Steve How Hard? Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Boycie said: Ban puns and I’m flouncing off anorl!! I'm thinking of giving this forum a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Lambchop said: It also doesn't exist when it comes to expressing views that are hateful towards protected groups. The usual people will roll their eyes at me for saying it, but that is the law, and that is the issue here. I linked the relevant legal passages in the other thread, for those who are unclear. It's not that we can't discuss certain subjects without arguing that is the problem, it's that the forum can't moderate a legal fine line on certain views that are being expressed. That's my understanding, anyway. It's both in all honesty, but I will admit legal issues concern me more than member squabbles. The problem with the law is that it's so outdated and very very grey, including the pages you linked to. I recently spoke with my solicitor with regards to the new GDPR law and they were still trying to figure that one out themselves. We all know football is a game of opinions, Keogh is either a top Championship defender or a two footed Wally that needs to walk away from the game depending on which member you listen to. Away from football comments in this topic show how differently people can the view things, earlier it was claimed a clique was on place on the forum, few posts later praising the forum for not having a clique. Now the forum is too sanitised, yet I've had members close their accounts because it's become too toxic. Which is it? It's a big problem with electronic communication in general, lost count of the arguments with my girlfriend I have unwittingly started by a light hearted text....even with an emoji. What would you like for dinner, whatever.....be like that then, pardon? We've all been there don't deny it. As the person who is responsible for providing this platform, hate speech is one can of worms I am particularly concerned over and for good reason. Between 2011 and 2016, 2500 people in London were arrested for offensive posts online. One faced a two year legal battle over a joke. A joke that was probably no worse than you would hear out of a comedians mouth on stage, debate that one out, why is it ok to crack a joke on stage but not online? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html This is not a small forum, but it does not have the legal team behind it that your Facebook's and Twitter have. This is a very real email I received just over 3 years ago from our server providers with regards to posts on this forum. And I didn't ignore them, simply did not receive. It's not a game. It's very real and this platform is under very real laws which are not clear. Feel like I am repeating myself but I really have to stress that if people feel that this forum prevents their freedom of speech or is too sanitised as it stays within the law I can only apologise, but I have no intention of jeopardising the future of dcfcfans.uk especially over topics that are way way way away from football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: The reason I posted so much in the pub was because it was a rare opportunity to talk about stuff with people who didn't necessarily agree with you. And because we were all here primarily as Rams fans it always felt like that anchored some mutual respect despite any disagreements. It's hard to find that platform online. Political forums are either echo chambers or toxic bullying arenas I was away for two weeks and completely missed the incident that caused the rule change, so I don't know what was said or how bad it got but I can only assume it was my absence as the calming voice of reason that was the problem ? It's a shame, but I understand it and it's only a website... Great post Stiv. You and I have had some excellent political exchanges of views ( and with @GboroRam) even at their most heated I’d like to think we did just that .. exchange views and tried to justify them rationally. And, I have a sense in the process we have each seen just a little of the others argument and acknowledged some truth even if it doesn’t quite match our own stance. It does feel now, a bit like one of those school punishments where everyone gets put in detention, but in David’s defence, he is the land lord and as such is entitled to make the rules. .. it’s a pity because the echo chamber / mudslinging forums are pretty pointless places to go if you want some mental stimulation as opposed to a blazing partisan row ! .. knowing that the person you argue with has something in common with you is a brilliant referee and defuser of difficult situations. Pity .. and to @PistoldPete2 .. I get your point. I’m looking at it as a shop where they stopped stocking an item I liked but the rest of the merchandise is still good so I’m sticking around. Had it been the local newspaper my view would have been the same as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: Taking a break is the secret.. I have had a couple in my time. I don't post too much in the main Rams forum now, as my views on certain things are way off what I read. I bite now and again but I am only human. I tended to stay away from certain topics in the Pub but again strayed on occasion. The shame is that some threads were actually quite interesting and informative. On occasions the BREXIT thread was excellent. Anyway as long as we don't lose the 'What are you eating tonight' thread or the 'Watches to dream for' thread. I am