Carl Sagan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 A weight has lifted off the country with the end of Theresa May's hopeless leadership. It's difficult not to feel sympathy when someone chokes up live on national telly, but this sympathy will quickly and rightly evaporate. She has squandered the three years since the referendum and left her successor in a very difficult position. Do they: begin again from scratch saying we will not separate divorce from final relationship? offer the EU27 changes to her withdrawal agreement (eg remove the Irish backstop and reduce the divorce bill), saying we'll accept it on amended terms as a poor divorce to be able to move on? cut the gordian knot, get out on a no deal basis and then do the negotiations from there? The first option would have been preferable a year ago but I think it's too late now so we should take option three and just leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 There will be a general election by November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: cut the gordian knot, get out on a no deal basis and then do the negotiations from there? The first option would have been preferable a year ago but I think it's too late now so we should take option three and just leave. Personally I agree but we're in an impossible situation of our own making. IMHO only a Brexit Party majority government can leave the EU with no deal and get away with it - if they get voted in and follow through on the referendum result at least democracy will have seen to be served. Anything else and you've got half the country angry at the other half and crying foul with very good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 The only way the country could ever be put back together would be for us to leave the EU with no deal, for it to be an utter disaster lasting a decade or more and then for us to be forced to re-apply for membership - which would cause all the Brexiteers' heads to explode. Alternatively, for us to leave with no deal and for it to be a brilliant success which of course would cause all the Remainers' heads to explode. So 50:50 - just like playing the National Lottery. Buy a ticket, you either win or you lose. 50:50. /I actually managed to keep a straight face while typing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: A weight has lifted off the country with the end of Theresa May's hopeless leadership. It's difficult not to feel sympathy when someone chokes up live on national telly, but this sympathy will quickly and rightly evaporate. She has squandered the three years since the referendum and left her successor in a very difficult position. Do they: begin again from scratch saying we will not separate divorce from final relationship? offer the EU27 changes to her withdrawal agreement (eg remove the Irish backstop and reduce the divorce bill), saying we'll accept it on amended terms as a poor divorce to be able to move on? cut the gordian knot, get out on a no deal basis and then do the negotiations from there? The first option would have been preferable a year ago but I think it's too late now so we should take option three and just leave. You can feel no sympathy at all when someone is so stupid, and frankly disrespectful of us all, to stand there and say 'compromise is not a dirty word'. It's like having to sit and listen to a lecture on monogamy from Russell Brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, maxjam said: Personally I agree but we're in an impossible situation of our own making. IMHO only a Brexit Party majority government can leave the EU with no deal and get away with it - if they get voted in and follow through on the referendum result at least democracy will have seen to be served. Anything else and you've got half the country angry at the other half and crying foul with very good reason. Probably half the country (or even more) won't have voted - fed up with the incompetence of May but lacking any serious alternative. Having Boris Johnson as a clear favourite to take over as party leader just emphasises the dreadful political situation we are in - the worst in the 50+ years of my voting life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, MK said: May's gone June 7th. Bojo next? The list of possible candidates doesn't inspire confidence I'd love to see Jeremy Hunt win it. I have no clue where he stands or what he would "fight" for but it's just such an easy and fitting punchline to any comment about today's politicians isn't it? He such a Jeremy Hunt it's not true. Vote for Jezza and you never have to think of clever words like the one I heard last week, some young lad about 25 representing one of the leave parties said and I quote "the RE-MOANstream media" - before smirking at his own cleverness, the arrogant conceited little poo. Good job I wasn't there and hadn't just been to McDonalds* for a happy meal. Otherwise I'd be a hypocrite right now for sure. I saw the bloke who is the 33-1 shot and honestly thought it said Rod Stewart!! Now he'd have a great chance of winning but I don't wanna talk about it ? * other fast food outlets and unhappy meals are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennington Ram Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: You can feel no sympathy at all when someone is so stupid, and frankly disrespectful of us all, to stand there and say 'compromise is not a dirty word'. It's like having to sit and listen to a lecture on monogamy from Russell Brand. Feel absolutely no sympathy. She has been howlingly incompetent at everything she has put her hand to, revealing herself as someone utterly devoid of empathy, intelligence and personality. The list is endless and she really represents everything I have come to resent about this country over the last couple of years, making it a nastier place entirely. 1. It isn't my politics, but even those who want tighter immigration policies presumably were not asking for perverse, incomprehensible systems designed to randomly root out British Carribeans who had lived here for the entirety of their lives because they tried to do things like retire, draw pensions or get a job. People literally died because of it. Buried by the news, thousands of people even this very day were found to have been wrongly deported for false accusations of cheating. Incredible she brought up the kinder transport in her speech. If she had been in charge, she would have driven vans around their neighbourhoods telling them to go home, a d then designed a series of systems so arbitrary that they would be deported at random at any time after the war. 2. Triggered Article 50 without any kind of obvious plan, and set a bunch of completely imaginary "red lines" everyone had told her would be unacceptable to the EU, and then spent three years being told no in negotiating them. Again, even if you want Leave, she conspired to do it in the very stupidest way possible. Worst PM of my lifetime, and a bad person to boot. Anyway back to avoiding talking politics online, something I'd managed for a while until that idiot started her dreadful resignation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Doesn't matter which hard-line Brexiteer is elected by the 120,000 or so senile blue-rinser Thatcherites and retired army colonels living in Sevenoaks. It does not change the arithmetic that Parliament will not entertain the possibility of crashing out of the EU without a deal at the end of October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 pathetic that a load of tory party members essentially get to the choose the next government. take back control democratic deficit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said: Feel absolutely no sympathy. She has been howlingly incompetent at everything she has put her hand to, revealing herself as someone utterly devoid of empathy, intelligence and personality. The list is endless and she really represents everything I have come to resent about this country over the last couple of years, making it a nastier place entirely. 