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The Politics Thread 2019


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3 minutes ago, Needless said:

I assume that's at me.

I'm not asking for anyone to be in prison for any crime related to or resembling the showdown from that Benny Hill tune about the milkman.

What you and maxjam said is that if the guy who egged Corbyn got 28 days then the guy who threw he milk shake should get the same punishment, I'll go back and check just in case I'm wrong and it was only maxjam who said that

Now you're saying the only guy who threw a series of punches shouldn't face jail for the worst act of violence of the 3,

Benny Hill tunes for Tommy incident and a gentle slap for the Corbyn incident, you're judging force without being on the end of any of those two violent attacks on Corbyn and on the Asian lad but 3 or 4 posts ago you said you consider throwing a milkshake an act of violence. 

Your short answer to my question as to whether you thought the levels of violence was the same was YES.

I'm not after getting in to a stupid or nasty argument but I'm genuinely confused by your measures of what is and what isn't violent.

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36 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Can I ask a direct question.

Which of his policies or views past or present is it you think are ok and worth folk (clever or stupid) getting behind.

If you say none then I'm not too sure what you're starting point of thinking parts of him are ok and he's not the issue.

The way he is portrayed in the media is shocking - the stuff he deserves is fair game, but other stuff has been entirely fabricated to deceive the public.  If you can't trust the media thats a huge concern as they have the ability to influence the opinions of millions.

Furthermore, not necessarily his policies or views but I am also concerned about the power and influence of social media and their ability to censor one side of the argument. TR has been almost entirely removed from social media but so to have far less controversial figures.

His views on Islam should be open to debate (not here cos its against forum rules).  I have personally spent a long time studying religions of the world and only one seems to have protected status.

Please don't confuse wanting to talk about the issues he is concerned about with 'getting behind him'.

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8 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Well the guy that milkshaked Faraged has since been charged with common assault and criminal damage, it will be interesting to see what punishment, if any, he receives.

As for punching back, thats just connecting with the electorate ?

 

Good. Hopefully it will deter other morons from attempting the same.

I don't agree with the Asian lad getting off with milking Tommy, just as long as Tommy is then also punished for common assault.

You can't accuse others of having double standards just 'cos it's Tommy and then not demand Tommy is punished just 'cos it's Tommy.

I'm still keen to hear which of his policies you think are acceptable for people to get behind.

I've not seen a reply to that from either, you GSTAR or maxjam, the 3 who consistently find reasons to say he's not such a bad lad after all and it's just cheap labels and easy accusations being thrown around.

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3 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I'm a bit torn on it tbh. Is he an army veteran of 22 years standing or a representative of a party headed up by a charlatan that many genuinely fear could be a greater negative influence to our society than any we have seen for many a year? Ultimately, the ballot box is where you make your statement but I am sorry to say that a pensioner pushing Brexit is about as archetypal as it gets and I can understand people getting so frustrated that they feel the need to act in whatever way they feel able to be heard. Sadly, and strangely, this gentleman fails to see that the Brexit Party do condone a society where those who are not able to contribute do not deserve it's support. The beast would eventually eat itself.

As for chucking shakes, as I said I get why they feel the need but I wouldn't propose it as some form of underground protest. It not only gives them more publicity than they deserve but also strangely trivialises what is a very important point - this lot are dangerous, much more dangerous than this rosette wearing cmapainger likely realises.

Wow.

I am totally speechless. (First time for everything I know)

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1 minute ago, ronnieronalde said:

I'm still keen to hear which of his policies you think are acceptable for people to get behind.

just replied, look up

Also for balance, here is the Corbyn egging... hardly a right hook to the jaw ala John Prescott!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/brexit-supporter-john-murphy-who-struck-jeremy-corbyn-over-head-with-egg-jailed-for-28-days-a4100326.html

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4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

How? I didn't mention you, or allude to even one of the references you cited. All I said, which seems to have animated you, was that pensioners voting for Brexit is a stereotype. It is, irrespective of whether I either agree with it or believe it to be fair in foundation. I'm utterly at a loss what it has to do with Emma Thompson attending a climate change protest or James Corden. Happy to hear you out, I just don't get the point you are trying to say I meant in my original post.

