Sack Frank

[CornwallRam]

I still think that this is the month that is going to decide Frank's managerial career. 

We're in a hole at the moment. But most seasons bring poor runs and injury build ups. It's part of what managers have to cope with. A good manager will find a way to dig us out of that hole. A poor one will just see us sink further and further. Which is Frank? No idea, but ask me again in a month and I reckon we'll all know.

I know a lot of people want Frank to be given time and I reckon 99% of those would be saying the same thing for any Derby manager in our current position. There's a lot to be said for stability. But it's not a simple recipe for success. Mel needs to give the right manager time and resources, but the more time and resources he gives to the wrong manager, the worse things will get. We really don't want to spend next season in a relegation battle and slip into administration the season after because a poor manager has wasted all of Mel's resources and halved the support. That's what backing the wrong man looks like. 

Given the situation in the summer, Mel has a really big decision to make and I don't think he can risk the gamble of sticking with Lampard if things continue to decline. Hopefully, tomorrow is the beginning of the fight back and we'll all be singing Frank's when he's waiving at us from the top of the promotion bus.

[cheron85]

I do find it a little odd that so many people are up in arms after a couple of bad results - We're Derby County - The extent of my lifetime as a fan so far has been a consistent delivery of 'almost there' so why is this season so much more surprising for everyone?

We have a brand spanking new manager - Not just new to the club but new to being a manager - He's got a vision and seems to want to stick at it (good) - And this season is trying to make the best of the patchwork squad we currently have - People seem to forget that whilst we have a very good set of individual players most of them were brought in by different managers wanting to play different styles - It's no wonder they can't play together well when they each have strengths in completely different styles of football

Lampard has made 3 good loan signings - So I would suggest has an eye for young talent who can make an immediate effect - He's blooded youth players like Bogle, Thomas and Bird - He's given Bennett a chance (because someone ought to have done by now) - He's brought in Malone, Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes and Cole who've all looked good and Evans who's looked average - I'd say that's a pretty solid transfer record so far - He's had us playing some great football at times - We've given a number of Premier League teams a good run for their money in the cups - And we're still 3 points outside the playoffs even though I'd have been happy with a top 10 finish in this first season - It's also worth noting that someone on Sky the other day commented that we've played more games than anyone other than Man City this season (assuming domestic only) with a squad which is fairly small and has had a lot of injuries - That PLUS he's managed to get Keogh down to like 1 mistake in every 4/5 games

Sorry - Rant over - PATIENCE is the word people

[bcnram]

40 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I do find it a little odd that so many people are up in arms after a couple of bad results - We're Derby County - The extent of my lifetime as a fan so far has been a consistent delivery of 'almost there' so why is this season so much more surprising for everyone?

We have a brand spanking new manager - Not just new to the club but new to being a manager - He's got a vision and seems to want to stick at it (good) - And this season is trying to make the best of the patchwork squad we currently have - People seem to forget that whilst we have a very good set of individual players most of them were brought in by different managers wanting to play different styles - It's no wonder they can't play together well when they each have strengths in completely different styles of football

Lampard has made 3 good loan signings - So I would suggest has an eye for young talent who can make an immediate effect - He's blooded youth players like Bogle, Thomas and Bird - He's given Bennett a chance (because someone ought to have done by now) - He's brought in Malone, Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes and Cole who've all looked good and Evans who's looked average - I'd say that's a pretty solid transfer record so far - He's had us playing some great football at times - We've given a number of Premier League teams a good run for their money in the cups - And we're still 3 points outside the playoffs even though I'd have been happy with a top 10 finish in this first season - It's also worth noting that someone on Sky the other day commented that we've played more games than anyone other than Man City this season (assuming domestic only) with a squad which is fairly small and has had a lot of injuries - That PLUS he's managed to get Keogh down to like 1 mistake in every 4/5 games

Sorry - Rant over - PATIENCE is the word people

Disagree with a few of your points, apart from Marriott who is being hung out to dry by his tactics, I don’t particularly rate any of his permanent signings. 

I can live with a poor run, most teams have them. The football is so, so boring, and I am not just talking about the messing around at the back, it is all of it. It’s as if a Mum has taken over coaching the U15’s 3rd 11. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, bcnram said:

Disagree with a few of your points, apart from Marriott who is being hung out to dry by his tactics, I don’t particularly rate any of his permanent signings.

And on the back of that and how much we've paid out would you let FL have free rein in summer?

[bcnram]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

And on the back of that and how much we've paid out would you let FL have free rein in summer?

If I was Mel I would be nervous. Since Nigel left we don’t seem to be able to pick up the gems within the UK. Since Jim left, our overseas recruitment hasn’t been great. 

As a minimum Frank needs good support on recruitment. 

[nogbad van 50]

4 minutes ago, bcnram said:

If I was Mel I would be nervous. Since Nigel left we don’t seem to be able to pick up the gems within the UK. Since Jim left, our overseas recruitment hasn’t been great. 

