V Sheffield United (a) match day thread

[Turnstile]

4 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Good analysis of some of the failings.

I mentioed last week that some of our fans refuse to let go of Wembley and they will never forgive Keogh for it!

Bristol city fans used to laugh and cry at Keogh long before Wembley.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, Turnstile said:

Bristol city fans used to laugh and cry at Keogh long before Wembley.

He played for them ten and a half years ago.

I bet 23 year old me is better at football than 12 year old me 

[NottsRam77]

33 minutes ago, 'Rambe33 said:

Using Frank Lampards favourite phrase "Let's have it right" we have been poor for a while now but somehownhave managed to stick around the top 6 mix. 

I went today and was so disappointed with our performance and the game. 

I have to say I'm glad a few more are realising Fikayo Tomori is by far the answer at the back. His pace is his only saving grace. He has been at fault countless times this season yet doesn't seem to get the criticism he deserves. He seems to play as if he's above the team and this league, yet he is a poor defender, with his judgement and positioning killing us hence our lack of clean sheets. 

Bogle and Wisdom on the whole I thought did OK. I heard the Lampard interview and we did seem to get on top of Sheff U towards the end of the first half but you have to strike when on top and we've not done that in a number of games now. 

Even when we got level, that was the time to get on top and attack them. At this point Wilsons goal which was incredible being 4 rows back behind the goal just papered over the cracks for me. Lampard is very reactive at the moment to change things. Jozefzoon may as well not been there. Not beating his man once, no crosses and severe lack of support for Bogle. Are you Abdul Camara in disguise? 

We move the ball far too slow but our rigidness to play the ball even when we've been pressed and players are marked is so frustrating. There is nothing wrong with mixing your game up and playing direct to get into the final third where you can then play your football. This for me is a huge reason Marriott gets so little service. 

How many clear cut chances did we actually create today? 

I've received pelters on Twitter for slamming the  performance and daring to question Lampards selection and tactics today. Keyword being today. Im still fully behind Frank but today was a shocker and those paying fans have every right to vent a little anger/disappointment/frustration after standing through that In Sheffield. 

You are allowed an opinion and just because we've got a bright young manager he can still be criticised. It does seem at the moment you're either blinded by the FL lights still and have the stock "would you prefer Rowett ball?" This is naive. Move on! If anyone was happy with today then they need to give up! Same goes for Bristol City at home Iust say! 

I'm not saying we would have won today with Waghorn playing but why he thought playing Jozefzoon over Waghorn was the best way to go I'm still baffled. Waghorn is stronger, more aggressive and just scored a goal in his last game. Players with character were missing today, Waghorn is one of few we have who can give us some guts and guile! 

I'm going to Norwich but not holding my breath after today. 

I thought the team selection would have been obvious today, God knows what he'll go to for Norwich after today. 

But no matter what probably Keoghs fault, Nugent starts a bounce so he's OK, Tomori is 21 and quick so it can't be his fault and if you dare to question tactics or selection from FL you are a toxic waste of space... 

Can't wait for Delia's Batternberg barmy army... ?

Up the Rams ? 

 

 

 

To the letter amen brother 

[Mr Tibbs]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

He played for them ten and a half years ago.

I bet 23 year old me is better at football than 12 year old me 

Not to mention him helping them win promotion and winning their young player of the year award....

[NottsRam77]

18 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Because he's saved our bacon far more often.

Probably no more so than a centre half that can actually read the game and situations and put out fires before they happen, pro active defending instead of re active.

proactive is what the best defenders do, they see and read out danger, tomori reacts 

and more often than not atm he’s reacting way way too late, goals today case in point.

earlier in the season he was reacting and as u say his pace got him out of jail and some plaudits, duly so

but he’s a large part of the reason we are inept at keeping clean sheets 

nit pinning it soley on him obviously, we defend as a team and those around him and infront at times are doing us absolutely no favours

I’m not losing site of the season, where we are as a club. I crave stability and want frank to be given time to put his plan in place, I realise this won’t happen over night but I really don’t rate tomori 

he loses concentration and focus way way way too easily

probably down to lack of experience hence why he’s with us to iron out those floors, it’s just horribly frustrating 

[Ruud Aralliss]

7 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Franks had a mare today, proper mare from start to finish. Doubts starting to creep in over him imo, making the same mistakes again and again

Not just frank remember, there’s a whole squad of people making decisions.