The point I'm making is far to much assumption is made regarding who voted for what and it's getting rather tired  .  I may as well dispel all the other leaver stereotypes I've read on here for the last week as I don't fit them .   As such, I thought it may be worth providing one of my own stereotypes -the latte slurping luvvie set- to even things at little.  Incidentally,  I also know other people who voted to remain who certainly don't fit that criteria.  Anyway Derby County have just been mentioned on The Chase . I'm off to find out why.

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2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The way he is portrayed in the media is shocking - the stuff he deserves is fair game, but other stuff has been entirely fabricated to deceive the public.  If you can't trust the media thats a huge concern as they have the ability to influence the opinions of millions.

Furthermore, not necessarily his policies or views but I am also concerned about the power and influence of social media and their ability to censor one side of the argument. TR has been almost entirely removed from social media but so to have far less controversial figures.

His views on Islam should be open to debate (not here cos its against forum rules).  I have personally spent a long time studying religions of the world and only one seems to have protected status.

Please don't confuse wanting to talk about the issues he is concerned about with 'getting behind him'.

o.k so which of the issues that he is concerned about do you think it's ok for other folk to get behind?

What do you mean by the only religion with protected status?

 

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2 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

I've been reading this thread intently.

Every time there is any criticism of Tommy someone (or some 3 or 4) somehow justify what he does and what he's done since he got into the public eye.

The guy has been pure scum since he aired his views. He's not changed and he won't change.

Apart from his name. I knew about the Yaxley Lennon thing but he’s had 5 names in total!

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2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

What you and maxjam said is that if the guy who egged Corbyn got 28 days then the guy who threw he milk shake should get the same punishment, I'll go back and check just in case I'm wrong and it was only maxjam who said that

Now you're saying the only guy who threw a series of punches shouldn't face jail for the worst act of violence of the 3,

Benny Hill tunes for Tommy incident and a gentle slap for the Corbyn incident, you're judging force without being on the end of any of those two violent attacks on Corbyn and on the Asian lad but 3 or 4 posts ago you said you consider throwing a milkshake an act of violence. 

Your short answer to my question as to whether you thought the levels of violence was the same was YES.

I'm not after getting in to a stupid or nasty argument but I'm genuinely confused by your measures of what is and what isn't violent.

I'll be honest Ronnie, you've lost me. I think we're at cross purposes. I never commented on the Robinson milkshake incident.

Now I look it seems to me he's being a manipulative and violent thug who coaxed a reaction out of the lad and then got stuck in knowing he was probably golden legally.

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Just now, Boycie said:

Who’s voting? I can’t really see the point, can someone explain why I ought to?

We coming out aren’t we?

I'm off now to cast my vote for the Lib Dems. It's got out of hand, and I think we need a second go round the issue knowing what we know now.

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4 minutes ago, Needless said:

I'll be honest Ronnie, you've lost me. I think we're at cross purposes. I never commented on the Robinson milkshake incident.

Now I look it seems to me he's being a manipulative and violent thug who coaxed a reaction out of the lad and then got stuck in knowing he was probably golden legally.

Fair enough, I think the two instances maybe got blurred by me adding the 3rd incident into it actually.

I don't condone milkshake throwing, I don't condone punches being thrown, I don't condone deliberate provocation by any side left, right or centre.

I'm glad you recognised Robinson was out of order. I don't see how he is golden legally though, he can't really claim self defence, Him and his buddies proper laid into the lad.

Prescott was out of order as well but at he least the fat fool only threw the one punch.

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10 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

o.k so which of the issues that he is concerned about do you think it's ok for other folk to get behind?

What do you mean by the only religion with protected status?

I've never urged anyone to get behind Tommy Robinson.  However I do believe he should be heard.

I have in the past compared him loosely to the IRA, real malicious killers of innocents.  We didn't resolve that crisis by deplatforming them and hoping they would go away we talked to them and resolved differences.  To my knowledge Tommy Robinson has never killed anyone, or even been locked up for racism for that matter but he does raise concerns that a lot of people (judging by his numbers) are also concerned about.  If we can talk to real terrorists I'm sure we're more than capable of talking about the issues concerning Tommy Robinson and his supporters.

