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The Politics Thread 2019


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6 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

We are ranked 7th in the world...

The problem is that we only sort of have a manufacturing industry because it is a series of moveable assembly factories or perhaps a few icons like RR.

the guts of our manufacturing has long gone. The forges, foundries, machine shops and raw material makers that form a supply chain have gone. 

But before anyone blames the unions or Maggie the reason is that we are civilised, less civilised countries now make all these things without the worker protections that we rightly have. Leaving out truculent side of unions and the Sports direct type ugly employers at the edges, the real truth is the advanced west with its environment and people caring systems that have developed over the last 100 years have been shafted - partly because others are less scrupulous and partly because we all want a high tech TV that costs about the same as a meal out for a family. 

Well that’s my thought for the day

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14 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

We are ranked 7th in the world... 

Two years ago we were 5th in the world.

Stick your head back in the sand - there's a good Brexiteer.

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I find the whole situation totally depressing if i bother to think about it. We have a political elite who are as thick as sht. The only thing i enjoyed about the current circus was the row between boris and his bird.

"get off my fkn laptop!".

Hilarious. 

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I work in manufacturing, in the UK, for a small firm who export the majority of our output mostly outside the EU, from raw material sourced roughly 50/50 domestically and from the EU.

Not only are we thriving, but new customers seem to arrive on an almost weekly basis, mostly from outside the EU, business has never been better.

I'm not saying anything one way or the other regarding Brexit, but it's quite annoying when people claim we don't manufacture or export anything anymore when my experience is the opposite.

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5 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

I work in manufacturing, in the UK, for a small firm who export the majority of our output mostly outside the EU, from raw material sourced roughly 50/50 domestically and from the EU.

Not only are we thriving, but new customers seem to arrive on an almost weekly basis, mostly from outside the EU, business has never been better.

I'm not saying anything one way or the other regarding Brexit, but it's quite annoying when people claim we don't manufacture or export anything anymore when my experience is the opposite.

The problem is personal experience doesn't tell anything about the global situation. Could be good, could be an exception. Literally means nothing. 

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1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

Ah yes, the "believe in Brexit" argument. Like small girls might believe in fairies. 

Big difference between thinking we could stay at around 7th for another 10/20 years and thinking we could end up 70th.

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24 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

The problem is personal experience doesn't tell anything about the global situation. Could be good, could be an exception. Literally means nothing. 

Means something when you work in an industry you constantly read is dead, I can tell you.

I'd guess the colleagues and suppliers, the customers and the supply train around engineering would also say the same.

 

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50 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

Means something when you work in an industry you constantly read is dead, I can tell you.

I'd guess the colleagues and suppliers, the customers and the supply train around engineering would also say the same.

 

What do you make ( just out of interest?)

 

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7 hours ago, reveldevil said:

Means something when you work in an industry you constantly read is dead, I can tell you.

I'd guess the colleagues and suppliers, the customers and the supply train around engineering would also say the same.

 

Nobody saying any industry is "dead" means literally nobody makes anything of that nature in the country. They mean the amount made has fallen dramatically. If we used to make millions, and now we make dozens, I would say that industry has died. If you happen to work making the dozens still manufactured, your tale doesn't help anyone understand the global picture. 

When someone says, I work for a company that makes steam engines and business is up, it tells me nothing about the importance of steam in the modern world. 

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7 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Big difference between thinking we could stay at around 7th for another 10/20 years and thinking we could end up 70th.

It's Minford we're quoting, one from your team. Not some lefty scaremongerer. He says decimated. Do you infer industries that are decimated will be 7th on the global scale, or nearer 70th?

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1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

It's Minford we're quoting, one from your team. Not some lefty scaremongerer. He says decimated. Do you infer industries that are decimated will be 7th on the global scale, or nearer 70th?

But using your argument above, the UK manufacturing industry was being decimated long before the Referendum.

If it were to be eradicated then it would just be a continuation of the trend of the last 20 years.

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27 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Good article here in todays Guardian;

Labour can’t afford to lose its working-class heartlands by backing remain

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/26/labour-working-class-heartlands-remain-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw

Lays out the grand dilemma for the party - that's for sure. Hard to see a way forward for Labour or the Tories thanks to Brexit. Hard to see a way forward at al for anyone ?

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2 hours ago, Uptherams said:

And yet the statistics show we aren't Cuba. 

Cuba has been suffering under a US Trade Embargo for nearly 60 years.  Hardly fair or relevant to compare their situation with anyone else in the world.

The situation for manufacturing industries is always going to be difficult for western countries.  Large employers tend to move their operations to countries where wages are lower in order to cut labour costs.  

There doesn't seem to be a way around the problem until wages around become more equal, thereby leveling the playing field.

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