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The Politics Thread 2019

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

On both points you are essentially asking for a lot less democracy.

Whilst simultaneously complaining that your view isn't being represented.

For a start proportional representation would almost certainly have delivered some actual UKIP MPs and then as a leaver you'd have been better represented in parliament and might have ended up with the Brexit that you want

 

 

Don’t talk about democracy mate. 

Both parties Red and Blue fought the 2017 election on mandates to leave  the EU and respect the 2016 referendum 

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, McRamFan said:

So as a Brexiteer, if you company makes job cuts, because of brexit, will you be volunteering?  After all, that is what you voted for...

Please do tell us how the EU has negatively impacted your life, and what benefits you will have once we leave?

McRamFan, if you think being in the EU hasn't negatively affected you/us, you're either very young or not paying attention.

Answering for myself, the EU has had the following negative impacts

-enforcing EU tender rules which have allowed fat cat bosses to outsource work to cheaper European labour that do not have the same rules (such as Health&Safety, pension contributions, workers rights etc. costing me and my workmates our jobs

-offering companies grants to build factories in Eastern Europe, taking work away from UK, costing me and my workmates our jobs

-insisting that Human Rights allows benefit-chasing immigrants means they are entitled (which would be fair, but) whilst not insisting the rest of the EU provide benefits in their own nations. Flooding the major cities and driving house/rental prices up, and creating a shortage of reasonably affordable accomodation.

There are elements of the EU which I love, but they are by default and not by design, the whole concept of EU is to create a United States of Europe and as a result, the UK has had it's skillset and it's soul ripped away. Go to ANY country in Europe, how many British products do you see? Do you ever see a UK made Washing Machine (or any other White goods) for example?

People talk about our turnover from Trade within the EU without acknowledging most of that is the UK spending money to prop up industries in other countries that provide things we used to provide for ourselves. 

Agriculture - almost gone. Fuel (coal etc) - gone. Car Manufacturing - almost gone. Train Building - almost gone. Steel - almost gone. Electronics - stifled/almost gone. Aviation/Aerospace - almost gone. 

What remains is now owned by foreign companies.

Then in tandem, NHS is being sold off for profit, Prisons being sold off for profit, social housing develops sold off and fiddled for profit, National Rail sold off for profit, land/sidings sold off for profit.

Teaching, Nursing, Policing all hit hard.

This ALL before Brexit was even mentioned.

 

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, cstand said:

Makes me laugh how people fear a no deal Brexit but don't fear Corbyn in number 10 he will turn this country into basket case like Venezuela.

I'd be intrigued, and mainly doubtful that you even know what is genuinely going on in Venezuela! For starters, the country is not the basket case it is being portrayed as, but more the holders of natural resources wanted by America!

Just to add, why/what do you fear about Corbyn? Above and beyond the current government systematically asset-stripping and selling off everything within the UK infrastructure and turning us into USA-lite, what could you possibly fear if you're not inherently evil?

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McRamFan

McRamFan

Posted
Posted

@Moist One I think a large part of the ruination of this nation lies at Thatchers feet.  She sold everything off and turned this into a service based economy.  That is why manufacturing hit the skids, and it happened way before grants where being handed out to east europe.

Tories pulled out of train development, we have the worst system in Europe, BR wanted to work with SNCF to develop a single approach, so that when a tunnel was built, you could get on a train in Derby and travel to Europe without changing trains, Thatcher didn't like that, so privatized it.  Sold off energy to the French government, and the steel to the Indians, and still paid them in International Aid.

She let the motor industry implode, she destroyed unions, tried to veto the European Employment Act, which enshrined minimum rights, such as holidays, sick pay, appears against dismissals and other such rights.  We have the worst terms and conditions for employment out of the whole EU, with possible exceptions to the newest members.

And this 'put the rich first' policy has been held up by every tory government since.

This isn't about the average working man vs the EU, this is the tories lying to the average man, because if we remain in the EU, it will become harder for them to peddle the lies they tell, year in year out.  Every tory has an excuse for every failure, and it starts with 'Because of the EU...'

And for the record, Labour are no better.

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Stive Pesley

Stive Pesley

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, cstand said:

Socialist governments always fail they run out of other people's money to spend. 

The hilarious oft-repeated line about socialism. Doesn't even make any sense.

How do you think money works? Money is created by the central bank - earned by people and then spent, and as a result - earned by other people and respent. The premise of that quote is that money must somehow disappear. Which is actually far more true of capitalism. "the problem with capitalism is that eventually all the money ends up in the Cayman isles offshore accounts of a handful of people"

 

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

@Moist One I think a large part of the ruination of this nation lies at Thatchers feet.  She sold everything off and turned this into a service based economy.  That is why manufacturing hit the skids, and it happened way before grants where being handed out to east europe.

Tories pulled out of train development, we have the worst system in Europe, BR wanted to work with SNCF to develop a single approach, so that when a tunnel was built, you could get on a train in Derby and travel to Europe without changing trains, Thatcher didn't like that, so privatized it.  Sold off energy to the French government, and the steel to the Indians, and still paid them in International Aid.

She let the motor industry implode, she destroyed unions, tried to veto the European Employment Act, which enshrined minimum rights, such as holidays, sick pay, appears against dismissals and other such rights.  We have the worst terms and conditions for employment out of the whole EU, with possible exceptions to the newest members.

And this 'put the rich first' policy has been held up by every tory government since.

This isn't about the average working man vs the EU, this is the tories lying to the average man, because if we remain in the EU, it will become harder for them to peddle the lies they tell, year in year out.  Every tory has an excuse for every failure, and it starts with 'Because of the EU...'

And for the record, Labour are no better.

they're all in it together. Tories enacting a plan concocted many years before. All about eventually a single currency, single army, single government.

how do we get rid of the tories? Well the plan was to make them implode with Brexit.

The best con they've ever pulled was making people think they actually want brexit. 

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, StivePesley said:

The hilarious oft-repeated line about socialism. Doesn't even make any sense.

How do you think money works? Money is created by the central bank - earned by people and then spent, and as a result - earned by other people and respent. The premise of that quote is that money must somehow disappear. Which is actually far more true of capitalism. "the problem with capitalism is that eventually all the money ends up in the Cayman isles offshore accounts of a handful of people"

 

They can’t get you your part of the Union right. 

Scargill is your mate I suppose 

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McRamFan

McRamFan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Curtains said:

For me Tony Blair and Gorden Brown  

Harold Wilson 

Jim Callaghan

Micheal Foot  

 

Foot - never led a government and was a brexiteer

Callaghan - refused to be bullied by the unions, lost to thatcher who then screwed the unions that got her there.

Wilson - wasn't a socialist, didn't like the idea of nationalisation. Kicked it off in NI.

Blair - really, war criminal, possibly, never a solcialist, he's minted

Brown - jury still out on him.

Get your facts right

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Foot - never led a government and was a brexiteer

Callaghan - refused to be bullied by the unions, lost to thatcher who then screwed the unions that got her there.

Wilson - wasn't a socialist, didn't like the idea of nationalisation. Kicked it off in NI.

Blair - really, war criminal, possibly, never a solcialist, he's minted

Brown - jury still out on him.

Get your facts right

Oh nasty. 

Fact is Labour Party has been ruiness to this country Tories always have to clear up their mess 

what was that saying by last Labour Party leaving office. We have left to nothing in the bank 

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