I've briefly touched on religion but @David will start waving his ban hammer if we carry on.  If you don't know much about religion though I would thoroughly recommend researching it, its a facsintating subject

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1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said:

The reason he has so much traction is unfortunately as I've said often and loudly. The majority of us aren't clever, in fact the majority of us are thick as two short planks. I won't stick eddie's label on those folk but I would say anyone who vottes for him is either stupid or has racist tendencies. You simply couldn't vote for him otherwise. Knowing how he preaches and knowing how he's behaved in the past AND recently.

Think we are capable of having a friendly debate over this.

Where do you think racism comes into the equation when it comes to Tommy Robinson? 

The guy comes across extremely badly because he does not seem able to control his emotions but do you not think he makes any valid points that are worthy of debate? 

Shutting him down completely will only make things worse in my opinion.

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16 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Anyway Derby County have just been mentioned on The Chase . I'm off to find out why.

I'm actually more interested how the Rams ended up on The Chase, if you let me know that I think it would be of more benefit that a rehash of any thing to do with Brexit, Tommy Robinson, Enoch Powell or Jeremy Cobyn's jam collection.

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think we are capable of having a friendly debate over this.

Where do you think racism comes into the equation when it comes to Tommy Robinson? 

The guy comes across extremely badly because he does not seem able to control his emotions but do you not think he makes any valid points that are worthy of debate? 

Shutting him down completely will only make things worse in my opinion.

You know I like you, always have so I'm SURE we can have a friendly debate.

My first reaction is that he makes no valid points THAT I AGREE with but I can't speak for everyone else. All I can do is ask which of his views are agreeable and be surprised that others consider his views worthy of debate.

You should remember I was brought up by a black guy who if he'd lived long enough would probably have been kicked out as part of the windrush scandal and who if Willy Whitelaw had his way would have been deported in the late 70's.

I'm also a white british guy who was given fantastic opportunities and lifestyle my being able to move and work freely in Poland so I'd be a hypocrite to deny others freedom to move and work where the opportunities are.

Let me ask you for a favour pal. Give me a couple of hours, I'll get something to eat and I'll read up on Tommys latest views/opinions/ even policies if I can find them.

I'm basing my argument on the fact I've only ever seen or heard the negative in him.

If his views centre around Muslims or the Islamic race eventually taking over and destroying our culture or heritage or dare I say purity, then I'll be back on and I'll be clear that no I don't think those views are open for debate.

As a four year old kid I was told the blacks were taking over and we'd be a mixed race "dirty" country within 25 years.  As if a mixed race (and let's be honest here they didn't use such polite terms) person is somehow not as good as a white person. it was backward thinking 40 years ago and it would certainly be backward thinking now.

My own views are that other cultures and being an open border country have improved us, not set us back.

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1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

I'm actually more interested how the Rams ended up on The Chase, if you let me know that I think it would be of more benefit that a rehash of any thing to do with Brexit, Tommy Robinson, Enoch Powell or Jeremy Cobyn's jam collection.

More boring question than I hoped-  Which East Midlands team has a Ram for a crest .

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1 hour ago, Boycie said:

Who’s voting? I can’t really see the point, can someone explain why I ought to?

We coming out aren’t we?

I opened the postal voting paper last week, googled Annunziata, as she was the lead candidate, saw it translated as  Peasant Eviscerator in Latin, and threw the ballot paper in the bin.

Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

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59 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Let me ask you for a favour pal. Give me a couple of hours, I'll get something to eat and I'll read up on Tommys latest views/opinions/ even policies if I can find them.

I'm basing my argument on the fact I've only ever seen or heard the negative in him.

I applauded you for that alone.  Most people take whats spoon fed to them these days and never scratch beneath the surface.  To form a rounded opinion on anything you need to view things from multiple angles.

Anyway, re Tommy Robinson there was a video on youtube with him talking at the Oxford Union, its a few years old now start there to see where he's come from then try and find something more recent and reach your own conclusions - although tbh a lot of the more interesting stuff has been removed now so you just get the view mainstream media push.  