As a minimum Frank needs good support on recruitment. 

Can we sign up Brentford’s recruitment set up ??

[Van der MoodHoover]

18 minutes ago, rcarso1 said:

Can we sign up Brentford’s recruitment set up ??

Available on ebay I understand....?

[cheron85]

19 hours ago, bcnram said:

Disagree with a few of your points, apart from Marriott who is being hung out to dry by his tactics, I don’t particularly rate any of his permanent signings. 

I can live with a poor run, most teams have them. The football is so, so boring, and I am not just talking about the messing around at the back, it is all of it. It’s as if a Mum has taken over coaching the U15’s 3rd 11. 

Okay well that's your prerogative - I think Holmes has shown flashes of being a potentially brilliant box-to-box midfielder and substitute winger - Malone is an exciting modern LB and Cole is pure class still - If you don't see the value in Waghorn then that's fine - You're definitely wrong, but you're well within your rights to be as wrong as you like ? 

I find the football a lot more interesting than it was last season - But then I like it when we have the ball - We're going through a poor patch at the moment but I don't think before that our football was boring - If you preferred the Rowett "boot-it-and-and-run" style then that's fine but that almost lost me as a season ticket holder it was so dire

[bcnram]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Okay well that's your prerogative - I think Holmes has shown flashes of being a potentially brilliant box-to-box midfielder and substitute winger - Malone is an exciting modern LB and Cole is pure class still - If you don't see the value in Waghorn then that's fine - You're definitely wrong, but you're well within your rights to be as wrong as you like ? 

I find the football a lot more interesting than it was last season - But then I like it when we have the ball - We're going through a poor patch at the moment but I don't think before that our football was boring - If you preferred the Rowett "boot-it-and-and-run" style then that's fine but that almost lost me as a season ticket holder it was so dire

Good God Rowett’s foitball was horrible. Lampard’s is just very boring. A lot to ask I know, but I want to see the ball moved about quickly, I want to see players moving for the ball and working for each other and that is not happening. Frank May want the same but he and his team are clearly not good enough to get the message over. Regarding Holmes you are correct with the term ‘flashes’, that is it, just flashes and that is ok in League 1. I do understand why these flashes are so attractive to some people but I look at the wider picture. He spends too much time on his heels and moving into the wrong space. Waghorn can’t control a ball. Cole is a stop gap because he is Franks mate and Malone is not that good at defending. 

Frank needs a lot of help with recruiting and an improvement on his coaching team. 

[cheron85]

5 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Good God Rowett’s foitball was horrible. Lampard’s is just very boring. A lot to ask I know, but I want to see the ball moved about quickly, I want to see players moving for the ball and working for each other and that is not happening. Frank May want the same but he and his team are clearly not good enough to get the message over. Regarding Holmes you are correct with the term ‘flashes’, that is it, just flashes and that is ok in League 1. I do understand why these flashes are so attractive to some people but I look at the wider picture. He spends too much time on his heels and moving into the wrong space. Waghorn can’t control a ball. Cole is a stop gap because he is Franks mate and Malone is not that good at defending. 

Frank needs a lot of help with recruiting and an improvement on his coaching team. 

It has been in patches - But we don't have the personnel at the moment to pull it off but (for me) that's because he's trying to do it with other people's players - It's going to take a bit of time to get everyone up to speed and bring in the right players - The whole point is if they can do it for 10-15 minutes now, given time they'll turn that into 45 mins - 45 mins of great football and 45 mins of tight defending = a very successful side (assuming you spread the 45 across game rather than just playing half and half)

He obviously doesn't value defending in his full backs anyway ? Otherwise he'd be playing Wisdom ahead of Bogle as standard

[Millenniumram]

17 hours ago, HantsRam said:

Available on ebay I understand....?

Isn’t that what frank uses to decide the team news?

[ramsbottom]

Just putting this out there, but if we where in a alternate dimension whereby the last four season's worth of new year slumps hadn't been a thing, would there be so much of a collective meltdown over our form since the turn of the year???  Take the previous season's burnouts out the equation (cus how can they be the fault of Frank?) and does the form seem to warrant such hysteria???

[cheron85]

9 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Just putting this out there, but if we where in a alternate dimension whereby the last four season's worth of new year slumps hadn't been a thing, would there be so much of a collective meltdown over our form since the turn of the year???  Take the previous season's burnouts out the equation (cus how can they be the fault of Frank?) and does the form seem to warrant such hysteria???

I don't recall there having been many people on the forum when we appointed Lampard saying promotion was a must - I don't even remember many saying top 6 was a must this season

Yet now, everyone is up in arms because we're not challenging for promotion

People have very short memories

[RadioactiveWaste]

35 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I don't recall there having been many people on the forum when we appointed Lampard saying promotion was a must - I don't even remember many saying top 6 was a must this season

Yet now, everyone is up in arms because we're not challenging for promotion

People have very short memories

We've had five seasons of going at it and not got over the line yet, some fall back is going to be inevitable at some point, it happens to all clubs who don't get promotion over the line.

as long as the ownership and finances are stable the club will be fine in the long run. The worrying ones are when a lot of leveraged borrowing funds the challenge which thanks to Mel is not the situation now. Remember the fire sale after Burley's team lost to PNE for example.