okay. We could ban puns though but @Steve How Hard? & @Boycie could struggle to contribute going forward. So can we agree Sex, Politics, religion & Puns should be added? Indeed. The problem is that without the banality of threads about watches and people's tea, there would be virtually nothing left. All that would remain are the threads filled with tactical geniuses hoping to be proved wrong. The cry-baby ban-everything-I don't agree-with attitude has permeated through to laws that criminalise whatever one person finds 'offensive' and now we are all compliant in perpetuating that on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Indeed. The problem is that without the banality of threads about watches and people's tea, there would be virtually nothing left. All that would remain are the threads filled with tactical geniuses hoping to be proved wrong. The cry-baby ban-everything-I don't agree-with attitude has permeated through to laws that criminalise whatever one person finds 'offensive' and now we are all compliant in perpetuating that on this forum. Yet the very reason this forum was created was to discuss Derby County, put opinions across over players, signings, managers, tactics. That banality is why the dcfcfans.uk domain was purchased and not politicalfans.uk or religiousfans.uk. I wouldn't join a gym just to use the vending machine to buy fizzy drinks from and mock those walking through the door looking for a workout. The vending machine is there to serve drinks after the workout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: The cry-baby ban-everything-I don't agree-with attitude has permeated through to laws that criminalise whatever one person finds 'offensive' and now we are all compliant in perpetuating that on this forum. Is disagreeing with racism a cry baby attitude? Or any other form of hatred directed towards you simply for being who you are? It's telling that the people who hold this view are the ones who have never been on the receiving end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 i'm amazed that some of the posts in the mccann thread were allowed if offensive and legally dubious posts are not allowed. nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, David said: Yet the very reason this forum was created was to discuss Derby County, put opinions across over players, signings, managers, tactics. That banality is why the dcfcfans.uk domain was purchased and not politicalfans.uk or religiousfans.uk. I wouldn't join a gym just to use the vending machine to buy fizzy drinks from and mock those walking through the door looking for a workout. The vending machine is there to serve drinks after the workout. That suggests those that took part in the politics threads had no interaction with the football ones. Secondly, we have threads on other clubs, other sports which also aren’t in you stated remit. Surely they should go too. I also wonder whether you would go out with friends with a list of proscribed topics. I certainly wouldn’t. I’ve always looked at the forum as a community. Clearly I got that wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, David said: Yet the very reason this forum was created was to discuss Derby County, put opinions across over players, signings, managers, tactics. That banality is why the dcfcfans.uk domain was purchased and not politicalfans.uk or religiousfans.uk. I wouldn't join a gym just to use the vending machine to buy fizzy drinks from and mock those walking through the door looking for a workout. The vending machine is there to serve drinks after the workout. False dichotomy is just that - false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Is disagreeing with racism a cry baby attitude? Or any other form of hatred directed towards you simply for being who you are? It's telling that the people who hold this view are the ones who have never been on the receiving end of it. Banning people or deleting posts of people who disagree you is a cry baby thing to do. It also shows a paucity of debating skills to shut down debate rather than engage with it. And I don’t think anyone should take lectures from you on criticising people for who they are. You are one of the worst for that. I’ve probably broken the rules with this, so I’ll expect a ban rather than a refutation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: That suggests those that took part in the politics threads had no interaction with the football ones. Secondly, we have threads on other clubs, other sports which also aren’t in you stated remit. Surely they should go too. I also wonder whether you would go out with friends with a list of proscribed topics. I certainly wouldn’t. I’ve always looked at the forum as a community. Clearly I got that wrong. All I am saying is the core reason I would have thought anyone joined this forum was to discuss Derby County. Everything else just improves the experience. I have always compared forums to pubs so he comes what will probably be a poor analogy because I'm great at those. One pub will not suit all, some prefer Standing Order, others the Brunswick, you choose the pub which you enjoy having a pint in. The main reason you go to the pub is for a pint though, it feels like some have forgot they came for a pint or just looking for the punch up and throw a few chairs around. As the landlord, I have to protect the licence otherwise the council can revoke our licence to trade and doors will be shut. Everyone that came in, enjoyed a pint without