For example, there was a good interview with Jason Farrell (Sky News) who cut and edited the conversation and printed blatant lies on their website - key snippets from the interview are then linked to in BBC and ITV articles perpetuating the lie.  Fortunately TR secretly recorded the interview and uploaded it in its entirety.  You don't have to like what someone is saying, but to use a 'trusted' medium to blatantly lie should cause concern to everybody.

Finally, regarding free speech I just stumbled across this;

Watch from 20s to about the 6m mark.  Protecting free speech, promoting independent thought and limiting censorship are big deals to me, it seems by denying them its making us increasingly stupid as well!

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1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said:

You know I like you, always have so I'm SURE we can have a friendly debate.

Glad to hear it, I thought from an earlier post that you had misunderstood my position on this. I'm not much of a fan of TR but I think he has highlighted a lot of things that are genuine concerns for a lot of members of society who do not have their voice heard.

My first reaction is that he makes no valid points THAT I AGREE with but I can't speak for everyone else. All I can do is ask which of his views are agreeable and be surprised that others consider his views worthy of debate.

I agree that the issue of Islamic extremists needs to be thoroughly investigated. Unfortunately people see this as an attack on Muslims because they are unable to distinguish between Islam and Muslims.

I agree that questions need asking of the Islamic community as to what is being done to combat extremism.

I agree questions need to be asked into why multi culturalism is failing and literally whole communities are failing to integrate into society.

I agree that the grooming gangs need thoroughly investigating. The numbers are completely disproportionate and there must be a reason it is happening. We also need a full explanation as to why there was such a widespread cover up.

I agree that Sharia law has no place in our country.

I agree that people need to stop using the labels of 'racist', 'bigot' and 'right wing' without being able to back them up with evidence. The words are becoming diluted and losing meaning.

I agree the role that the taxpayer funded BBC is playing in everyday life needs reviewing. They are no longer an independent station and are quite clearly controlled from above. That's all fine as long as we don't have to pay for it.

I agree that the disparity in the treatment of right wing and left wing activists needs to be sorted.

I agree the censorship of anyone who has not been found guilty of a crime needs explaining. Once again the big corporations appear to be having strings pulled from above.

You should remember I was brought up by a black guy who if he'd lived long enough would probably have been kicked out as part of the windrush scandal and who if Willy Whitelaw had his way would have been deported in the late 70's.

I don't see the link. From what I can gather, TR has a lot of non white friends and followers.

I'm also a white british guy who was given fantastic opportunities and lifestyle my being able to move and work freely in Poland so I'd be a hypocrite to deny others freedom to move and work where the opportunities are.

Once again I'm not sure of the link here. It's only the most hardened right wingers who would campaign for no immigration and I can honestly say I've not heard anyone calling for this?

Let me ask you for a favour pal. Give me a couple of hours, I'll get something to eat and I'll read up on Tommys latest views/opinions/ even policies if I can find them.

I'm basing my argument on the fact I've only ever seen or heard the negative in him.

Does it not make you question why the main parties and their puppet masters are gunning for him so much? Surely the way to shut him down is to give him his platform and take his arguments to pieces? Is nobody capable of this? All I ever see is people using the labels above, completely unable to back it up with any factual evidence.

If his views centre around Muslims or the Islamic race eventually taking over and destroying our culture or heritage or dare I say purity, then I'll be back on and I'll be clear that no I don't think those views are open for debate.

I'm not aware of him saying anything like this but happy to be proven wrong.

As a four year old kid I was told the blacks were taking over and we'd be a mixed race "dirty" country within 25 years.  As if a mixed race (and let's be honest here they didn't use such polite terms) person is somehow not as good as a white person. it was backward thinking 40 years ago and it would certainly be backward thinking now.

I'm probably from the opposite end of the spectrum. Grew up in a predominantly racist family. But as I grew up my best mate was black and I went on to work in a predominantly Asian working environment. So I think I've seen both sides of the coin.

My own views are that other cultures and being an open border country have improved us, not set us back.

Mixed feelings on this. I don't think a sweeping statement can be made on whether immigration has been good or bad. For every NHS lifesaver there is probably also the jobless criminal so I could not say it has all been good.

 

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