V Sheffield United (a) match day thread

[KCG]

12 hours ago, Derby blood said:

For myself and many other, right minded Derby fans Keogh has been our most consistent defender for years, will be sorely missed when he leaves, Keogh like myself and many others,   we can see you are proud to be a Ram, Mr Keogh us TRUE Rams love you.

LOL... "right-minded", "true Rams"... do hyperbole much?

Ask most opposition fans whether they would want Keogh and the answer would be a resounding no, and there's a good reason for that. Like most club's supporters, we are not short of people who watch through rose-coloured specs.

[SillyBilly]

12 hours ago, Derby blood said:

For myself and many other, right minded Derby fans Keogh has been our most consistent defender for years, will be sorely missed when he leaves, Keogh like myself and many others,   we can see you are proud to be a Ram, Mr Keogh us TRUE Rams love you.

Yep, I will always back him 100%. He gets caught out from time to time as he is often the only one trying to make something happen. Plenty of charging runs up from the back against Sheff U and if his team mates were more on it we might have capitalised on it. There are plenty of people in the team I'd change ahead of Keogh, over a season we know he delivers more than he costs.

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Ramarena said:

 

Last week I asked if the people that want Keogh out could name a better CB that doesn’t make mistakes that we could get in for the 1 million Keogh cost?

 

 

That million was in 2012 though. Horses for courses.

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, KCG said:

LOL... "right-minded", "true Rams"... do hyperbole much?

Ask most opposition fans whether they would want Keogh and the answer would be a resounding no, and there's a good reason for that. Like most club's supporters, we are not short of people who watch through rose-coloured specs.

Just out of interest, how many opposition fans have you asked?

[NottsRam77]

On 27/12/2018 at 00:03, Alpha said:

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

I rate Tomori. I do agree he's made a lot of errors but I also thinks he's saved us more often and by 'us' I don't mean himself. I mean he's covered LB's, Keogh, Carson and when in possession him and Keogh have constantly tried to carry out Frank's message. I rate Curtis Davies as a head and kick man but I don't think he sets us up well in possession and while he wouldn't make the errors Tomori has made I don't think he'd cover Malone, Keogh etc as well. And he's a solid defender. 

I find the full backs far more frustrating. I find Bogle more of a frustration than Tomori. He has more skill on the ball than what he's showing and he just can't get his distances, timing right to stop crosses. 

I don't think our CB's are protected well tbh. You've got both full backs that will let crosses in too often. You've got sticky feet Carson, who while an excellent shot stopper and good positioning for making saves, he just won't command anything other than a 80/20 chance inside his area. If he's in doubt then he holds.

And Huddlestone, Bryson and Mount. The first two if they don't win the ball within a second of the opponent reaching it then they will get left for dead. Huddlestone needs to get hold of them because he can't move after they've passed him and Bryson is rarely more than a terrier. Now he's getting on a bit he's not able to keep pressure on. 

Our CB's are spread thin imo and carry too much responsibility. Actually the back 6 carry too much altogether. The CB's don't get support, the full backs don't get enough support from wingers, Hudds and the defenders are now tasked with picking out the front 6 while they have relative freedom to do stepovers. 

The exception being Marriott who does his tasks. The rest seem to lack cohesion. Mount is a super player but kind of a luxury. Lawrence is a luxury. Jozefzoon is a luxury. Bryson is a passenger. 

For me there's not enough meat in anything they do. It's all a bit carefree. They need partnerships and discipline. Good players and in some games they really look alive. In others they're the audience 

Although we differ on views re tomori, u make some superb points mate and I agree with lots of them and how u deliver them mate is bang on as I see it 

It’s nice to have a well thought out discussion 

would love to chat footy over a beer with u, would be a thing of beauty that people would pay to watch lol 

[sonofmidnight]

Why when posters make even one negative comment about a player are they then told they are haters, not true rams, ignorant about football and haven't watched the match. Not true, not true, not true, not true! It becomes a poor forum when people cannot make observations and engage in debate without others making statements such as mentioned above.

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

The charactistuc of Keogh is top championship and lower end PL standard defending for 70-80 minutes each match, coupled with a sure fire number of ridiculous errors. That's how the rose tints and happy clappers see  a top championship defender And the haters can see his liability, both are true and exist without invalidating the other.

Fact is you could less good but more consistent CBs but as good and without the errors would cost a lot and probably be in demand by low end prem sides.

