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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It stands to reason that there is more support now for independence than there was in 2014.  Then it was independence vs remaining in the UK and the EU.  Now it would be Independence + Remaining in the EU vs Remaining in the UK.   That's a considerable change, and Scotland voted to remain in the Brexit referendum. 

All the issues that you present as inhibiting a vote for independence now, were also present in the 2014 and they still got 45%.  Now there is the added incentive that by voting to leave they UK they can remain in the EU.  I think it's a mistake to believe that the SNP will just go away until, that is, they achieve their goal. 

The latest opinion polls in Scotland dont seem to suggest a change in views.

 

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Angry Ram

Angry Ram

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It stands to reason that there is more support now for independence than there was in 2014.  Then it was independence vs remaining in the UK and the EU.  Now it would be Independence + Remaining in the EU vs Remaining in the UK.   That's a considerable change, and Scotland voted to remain in the Brexit referendum. 

All the issues that you present as inhibiting a vote for independence now, were also present in the 2014 and they still got 45%.  Now there is the added incentive that by voting to leave they UK they can remain in the EU.  I think it's a mistake to believe that the SNP will just go away until, that is, they achieve their goal. 

And then the reality of independence kicks in. 

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GB SPORTS

GB SPORTS

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Highgate said:

There is a logic to that from the Tory point of view.   But if that's the case then you believe the Tory leadership is being disingenuous in it's stated position of trying to preserve the Union?

I think at present the Leadership are towing (toeing?) the party line and maybe that's their belief, but I am not sure that the next gen tory coming through sees it as so necessary to have a unionist mantle to their policies.

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Gee SCREAMER !!

Gee SCREAMER !!

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It stands to reason that there is more support now for independence than there was in 2014.  Then it was independence vs remaining in the UK and the EU.  Now it would be Independence + Remaining in the EU vs Remaining in the UK.   That's a considerable change, and Scotland voted to remain in the Brexit referendum. 

All the issues that you present as inhibiting a vote for independence now, were also present in the 2014 and they still got 45%.  Now there is the added incentive that by voting to leave they UK they can remain in the EU.  I think it's a mistake to believe that the SNP will just go away until, that is, they achieve their goal. 

You may have to educate me here .

I assumed that Scotland would have been aware during the last independence referendum that a vote on leaving the EU was coming around .  Therefore this would have been a consideration at the time.  In which case you can't have your cake and all that . Choice made really .

If for some reason this wasn't the case . And the possibility wasn't on the table in any way, they may have a better case for another referendum .  My recollection is that the possibility of leaving was there at the time.

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted

You know what i reckon jeremy corbyn is doing the right thing staying on. Labour are going through a finger pointing blame process,  get it out the way and let the new leader move things forward in a positive way.

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Gee SCREAMER !!

Gee SCREAMER !!

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, maxjam said:

And they still don't get why a lot of the working classes voted for Brexit...

EXPq7Dqe.png

This constant tirade of celebrity crap is another vote swinger.

John Hannahs latest interlude.

This whole Brexit cluster****is really about 1 thing. Immigration ! Like it or not turns out we’re a country of racists and Brexit/EU scepticism is the cover. It’s all about English nationalism . Shameful!

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maxjam

maxjam

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

This constant tirade of celebrity crap is another vote swinger.

John Hannahs latest interlude.

This whole Brexit cluster****is really about 1 thing. Immigration ! Like it or not turns out we’re a country of racists and Brexit/EU scepticism is the cover. It’s all about English nationalism . Shameful!

Yup, maybe work with the working class, not against them. 

If middle class opinion writers, celebrities and Labour hierrachy etc continue to lay the blame of all societies ills at the feet of the working class, people they genuinely have no association with or respect for anymore then don't be surprised if they don't vote you.   

They have become so detached from the people they were supposed to represent that the working classes have now repeatedly voted against their best interests in a desperate attempt at getting their voices heard. 

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Norman

Norman

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yup, maybe work with the working class, not against them. 

If middle class opinion writers, celebrities and Labour hierrachy etc continue to lay the blame of all societies ills at the feet of the working class, people they genuinely have no association with or respect for anymore then don't be surprised if they don't vote you.   

They have become so detached from the people they were supposed to represent that the working classes have now repeatedly voted against their best interests in a desperate attempt at getting their voices heard. 

Yup, and calling us selfish, racist and stupid..... Again. It's almost like they never listen to us. Don't tell us how to think. Or how to vote. Just listen to us and our concerns and debate it fairly. 

I also hate the fact that they think we have voted to kick ourselves in the balls/fanny. 

Did they not know that the average working class person listening to their arguments and how badly costed their manifesto was horrifying? The likes of failures like Abbott and Mcdonell being in charge of the Home Office and the public purse, and the fact the Leader had no leadership skills or opinions on Brexit made it far safer for us working class people to vote Conservative? 

We aren't kicking ourselves in the balls. Labour activists are. 

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Highgate

Highgate

Posted
Posted
Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

You may have to educate me here .

I assumed that Scotland would have been aware during the last independence referendum that a vote on leaving the EU was coming around .  Therefore this would have been a consideration at the time.  In which case you can't have your cake and all that . Choice made really .

If for some reason this wasn't the case . And the possibility wasn't on the table in any way, they may have a better case for another referendum .  My recollection is that the possibility of leaving was there at the time.

It was a possibility then, but did many people really think Brexit was going to happen at the time? 

Certainly not the Tory leadership who, it seems, were simply using the referendum on EU membership as a tool to win back votes from UKIP.

Now Brexit is going to happen, it's a new reality for everyone.  I can't see why another Scottish independence referendum isn't justified under the new circumstances. 

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