[cheron85]

3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

We've had five seasons of going at it and not got over the line yet, some fall back is going to be inevitable at some point, it happens to all clubs who don't get promotion over the line.

as long as the ownership and finances are stable the club will be fine in the long run. The worrying ones are when a lot of leveraged borrowing funds the challenge which thanks to Mel is not the situation now. Remember the fire sale after Burley's team lost to PNE for example.

I just think we need a re-group and a bit of patience

Looks like we're having a big clear out in the summer which will strip us back to a squad Lampard can work with from scratch - I doubt in that situation we'll be challenging for promotion next year so let's give it some time and see what happens

Lampard has shown on a number of occasions in big games he's prepared to roll the dice on changes and has done it in ways that work more times than he's failed - It'll take time for him to learn lessons from his mistakes and to build a squad of players he's happy with - I've seen enough promise so far and believe in his intelligence enough that he will learn - And in Morris he seems to have a number 2 who can recognise which young players are ready to step up

I'm more bored of the 'promotion now' people than anything else at the club - They bore me more than watching the Accrington game did

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I'm more bored of the 'promotion now' people than anything else at the club - They bore me more than watching the Accrington game did

Now? I must have missed it then! Just as fans have been wanting promotion so has the club!

[Tamworthram]

58 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I don't recall there having been many people on the forum when we appointed Lampard saying promotion was a must - I don't even remember many saying top 6 was a must this season

Yet now, everyone is up in arms because we're not challenging for promotion

People have very short memories

Not everyone is up in arms because we're not challenging for promotion (even though actually sitting 7th we are still). I for one am not.

I reckon that if we were playing OK football, winning a few, losing a few, drawing a few and even a little lower in the table most supporters would accept it (partly on the basis that we have yet another new manager and it is his first ever season). But what is upsetting everyone is current form and lack of goal scoring opportunities created. Admittedly the bar was set unreasonably high with some of our earlier games (Man U, Chelsea, WBA and first half an hour away at Middlesbrough).

Having said that, I personally still fully support Frank but it would be nice to at least have a few shots on target (starting tonight against Wigan please).

[cheron85]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Now? I must have missed it then! Just as fans have been wanting promotion so has the club!

Yeh - I stand by my statement - The last time we got promotion was terrible because we weren't ready and we've had a whole series of managers now who didn't have time to build anything - Clement being the classic, giving up any semblance of footballing philosophy to grind out results for immediate promotion

My Dad always likes to point out that Brian Clough finished lower in his first season than we had under the previous manager - But he put in place a philosophy, a way of playing and brought in the players to create his backbone - And that led to future success

So far we've not done that - We've either had managers who were stylistically wrong (Pearson, Rowett), not bought into long term building (Clement) or had annoyed the owner (McClaren) - So we just need to have patience for a season at least!

[Zag zig]

On 04/03/2019 at 11:04, Curtains said:

Mate Villa were always up for that game particularly with Grealish back who is class. 

Max Bird got his first start and I’d stick  with him and give him first team playing time as he will be good for us 

Frank has injuries to key players like Mount and  Lawrence and Wilson had been ill. 

The future isn’t that bad IMO 

Tell you what Curtains, I don’t always agree with your way of looking at things but that is it in a nutshell.

Went to Villa with trepidation knowing our form injuries and though it shouldn’t have any bearing, past history against Villa. Add Grealish who really makes them tick, it was just the manner of defeat that got to me. Frank is throwing ideas at team selections, trying to get results and lost his way playing style wise, a bit in the process to me. Six changes still seems excessive but I guess all part of his learning curve.

He’s been plagued with key players injured though, Max Bird’s enforced promotion is another plus, I hope we persevere or at least give him more game time. Our U23’s look very promising when you consider Bogle is still in that bracket and Bennett a useful and I suspect relatively cheap impact option off the bench at least.

Clear out a few, I’ve every hope Frank will learn from this season. Win a few of our next few games and this thread could look ridiculous, lose a few and I suspect it will provide more hysterical ammunition for the doubters. My take would be clear out most of the out of contracts, give the likes of Cresswell and others a bit more game time if we drop out the play off contention and let’s see what happens in the summer.

My rose tinted glasses are still on and I still believe in Frank, far too much negativity. Win tonight would help mind. C.O.Y.R’s

[cheron85]

28 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But what is upsetting everyone is current form and lack of goal scoring opportunities created.

Everyone has periods of poor form - That doesn't mean we need to sack the manager - The people calling for his head are ludicrous (is my main point)