[sonofmidnight]

It is possible to admire, like, love a player and yet point out mistakes. If we are talking about Keogh I admire a great deal about him and recognise that he fully deserves to be where he is. Any criticism I make of him in no way negates that.

[RamNut]

Watched the full 90 again.

it looked even worse second time around.

the number of times we gave the ball away was incredible. And we just went totally to pieces at 1-1. I think waghorn will be guaranteed to start v norwich as frank looks for a bit of character.

It might just be him, marriott and wilson. 

 

[MuespachRam]

14 hours ago, Derby blood said:

For myself and many other, right minded Derby fans Keogh has been our most consistent defender for years, will be sorely missed when he leaves, Keogh like myself and many others,   we can see you are proud to be a Ram, Mr Keogh us TRUE Rams love you.

So because I have a different opinion to you on a certain player then I am not a TRUE fan..? Give me strength. 

Mine thing in that post you made is totally correct though, Keogh has been consistent for years, but unfortunately for us NON-TRUE fans he has been consistently poop. 

[Key clubber]

2 hours ago, Bigfella said:

As a converse to your watching football for 37 years I’ve been going out with or married to women for about the same time and I certainly know nothing about them.

Can we not blame this on Keogh some how to keep the post going ?

[Angry Ram]

55 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

So because I have a different opinion to you on a certain player then I am not a TRUE fan..? Give me strength. 

Mine thing in that post you made is totally correct though, Keogh has been consistent for years, but unfortunately for us NON-TRUE fans he has been consistently poop. 

There’s only one TRUE Ram and he is on 31pts in Mozzas league.

[ChrisKeogh]

Presuming that Chelsea wanted Tomori to develop as a defender through watching and learning from a more experienced CH whilst at DCFC. I assume that Frank's plan was that the role model was meant to be Davies. Unfortunately for Tomori it is Keogh.

So here's 4 really basic errors that Tomori has seen from Keogh in last three games. There have been endless other basic defensive errors in those three games alone. 

What you should do 1:

When the ball is coming towards you in from high in the air and you are under no pressure you could head it away or bring in down onto the deck and then pass it to a team mate. Don't let the ball bounce.

What Keogh did:

Rush towards the ball, then back pedal at the last minute so that it bounces in front of you, then scramble back to get the ball (v Forest).

What you should do 2:

When your fellow CH has over-committed himself on the halfway line and you are also quite close to the half way line you could drop back to give your CH time to sort it out whilst putting yourself in a good position should the ball break free.  Don't over-commit when you are the last line of defence.

What Keogh did:

Rush into the opposite half to be next to your CH mate because when the ball breaks free past both of you into the space that you are supposed to be defending, you can rely on young RB will drop back to cover you (v Forest).

What you should do 3:

When the ball is up in the air and you are tracking back you could head it back to your keeper if you are sure that you can do it, otherwise you could head the ball as far away from your goal as you can. Clear your lines; play the ball away from your goal; be aware of what is around you.

What Keogh did:

Head the ball backwards without any power in the general direction of his goal and hope that it doesn't fall into the run of one of their players (v BCFC)

What you should do 4:

When you move out of defence and can see that your fellow CH who is in the centre of the pitch has stepped up on his man, you could make sure that you step up too or you could tell your CH to step back so that their man does not have a free run if the ball comes over the top. Don't play them onsite; let your CH know what he needs to know.

What Keogh did:

Wander out from the back in a RB position, playing your fellow CH's man onside without letting the CH know. (v SUFC)

I could continue. My point is that these are not sophisticated tactics, skills or abilities. They are the basic tenets of defending. Making attacking runs isn't.

Tomori looks a poorer player now than he did in his first few games - given what he is seeing from Keogh it is hardly surprising IHMO.

If Frank dumps Keogh and brings in a new CH who can do the basics that are required - playing alongside Tomori / showing him the ropes - it predict that Tomori will return to his previous best or even better than that.

 

 

 

[Mucker1884]

58 minutes ago, ChrisKeogh said:

Presuming that Chelsea wanted Tomori to develop as a defender through watching and learning from a more experienced CH whilst at DCFC. I assume that Frank's plan was that the role model was meant to be Davies. Unfortunately for Tomori it is Keogh.

So here's 4 really basic errors that Tomori has seen from Keogh in last three games. There have been endless other basic defensive errors in those three games alone. 