[Alph]

22 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Probably no more so than a centre half that can actually read the game and situations and put out fires before they happen, pro active defending instead of re active.

proactive is what the best defenders do, they see and read out danger, tomori reacts 

and more often than not atm he’s reacting way way too late, goals today case in point.

earlier in the season he was reacting and as u say his pace got him out of jail and some plaudits, duly so

but he’s a large part of the reason we are inept at keeping clean sheets 

nit pinning it soley on him obviously, we defend as a team and those around him and infront at times are doing us absolutely no favours

I’m not losing site of the season, where we are as a club. I crave stability and want frank to be given time to put his plan in place, I realise this won’t happen over night but I really don’t rate tomori 

he loses concentration and focus way way way too easily

probably down to lack of experience hence why he’s with us to iron out those floors, it’s just horribly frustrating 

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

I rate Tomori. I do agree he's made a lot of errors but I also thinks he's saved us more often and by 'us' I don't mean himself. I mean he's covered LB's, Keogh, Carson and when in possession him and Keogh have constantly tried to carry out Frank's message. I rate Curtis Davies as a head and kick man but I don't think he sets us up well in possession and while he wouldn't make the errors Tomori has made I don't think he'd cover Malone, Keogh etc as well. And he's a solid defender. 

I find the full backs far more frustrating. I find Bogle more of a frustration than Tomori. He has more skill on the ball than what he's showing and he just can't get his distances, timing right to stop crosses. 

I don't think our CB's are protected well tbh. You've got both full backs that will let crosses in too often. You've got sticky feet Carson, who while an excellent shot stopper and good positioning for making saves, he just won't command anything other than a 80/20 chance inside his area. If he's in doubt then he holds.

And Huddlestone, Bryson and Mount. The first two if they don't win the ball within a second of the opponent reaching it then they will get left for dead. Huddlestone needs to get hold of them because he can't move after they've passed him and Bryson is rarely more than a terrier. Now he's getting on a bit he's not able to keep pressure on. 

Our CB's are spread thin imo and carry too much responsibility. Actually the back 6 carry too much altogether. The CB's don't get support, the full backs don't get enough support from wingers, Hudds and the defenders are now tasked with picking out the front 6 while they have relative freedom to do stepovers. 

The exception being Marriott who does his tasks. The rest seem to lack cohesion. Mount is a super player but kind of a luxury. Lawrence is a luxury. Jozefzoon is a luxury. Bryson is a passenger. 

For me there's not enough meat in anything they do. It's all a bit carefree. They need partnerships and discipline. Good players and in some games they really look alive. In others they're the audience 

[RamNut]

Having had time to think about it......that second half was reminiscent of the games under mac2 when we were shipping goals. And its the same cause. Many moons ago i posted a video of our home defeat to watford under mac and showed how when we split the two central defenders left and right, they can no longer cover for each other and we become wide open down the middle. Thats what happened with the all important second goal imo. Its not about individuals. You could change tomori for davies, shotton, shackell, albentosa, uncle tom cobbley and all and the second goal would still happen because the central defenders are too far apart.

I also think it was a mistake to withdraw huddz. I know he's a big girls blouse but that left us even more exposed. At first i thought it was going to be evans for bryson which might have strengthened us a bit. After that we seemed to lose all shape.

Perhaps waggy would have given bogle a bit more protection. Stevens and o'connell as the extra man are a real handful. 

Ultimately we were opened up like a kipper and offered little in reply other than a tremendous free kick worthy of the great alan hinton. 

Food for thought. 

[RiddingsRam]

3 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Following today I wouldn’t be surprised to see this line up at Norwich 

                   Roos

wisdom Keogh Pearce tomori 

                Johnson 

        Mount.   Bryson 

waghorn.  Marriott wilson 

Guessing you've had a day in the ale ? Not a chance to is will start over Carson , not saying I'm all out pro Carson , I'm not but Roos is nowhere near .

[Ruud Aralliss]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

Well that was actually a great game of football in which Derby looked by far the better side for at least the last 30 minutes of the first half, and more or less held their own in the second until the second Blades goal. At which point our heads went down, and effectively the game was gone from then onwards.

