GboroRam Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Also the question was what would the EU look like in 30 years? I bet its on the brink of collapse still, like it has been for the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: No wars in 35 years. What about Yugoslavia? They weren't in the EU. Yes but they are still in the continent of Europe. So, EU members have avoided war for 35 years. Europe has not. We are moving from the first group to being just the second. Have I missed anything? Yes, this was the original assertion by @SchtivePesley "Yet an unprecedented 30 years with no wars between European countries?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 10 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: I think you've perhaps taken a slight leap of faith here that the BBC Reality Check is presenting the full facts They even admit at the start "It's not obvious which taxes he's referring to and Labour has not yet given more details - but let's look at a few possibilities..." And then go on to largely ignore the taxes that have been slashed for the benefit of the richest, but spends a lot of time trying to illustrate a scenario where is is wrong The article focuses on the richest 10% - but in actual fact the IFS is clear that the number of people in the top tax bracket (earning over £150k - and for who income tax was cut from 50% to 45%) is closer to the top 1% - so why not show that in the charts BBC? To include the other 9% for whom the tax brackets have not changed is bound to show a much more static picture https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14303 So apart from that data fudge, they also ignore the cut in Capital Gains Tax from 28% to 18%. Not something that most of us have to worry about - but the richest people? Those who are living of investment income? Definitely a decent tax cut for them Then you have the "Entrepreneur Relief" where they extended the allowance from £1m to £20m https://www.steve-howell.com/tax-breaks-need-to-be-seen-to-deliver-measurable-economic-benefits/ They do acknowledge that "Clearly, the changes to inheritance tax have been better for richer people" - but that's a single line which backs up the Labour stance, yet doesn't seem to fit the thrust of the rest of the "reality check" Corporation Tax has been cut from 28% to 17%. Yes, hard to assess the impact on individuals, but it's all linked - lower Corp Tax means companies can pay bigger dividends, which the richest people then payer less Capital Gains Tax on (see above) Obviously I'm only posting this because I know you don't like factual incorrectness! Interesting facts here if anyone is genuinely interested in tax havens, tax dodging and the effect they have on others. https://www.taxjustice.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 I have no answer for this but sure someone will....but how much do these 'tax dodgers' contribute to the economy via other taxes such as VAT and PAYE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Angry Ram said: So we don’t know what Brexit looks like and we don’t know what the EU looks like.. Takes some steam out of the remain argument.. Just goes to show, nobody can tell the future, unless of course you are a remainer who quotes facts about it.. Russia was a joke by the way.. Presently we know what the EU looks like and what advantages we gain from being a member of the EU. That's why I voted to stay in the EU. As I don't need a crystal ball to know we are presently better off economically, than we would be if we were to trade under current WTO rules. I'll carry on hoping we never leave. As a remainer I knew what to expect for at least the coming year, well the brexit campaigners claim it takes the EU that long to make a decision, so everything stays the same until they do. So yes as a reminder I could probably claim to see into the future. As for brexit, since the referendum nobody including our brexiteering government knows what is happening from one day to the next, never mind whats happening for the next twelve months. I still wonder what sort of leave many leave voters thought they were voting for. As leading brexiteers in the last government couldn't agree to what sort of brexit they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 10 hours ago, GboroRam said: No wars in 35 years. What about Yugoslavia? They weren't in the EU. Yes but they are still in the continent of Europe. So, EU members have avoided war for 35 years. Europe has not. We are moving from the first group to being just the second. Have I missed anything? Yes you did, go back further. We were discussing what the EU looks like in 30 years.. Croatia etc were not in the EU but were in Europe.. It was about EU expansion and not stable countries joining. Now they are in the EU. You jumped in half cocked again, @G STAR RAM got it first off and beat me to the Balkans comment. That must be because he reads posts in full and does not get too excited after the first line. Just a thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 7 hours ago, ramit said: Yes, this was the original assertion by @SchtivePesley "Yet an unprecedented 30 years with no wars between European countries?" Well isn't he a silly sausage then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 6 hours ago, 1of4 said: Presently we know what the EU looks like and what advantages we gain from being a member of the EU. That's why I voted to stay in the EU. As I don't need a crystal ball to know we are presently better off economically, than we would be if we were to trade under current WTO rules. I'll carry on hoping we never leave. As a remainer I knew what to expect for at least the coming year, well the brexit campaigners claim it takes the EU that long to make a decision, so everything stays the same until they do. So yes as a reminder I could probably claim to see into the future. As for brexit, since the referendum nobody including our brexiteering government knows what is happening from one day to the next, never mind whats happening for the next twelve months. I still wonder what sort of leave many leave voters thought they were voting for. As leading brexiteers in the last government couldn't agree to what sort of brexit they wanted. With all due respect, ‘knowing what to expect for at least the coming year’ does not cut it for me. We’ve waited decades to have a say and IMO the EU has gone in a direction I don’t like and feel it will be to the detriment of future generations.. I respect your view, I really do but I guess you and I are at different