What you should do 1:

When the ball is coming towards you in from high in the air and you are under no pressure you could head it away or bring in down onto the deck and then pass it to a team mate. Don't let the ball bounce.

What Keogh did:

Rush towards the ball, then back pedal at the last minute so that it bounces in front of you, then scramble back to get the ball (v Forest).

What you should do 2:

When your fellow CH has over-committed himself on the halfway line and you are also quite close to the half way line you could drop back to give your CH time to sort it out whilst putting yourself in a good position should the ball break free.  Don't over-commit when you are the last line of defence.

What Keogh did:

Rush into the opposite half to be next to your CH mate because when the ball breaks free past both of you into the space that you are supposed to be defending, you can rely on young RB will drop back to cover you (v Forest).

What you should do 3:

When the ball is up in the air and you are tracking back you could head it back to your keeper if you are sure that you can do it, otherwise you could head the ball as far away from your goal as you can. Clear your lines; play the ball away from your goal; be aware of what is around you.

What Keogh did:

Head the ball backwards without any power in the general direction of his goal and hope that it doesn't fall into the run of one of their players (v BCFC)

What you should do 4:

When you move out of defence and can see that your fellow CH who is in the centre of the pitch has stepped up on his man, you could make sure that you step up too or you could tell your CH to step back so that their man does not have a free run if the ball comes over the top. Don't play them onsite; let your CH know what he needs to know.

What Keogh did:

Wander out from the back in a RB position, playing your fellow CH's man onside without letting the CH know. (v SUFC)

I could continue. My point is that these are not sophisticated tactics, skills or abilities. They are the basic tenets of defending. Making attacking runs isn't.

Tomori looks a poorer player now than he did in his first few games - given what he is seeing from Keogh it is hardly surprising IHMO.

If Frank dumps Keogh and brings in a new CH who can do the basics that are required - playing alongside Tomori / showing him the ropes - it predict that Tomori will return to his previous best or even better than that.

 

 

 

So, in a nutshell....  

[MuespachRam]

25 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

So, in a nutshell....  

In a nutshell...Keogh is rubbish. But only to Non-TRUE Rams fans.....

[Steve How Hard?]

For what it's worth I'm not one his critics and respect other people's opinions of him whilst disagreeing with the over the top stuff. It does appear some do seem to over analyse his every move to find something that fits their narrative. Futile behaviour imho as I think he's a mainstay of the team for the time being. 

[cannable]

27 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

For what it's worth I'm not one his critics and respect other people's opinions of him whilst disagreeing with the over the top stuff. It does appear some do seem to over analyse his every move to find something that fits their narrative. Futile behaviour imho as I think he's a mainstay of the team for the time being. 

It’s this that I find so weird. 

Blaming him for the first for picking up a spare man… not developing Tomori enough and literally being responsible for his poor form… it’s stuff like that that’s just ridiculous. 

 

[KCG]

5 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Just out of interest, how many opposition fans have you asked?

Villa fans before our recent match were saying our defence is weak.

[Ramarena]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

It’s this that I find so weird. 

Blaming him for the first for picking up a spare man… not developing Tomori enough and literally being responsible for his poor form… it’s stuff like that that’s just ridiculous. 

 

Yup rational criticism is fine whether you agree or not.

Its the over the top, looney blaming him for everything since Wembley that gets people wound up.

Yes we know he has his faults, they tell us week in week out anyways, but you aren’t going to find better value at the moment unless we unearth a quality youngster from our academy.

At the end of the day a line of managers since Clough have obviously concluded that keeping Keogh is better business than taking the chance on getting shot of him and blowing part of their budget on replacing a good champ level player with another good champ level player. It doesn’t make sense!

Anyways it’s all Richard pestilence Keogh’s fault!

[MuespachRam]

5 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Yup rational criticism is fine whether you agree or not.

Its the over the top, looney blaming him for everything since Wembley that gets people wound up.

Yes we know he has his faults, they tell us week in week out anyways, but you aren’t going to find better value at the moment unless we unearth a quality youngster from our academy.

At the end of the day a line of managers since Clough have obviously concluded that keeping Keogh is better business than taking the chance on getting shot of him and blowing part of their budget on replacing a good champ level player with another good champ level player. It doesn’t make sense!

Anyways it’s all Richard pestilence Keogh’s fault!

Or...? No one would ever want to buy him off us...?