Sheffield United played to their strengths, and ended up looking a good side, but unfortunately those strengths include a number of the dark arts. They weren't physically violent, apart from the regulation heavy challenges on Mount and Wilson, but were rather more subtle. Every challenge for a header in the first half involved putting an arm over the Derby player's shoulder, neck or head to prevent the Ram from jumping high enough, and virtually every tackle meant leaving the foot in. There will be a lot of bruises on Derby players tonight. And of course there were very few free-kicks to cut this out, at least until the second half.

They are also a very mardy side, whinging about any decision they didn't get. This is what got Keogh booked after our goal - he went to pick the ball up and get on the the game, while their keeper was doing his best to hold the ball away from him. After the resulting melee the Blades players were hounding the ref to show the card, and he duly obeyed. Sadly, he had got every card decision right up till then. They tried to get Keogh carded a couple of times after then as well, but didn't succeed. But the turning had started. Marriott was given offside twice in quick succession. For the first, he was well onside, and for the second, his shoulder was perhaps a millimeter or two offside as he leaned to turn. Whatever happened to the "give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking player"? By contrast, in the second half the same, pernickerty linesman allowed Sharp and McGoldrick to go offside by are yard or two on three occasions in total, without the hint of a flag.

The penalty/red card for Tomori incident, which the Sky guys were wetting themselves about for hours afterwards was a non-event. My daughter commented at the time that if Tomori had simply coughed, McGoldrick would have gone down in just the same way. There was virtually no contact, and the ball was already going away from him, so no red card either. Then we had the back-pass. It clearly came of the defender, so Carson was absolutely right to pick the ball up, although he should have been wiser and simply given it the "Row Z" treatment. Needless to say the ref was under a barrage of protests to give the offence, and he duly booked Carson, totally wrongly. He also booked Nugent who had been having a right go at the fourth official. quite justifiably. The creep then simply radio'd to the ref, who by now had completely lost control of the game. Strangely, apart from the two melees, the game was never nasty or violent.

However, we were undone by three lots of catastrophic defending, which consistently is our undoing. And we contributed further to our downfall by letting our heads go down after the second goal. Whether or not we were drained by the constant roughing up of the Blades' challenges doesn't matter. Our heads shouldn't go down. And apart from arming himself with a sub-machine gun to point at Frank and Jody's throat, what has Waghorn got to do to get a fair chance in the side? Bringing him on with only 4 minutes to go is ridiculous.

Still. its only Norwich and Middlesborough next, followed by Leeds. Should by easy then.

The last paragraph I completely agree with. But everything else is the championship, (Derby) deal with it! 

Tamori poor tonight, Mount cannot hide behind being’man Marked’ forever. His decision making for the last few games to me smacks of someone who thinks more about his stats than the team scoring. Carson?? Pulls off a world class save in the first then in the second, well , we all saw it in slow motion almost. Also later on sharp, I think missed another sitter with his head that’s Carson was nowhere it, what’s going on there? Dribbling out to almost the half way line?

and breath!

bryson , Tamori, Wisdom , Carson.... well as a team - poor

 

[Ruud Aralliss]

7 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said:

We've spent 15 mill. How much more do we need?!

Investment isn't the problem, we've had plenty of that.

15 million is peanuts. Unless of course you already have a side worthy. Or academy players that haven’t already been snatched away at 16-17 yrs old 

[RamNut]

4 hours ago, Mafiabob said:

We are so naive and nice at the minute.... no edge to us, and teams know they can bully and irritate 

Referee had a shocker though. If he did his job then their rough house tactics would have been penalised. The lino looked like the classic homer. Surprised he didn't give the non-pen tbh; that would have put the top hat on it. 

[Ruud Aralliss]

1 hour ago, Turnstile said:

Bristol city fans used to laugh and cry at Keogh long before Wembley.

And?

so what?

 

[lrm14]

4 hours ago, Chester40 said:

Carson 6. Great save, then very slow to dive for the goal.  Came off his line more but kicking was poor.

Tomori 3. Lost his man so many times it was mind boggling. Great on the floor, unfortunately they kept crossing it and he seems to fall asleep then.