causing any trouble will be left trying to find other pubs. Remember when the DET shut it's doors? Your post came across as mocking those that came to the pub to have a pint, "tactical geniuses" which I'm guessing is down to your views on posts at 2pm on Saturday afternoons. I can semi share your views with, but at the same time if all we do is nod in agreement with every selection, formation or signing we'll be serving flat watered down Fosters only. I want to provide the drinks, the pool table, music, darts board, weekly quiz, everything that makes a great pub, but we need our clientele to behave as adults, not a bunch of 17 year olds downing their first pints. Until then then the darts board has a padlock on it. Which may be removed if things settle down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I’ve always looked at the forum as a community. Clearly I got that wrong. As with all communities they have laws, or rules and regulations, this one is no different. As with all communities the laws change, some people won't agree with them, but they are put in place to try to help the community into a better place. I'm sure when the murder law was put into place there were people that opposed it, along with using a mobile while driving, the age consent for marriage, alcohol limits, smoking in public places etc etc etc. And maybe instead of everyone moaning about it, trying push the boundaries, we just see where the forum takes us, it may be a case that it's natural progression brings back some of the topics that are currently not allowed, it may take us to a more peaceful forum where more people enjoy more topics, people who stay out of the pub section as it is littered with political threads. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Banning people or deleting posts of people who disagree you is a cry baby thing to do. It also shows a paucity of debating skills to shut down debate rather than engage with it. Paucity of understanding on your part. It's nothing to do with disagreement or being offended, it's to do with protecting people's freedom to live their lives without prejudice or harassment. It's been explained enough times, it couldn't be any clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 At the end of day, I have always viewed the pub as very much @David 's boozer. He can bin topics if he wishes. Many is the time I have looked at the political stuff in the pub and been quite shocked by the vitriol. A couple of times I have been surprised it hasn't gone viral on other platforms, and the whole site be shut down as it was brought into disrepute. I think I would have bricked it a few times if I had been a Mod. Some the best posts I have written in the pub I have never posted as I realized an argument was already down a dead end, and so just deleted them. I think things started to get a bit stupid when people were pasting in links to other sites/material, rather than actually express themselves in text. You wouldn't go for a chat in the pub and take print offs of some bloke's PhD, would you? (maybe you would ?). Anyway, I hope no one leaves as that would be a real shame. Things will settle down I sure. Perhaps there are things we agree just not talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: At the end of day, I have always viewed the pub as very much @David 's boozer. He can bin topics if he wishes. Cor blimey, just had a horrible vision of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 And if you don't fancy the pub, who's up for a club? Pink Flamingo anyone? Love, Life & Unity. C'mon sing up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Lambchop said: Paucity of understanding on your part. It's nothing to do with disagreement or being offended, it's to do with protecting people's freedom to live their lives without prejudice or harassment. It's been explained far more than enough times, it couldn't be any clearer. I really don't want to get into one of these pointless debates, but any chance you could give it a rest for once? By continually repeating your view with the conviction that you are right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, you're exhibiting the very behaviour that prompted the new rules. David's forum, David's rules - if he's in danger of getting sued or else losing advertisers and so not able to keep the site going, he has every right to impose whatever regulations he wants - follow them and keep posting or else move on to somewhere that people will better appreciate your pearls of wisdom - but keep pushing your own agenda and you'll find this a lonely place as the rest of us follow Pete out of the door..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: And I don’t think anyone should take lectures from you on criticising people for who they are. You are one of the worst for that. I did thing her use of the term 'protected groups' rather than 'protected characteristics' was quite telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Secondly, we have threads on other clubs, other sports which also aren’t in you stated remit. Surely they should go too. I bet me and Lamchop could have a good long chat about the Serena Williams vs Osaka US Open final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, StringerBell said: I bet me and Lamchop could have a good long chat about the Serena Williams vs Osaka US Open final. Sports chat is a allowed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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