to ignore what he says and how he presents it.

I feel a little bit sick for saying that but as I've said often, I'm honest good and bad.

What I've got to do now is research what he's said and what he's shown and also try to research HIS steps before and after, it's his speech so he's planned and prepared it specifically to show what he wanted to show.

ducking hell. I'm genuinely angry at myself for having even the slightest doubt that I am wrong about this guy being a total Bamford.

I might need a couple of days before I post on this thread again. I'm certainly not about to convert to the EDL but I'm going to do some reading and some watching..

Don't be angry with me lads, I might come back and have proved I was right.

Worrying.

Fair play Ronnie. 

If you detatch the person from the speech it's very hard to ignore what is being said.

The thing is both Robinson and Farage deliver excellent speeches so it is hard to know how much of what they say is true! Certainly with Farage you can tell that a lot of it is well rehearsed slogans. 

Personally it doesn't matter what people think of Robinson, I don't know the guy and don't think he comes across well. I'm more interested in people's views on what he has to say and on the whole I'm yet to see anyone come up with convincing counter arguments. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Personally it doesn't matter what people think of Robinson, I don't know the guy and don't think he comes across well. I'm more interested in people's views on what he has to say and on the whole I'm yet to see anyone come up with convincing counter arguments. 

Well you can't have been looking very hard - the internet is rich with people who have countered his arguments. At best they get shouted down and at worst he doxes them and turns up on their doorstep in the middle of the night, terrorising them and their familes.

 

[McRamFan]

£96k a year to do nothing....Meet Tommy

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/05/24/reporter-grilled-tommy-robinson-camera-wasnt-happy-bunny/

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Well you can't have been looking very hard - the internet is rich with people who have countered his arguments. At best they get shouted down and at worst he doxes them and turns up on their doorstep in the middle of the night, terrorising them and their familes.

 

No, I've looked very hard. The main arguments seem to be 'racist', 'bigot', 'white supremacist' and 'would you say the same thing if it was Christians doing it'.

Regarding turning up at people's houses in the middle of the night can we have some examples please?

And please don't tell me you're considering using Mike Stuchbery.

[MK]

May's gone June 7th. Bojo next? The list of possible candidates doesn't inspire confidence 

[maxjam]

52 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Well you can't have been looking very hard - the internet is rich with people who have countered his arguments. At best they get shouted down and at worst he doxes them and turns up on their doorstep in the middle of the night, terrorising them and their familes.

That was in response to half a dozen people turning up at his house a, publicizing his home address (despite the fact he's subject to several Osman warnings) and intimidating his wife and kids whilst trying to personally serve him a legal letter knowing full well that he was abroad at the time. 

In retaliation Tommy Robinson filmed himself knocking on Mike Stuchbery's door alone at stupid o'clock.  I don't condone what Tommy did - if you want to be seen as a victim you can't then play the aggressor, but things are never black or white and there is usually some other context.

Anyway, I don't want to keep talking about Tommy Robinson, whilst I believe he is genuine he is also a flawed character.  If you don't think that he has been wilfully defamed by the media though you haven't looked hard enough.

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, MK said:

May's gone June 7th. Bojo next? The list of possible candidates doesn't inspire confidence 

No Frank Lampard? Or does that depend on Monday ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

Breaking News is that Theresa May has announced she is going to resign on 7th June.

Curious choice of words - surely effectively she has already resigned and is working out her 2 weeks notice?

 

[McRamFan]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Anyway, I don't want to keep talking about Tommy Robinson, whilst I believe he is genuine he is also a flawed character.  If you don't think that he has been wilfully defamed by the media though you haven't looked hard enough.

I don't think he has, I think he manipulates the agenda, until he gets found short.  But hey, he has made millions by being an out and out racist, and millions being, less of a racist and just an out and out Islamophobic.

[Van der MoodHoover]

10 minutes ago, MK said:

May's gone June 7th. Bojo next? The list of possible candidates doesn't inspire confidence 

So the Electoral Commission suggests the 2017 electorate was 46.8m

The PM will be elected on a straightforward majority of the Conservative membership reported as 124,000 in March 2018.

You'd think after the EU referendum the Conservatives would steer clear of simple majorities...…...but either way it ain't exactly much of a mandate and as was pointed out last night no Newsnight, the parliamentary numbers are unchanged. So therefore, what price an early General Election as the only way to gamble on getting some parliamentary numbers that can get something through.

Dominic Grieve clearly not a Boris fan and Tom Tugendhat seems to be a Gove-ite, so sit back and watch the MPs all fall out at trying to pick 2 from that lot.

FWIW the one I have listened to and thought to be most consistently thoughtful and reasonable is Rory Stewart. 

[SSD]

...... So what difference will this make? Nothing.

[maxjam]

58 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

£96k a year to do nothing....Meet Tommy

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/05/24/reporter-grilled-tommy-robinson-camera-wasnt-happy-bunny/

Okay the obvious concern there is that Tommy is cut off mid-sentence.  Its like me saying "I support Tommy Robinson [SNIP] but I don't agree with..."

And lets face it, MEPs don't do the same thing as local councils, its more of a broader scale;

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/european-elections/what_do_they_do.html

unless it comes to covering up their expenses;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/25/mep-expenses-eu-court-ruling

[MK]

2 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

...... So what difference will this make? Nothing.

Just another pointless distraction from real issues. Everything since 2016 has been a waste of time and money

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

I don't think he has, I think he manipulates the agenda, until he gets found short.  But hey, he has made millions by being an out and out racist, and millions being, less of a racist and just an out and out Islamophobic.

Ok let's engage in debate, what does he do that is racist? 

[eddie]

8 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

...... So what difference will this make? Nothing.

I don't know so much - it's a historic moment really, but symbolic all the same. After all, in the forthcoming weeks, the members of the Conservative Party will be voting for the last Tory prime minister ever.

[maxjam]

9 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

I don't think he has, I think he manipulates the agenda, until he gets found short.  But hey, he has made millions by being an out and out racist, and millions being, less of a racist and just an out and out Islamophobic.

I think you're wrong but its cool to disagree ?

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion about him on here, people will either take the time to look into him more deeply or they won't and if its not all been removed from the internet now, what you find may or may not change your opinion about him.  Most people I imagine however simply don't care either way and tbh I'm fed up of talking about him myself so I'm leaving it here.

[Uptherams]

Finally!

[McRamFan]

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I think you're wrong but its cool to disagree ?

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion about him on here, people will either take the time to look into him more deeply or they won't and if its not all been removed from the internet now, what you find may or may not change your opinion about him.  Most people I imagine however simply don't care either way and tbh I'm fed up of talking about him myself so I'm leaving it here.

Plenty here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)

Make your own mind up about this one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-video-drugs-cocaine-islam-far-right-israel-palestine-edl-a8776991.html

or

https://resistinghate.org/tommy-robinson-and-his-hate-tweets/