ends on the risk taking charts. How do we ever move on at anything without taking some risk. Everything you do has a risk involved.. Countries are made great by taking risks, companies are made great by taking risks. People are made great by taking risks.. Some people thrive on not taking risk but they will just stagnate.. Staying in is a risk.. Personally, that risk is unacceptable to me.. I have stated before that I am not anti the EU as it is today, lots I hate but I can live with it.. Tomorrow.... Meh, not for me. You are taking a very short term view, I am taking a very long term view.. We trade very will with a lot of countries that we impose tariffs on their goods.. Lots of countries thrive outside the EU. Why can we not be one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 I've just seen the website myeu.uk. Interesting to see how much EU funding is in the local area. Within a mile of my house the EU spent £1.2m. If only the EU had advertised the work they do better, maybe people would be more supportive of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I've just seen the website myeu.uk. Interesting to see how much EU funding is in the local area. Within a mile of my house the EU spent £1.2m. If only the EU had advertised the work they do better, maybe people would be more supportive of them. They should have put the number on the side of a bus. And multiplied it by 300. You should forward that url to Cameron and Osbourne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: I've just seen the website myeu.uk. Interesting to see how much EU funding is in the local area. Within a mile of my house the EU spent £1.2m. If only the EU had advertised the work they do better, maybe people would be more supportive of them. Is that a fraction back of the money we pay in. The rest goes towards building roads in Poland and car factories in Eastern European countries so the car companies can move their manufacturing over there and out of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Angry Ram said: With all due respect, ‘knowing what to expect for at least the coming year’ does not cut it for me. We’ve waited decades to have a say and IMO the EU has gone in a direction I don’t like and feel it will be to the detriment of future generations.. I respect your view, I really do but I guess you and I are at different ends on the risk taking charts. How do we ever move on at anything without taking some risk. Everything you do has a risk involved.. Countries are made great by taking risks, companies are made great by taking risks. People are made great by taking risks.. Some people thrive on not taking risk but they will just stagnate.. Staying in is a risk.. Personally, that risk is unacceptable to me.. I have stated before that I am not anti the EU as it is today, lots I hate but I can live with it.. Tomorrow.... Meh, not for me. You are taking a very short term view, I am taking a very long term view.. We trade very will with a lot of countries that we impose tariffs on their goods.. Lots of countries thrive outside the EU. Why can we not be one of those? No bother with people taking risks in their own life. It's when the risks that are being taken, can have an impact not going only on my family but also the future generations of our country. More worryingly is who we are going to be giving the responsibility of deciding what risks the country will take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: Is that a fraction back of the money we pay in. The rest goes towards building roads in Poland and car factories in Eastern European countries so the car companies can move their manufacturing over there and out of the UK. Yes, of course it is. I think the idea of everyone taking more than they pay in doesn't work. I think that's called corbynomics amongst the right </joke> My understanding is that the poorest countries are given something like 3 years where they take out more than they pay in. That allows for them an opportunity to grow their economies. Who needs poor neighbours? Better to build them up to be richer countries that can afford to trade with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: Is that a fraction back of the money we pay in. The rest goes towards building roads in Poland and car factories in Eastern European countries so the car companies can move their manufacturing over there and out of the UK. Yes, it’s shared. To make the community better as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 21 minutes ago, 1of4 said: No bother with people taking risks in their own life. It's when the risks that are being taken, can have an impact not going only on my family but also the future generations of our country. More worryingly is who we are going to be giving the responsibility of deciding what risks the country will take. The UK Government as always. There is your chance to change every few years. You get nothing of the sort with the EU bar those meaningless MEPs. Governments of all persuasions take risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 So how many times you going to vote @GboroRam and @SchtivePesley. Just the normal twice, or maybe more? Bet you have them postal votes ready to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Norman said: So how many times you going to vote @GboroRam and @SchtivePesley. Just the normal twice, or maybe more? Bet you have them postal votes ready to go? Planning on just the once, like always. Are you getting prepared for a crap result for the right leaning parties, and complaining about electoral fraud despite a lack of evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 10 hours ago, GboroRam said: I've just seen the website myeu.uk. Interesting to see how much EU funding is in the local area. Within a mile of my house the EU spent £1.2m. If only the EU had advertised the work they do better, maybe people would be more supportive of them. With the money we gave them.. Maybe we should be more supportive of ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Hi all, not posted in this thread for a while. Just one question, if Corbyn gets in power, will Len McCluskey make a good deputy pm? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, TimRam said: Hi all, not posted in this thread for a while. Just one question, if Corbyn gets in power, will Len McCluskey make a good deputy pm? ? Which seat is he standing for? Pretty sure you have to be an MP to be in the cabinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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