Keogh 7 My MOM. Brave, good on the ball, no major errors except playing them onside for a goal. Action man who led by example, people criticising him after that performance are just biased 

Bogle  6 - looked good going forward but gets brain freeze when he has to release the ball...bit sloppy second half.

Wisdom 3 - positionally appalling. Watch him again and he is all over the place.  Lacking in confidence.  Never really  gets forward anyway.

Huddlestone 5. Not his greatest game. Very pedestrian even by his standards. Great touch but by-passed at times.

Mount 5. Sloppy, needed too many touches first half. Grew into the game before the general collapse then anonymous. 

Wilson 6. Amazing goal. Busy but never really imposed himself.

FloJo - 2. Trying in vain to think of anything he did. Really poor.

Bryson  4.  Average.  Mediocre.  Just not quite at it.

Marriott 5. Worried how often I have thought, he has done well by working hard but with no real joy....or is the ball just not sticking?

Frank Lampard 5 - Staggered Waghorn didn't start...that Flojo and Bryson stayed on so long and he got 5mins. Wisdom left back? ..please not again!

Need a big reaction. 

Agree with a lot of it but aren't you being too harsh on Wisdom there? He was playing out of position with almost 0 protection from Jozefzoon against a team that really likes to double up against fullbacks. I don't recall much getting through his side either so to give him a 3 considering all those factors seems really unfair, especially when you give Bogle a 6 when one of the goals came from a cross on his side.

[Ruud Aralliss]

7 hours ago, Owd miner said:

I reckon Keough thinks that if he acts the hard man it covers up the fact he's not up ta mark 

Read that back to yourself.

no?

The hard man comment verges on complete idiocy. Hope for your own sake it was meant ironically  

?

[Bigfella]

9 hours ago, Owd miner said:

I reckon Keough thinks that if he acts the hard man it covers up the fact he's not up ta mark 

He’s better at football than you are with your “hilarious” Derbyshire accent

[CapeTownRams]

10 hours ago, wingfieldram said:

Well, that was the most inept, excruciating and embarrassing second half performance that I have witnessed in some time.

I was seated very low down in the away end so it was difficult to see which of our players were constantly giving the ball away at the other end, but, boy oh boy, we looked bad.

Full credit to Sheff Utd......they looked well organised and up for it.  Credit to their fans as well.....they made a lot of noise in the second half and were their twelfth man.

Driving back from Sheffield, I caught Franks interview on Radio Derby. he seemed to get proper mardy when asked why he brought on Nugent and Evans before Waghorn. It was a perfectly reasonable question that didnt warrant such a narky reply.

Sorry to be so negative, but that second half performance really knocked the stuffing out of me. I fear that the only way to recover my mood is to crack open the Theakstons Old Peculiar that is currently sat in the kitchen.

Note to the happy clappers......I am normally quite a positive fan.....honest|

 

Unfortunately it’s a real habit of Frank’s...don’t ever have the audacity to ask him why he did or didn’t do something.....he knows best under all circumstances. The fact that Waghorn should have started or at the very least come on at half time seems lost on him...

[Chester40]

6 hours ago, lrm14 said:

Agree with a lot of it but aren't you being too harsh on Wisdom there? He was playing out of position with almost 0 protection from Jozefzoon against a team that really likes to double up against fullbacks. I don't recall much getting through his side either so to give him a 3 considering all those factors seems really unfair, especially when you give Bogle a 6 when one of the goals came from a cross on his side.

Some fair points  ....

I would say it was luck/circumstance  rather than skill on his part though. Plus he doesnt  really commit himself going forward so on the counter the other side is usually more exposed.

There were several occasions where they were pressing when we were all saying 'where the hell is Wisdom' and he was ambling across from centre back as other's covered for him. 

Maybe I am being unfair about him because he just has regressed so far! He doesn't look like a footballer anymore. He looked cumbersome, negative and half hearted....

[Turnstile]

7 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said:

And?

so what?

 

he was no good for them 7 /8 years ago and still no good.

[Turnstile]

8 hours ago, cannable said:

He played for them ten and a half years ago.

I bet 23 year old me is better at football than 12 year old me 

Just a cheap clough  journey man signing who has never improved.