1. It isn't my politics, but even those who want tighter immigration policies presumably were not asking for perverse, incomprehensible systems designed to randomly root out British Carribeans who had lived here for the entirety of their lives because they tried to do things like retire, draw pensions or get a job. People literally died because of it. Buried by the news, thousands of people even this very day were found to have been wrongly deported for false accusations of cheating. Incredible she brought up the kinder transport in her speech. If she had been in charge, she would have driven vans around their neighbourhoods telling them to go home, a d then designed a series of systems so arbitrary that they would be deported at random at any time after the war. 2. Triggered Article 50 without any kind of obvious plan, and set a bunch of completely imaginary "red lines" everyone had told her would be unacceptable to the EU, and then spent three years being told no in negotiating them. Again, even if you want Leave, she conspired to do it in the very stupidest way possible. Worst PM of my lifetime, and a bad person to boot. Anyway back to avoiding talking politics online, something I'd managed for a while until that idiot started her dreadful resignation. I just read a transcript of said speech from the FT and was open mouthed at some of it...... "...the unique privilege of this office is to use this platform to give a voice to the voiceless, to fight the burning injustices that still scar our society. …...And that is why I set up the independent public enquiry into the tragedy at Grenfell Tower..." Trying to position herself in this way is absolutely unacceptable. All she has done, and ever done, is for the sake of her party. Who have now dumped her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, alexxxxx said: pathetic that a load of tory party members essentially get to the choose the next government. take back control democratic deficit Not quite. It's still a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". The Tories will still kowtow to the wishes of the ERG but in doing so, the majority of parliament will continue to thwart them at every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Probably half the country (or even more) won't have voted - fed up with the incompetence of May but lacking any serious alternative. Having Boris Johnson as a clear favourite to take over as party leader just emphasises the dreadful political situation we are in - the worst in the 50+ years of my voting life. Please God no!!!! We already have one political buffoon in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennington Ram Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, HantsRam said: I just read a transcript of said speech from the FT and was open mouthed at some of it...... "...the unique privilege of this office is to use this platform to give a voice to the voiceless, to fight the burning injustices that still scar our society. …...And that is why I set up the independent public enquiry into the tragedy at Grenfell Tower..." Trying to position herself in this way is absolutely unacceptable. All she has done, and ever done, is for the sake of her party. Who have now dumped her. That's the thing... the May List of Screw Ups never ends, is continually growing as we find out new things she messed up years after they happened. I'm never going to agree with everyone politically but I hope we all learn some lessons about the value of leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 So it's come down to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, HantsRam said: I just read a transcript of said speech from the FT and was open mouthed at some of it...... "...the unique privilege of this office is to use this platform to give a voice to the voiceless, to fight the burning injustices that still scar our society. …...And that is why I set up the independent public enquiry into the tragedy at Grenfell Tower..." Trying to position herself in this way is absolutely unacceptable. All she has done, and ever done, is for the sake of her party. Who have now dumped her. And what is amazing is that she actually believes it. She is a mean and nasty person with nothing but self interest and intransigence flowing through her veins. Let's not forget that, before she became PM, she was responsible for this. What a horrible, horrible person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: And what is amazing is that she actually believes it. She is a mean and nasty person with nothing but self interest and intransigence flowing through her veins. Let's not forget that, before she became PM, she was responsible for this. What a horrible, horrible person. I'm being very careful here. Very careful. Then people wonder why on occasions the "minorities" get so pissed off with our racist and xenophobic rhetoric as well as us being pissed off at "theirs" It's why I wish somehow that bloke who I don't like could stop preaching violence. They piss us off, we get violent. They get pissed off and get violent We get pissed off that they get violent and get more violent back They get pissed off and extreme. We get more pissed off and our own extremists go after their extremists. meanwhile everyone who isn't pissed off is terrified and doesn't know who to blame. So both sides of the extremists call those people racists or snowflakes. The fact we get called racists make us angry at the group who called us racists. Division it's everywhere. It's got to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 55 minutes ago, alexxxxx said: pathetic that a load of tory party members essentially get to the choose the next government. take back control democratic deficit It's pathetic that they are afforded the opportunity to change their minds after a period of reflection? Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 New leader, tell EU we are leaving as per the referendum WTO rules, job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Whoever the next Tory leader is - this is still going nowhere. They elect a hard-brexiteer and they will never get No-Deal through parliament. Elect another remainer and they will fail just like May has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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