Patience from fans...

[Mr Tibbs]

9 minutes ago, Topram said:

It’s embarrassing, passing it around the back waiting for that opening the groans come the players rush it doesn’t work more groans, southstand is full of em! More groans that a good atmosphere! 

As is the rest of the ground. Was awful in both North and West stands too, only difference is the South stand at least tried to back their team. 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Its too easy to keep passing back to the centre halves.

there were times yesterday when the centre half played it forward to a deep midfielder who immediately smacked it straight back to the centre half. I can't see any benefit in that at all.

there were also two occasions when we finally got the ball forward to mount and lawrence and they also turned and smashed it all the way back to the centre halves.

we've got to be a bit better than that. 

 

Absolutely agree. Unless it's a hospital pass, the receiver finds himself closed down quickly or it creates a space for the passer, I've never understood this habit of returning the ball straight back to where it came from. 

[DCFC1976]

The get it forward brigade were really doing my head in last night. Granted that at times it was slow and the pass could perhaps have gone forward earlier but it is work in progress. We generally kept the ball well and at times the central midfielders could have turned on the ball instead of going back but I think that is due to a bit of lack of confidence at the moment which will hopefully get better?

I like Mount and Bryson but not sure if they are suited to playing together, they both seem to want to run away from the ball instead of showing for it. There were times last night where the centre circle was empty as both had made runs and Ledley had to go back. Perhaps Ledley should have been in that space to take the ball off the centre halves at bit higher up the pitch?

[Alph]

Agree 100% on the fans. 

We really need to make sure we have a higher reset point. I'd love to see our DM's run free but our wingers lose the ball too easily. And they lose it even easier if there's no DM backing up the play as kind of a reset point. If the DM overlaps the ball then the reset point will be right back to the CB's. 

You want to be looking to ignore the DM pass as much as possible but it's better to go back to him than lose the ball or go all the way back to Keogh, Tomori. 

I liked the look of Evans it's a shame he's just. I like Ledley but he doesn't really fit the DM role. He's a good player that's having a good go there. But it's not quite right.

I think Mount playing as a second striker doesn't help. If he dropped in a bit it would just help create little angles and triangles to ease the press on us. Sure you stand less chance of winning the second ball if you go long, because he's dropped in, but you can't have the best of every style. 

It can be a bit frustrating watching us reset all the way at central defence. I can understand the temptation to groan a bit. Especially when we lose the ball and our DM is nowhere in sight. 

Last night I felt confident all night. The full backs defended really well and that's the only way Ipswich were looking to get in. Crosses. With them nullified it did feel like the worst that could happen was a draw. 

[cannable]

2 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Frank hasn't bigged Mount up much at all. All he's said is that he's a talent that improves us, which he's said about all our signings.

I think if anyone's to blame for bigging Mount up it's that damn Gareth Southgate for having him train with England before the World Cup.

The general population seemed pretty settled on Mount being a next big thing a little before he signed for us.

I agree though, he must feel some pressure from it. Just not Lampard that's to blame, for me.

Lampard literally said words to the affect of “I don’t really want to say this but [Mount’ll] be a top player.”

[SaintRam]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

Lampard literally said words to the affect of “I don’t really want to say this but [Mount’ll] be a top player.”

Yeah, but he hasn't bigged up the quality that he possesses now, is more my point.

He being a top player in the future is general opinion.

What I meant was that there were lots of Chelsea folks and others in general saying (publicly) that he should be playing at a higher level than the Champ and some suggesting he should be playing for Chelsea. That's what I consider "bigging up".

[mwram1973]

[cheron85]

5 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

... 2 home games in and it’s already disappearing. We don’t need the ‘attack attack attack’ chants. We don’t need the groans when the centre backs pass it between them. They’re doing what they’ve been told by Lampard who knows a lot more about football than we do! 

 

4 hours ago, Bigfella said:

Absolutely agree with this. I sit in the West Stand and people were moaning throughout the game about passing at the back - who are players(usually Keogh) to pass to if team mates are not in a position to receive the ball?

We also have one moron who just shouts “Forward” every time we get the ball - he may not last the season!

Agreed - Went with an old family friend and he kept complaining about Bogle only passing backwards - The lad is 18 and had a pretty solid outing at RB! If all he does in a game is not cost us a goal I don't need him to do anything else - If every single pass he makes is backwards but he never gives the ball away I'm totally fine with that - Let the more experienced players take on the responsibility of making play happen.

[Millenniumram]

Some fans were really getting on my nerves last night even more so than normal! I don’t understand what some fans think the game of football is played like nowadays, the amount of cry’s to “lob it to Nugent and get a knockdown to the by line’ while Keogh was on the ball and Nugent had the whole Ipswich defence around him were ridiculous! We’re not bleeding Stoke in the prem trying to get a bit of luck to beat superior opponents, we’re trying to play a style of football that can consistently get results. And sometimes, when faces with a side like Ipswich who come to defend, you have to pass backwards into a man in space to create some holes in the opposition backline and drive into them.

It just needs a bit of patience sometimes, all the shouting of GERRIT FORWARD does it make the defenders panic and lose the ball, which as we know in this system can spell disaster when men are committed forward and the opposition is pressing. We were keeping hold of the ball much better last night, which is why we gave away less stupid chances than previous games, if we have possession they can’t hurt us, only we can hurt ourselves. Sure there were times when going backwards wasn’t the right option, especially from the fullbacks, but I put that down to nerves and a lack of options from midfield- something that does need to be resolved. Proper CDM in there and things will be better, for now fans just need to be patient if we’re keeping hold of the ball!

[BathRam72]

6 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

... 2 home games in and it’s already disappearing. We don’t need the ‘attack attack attack’ chants. We don’t need the groans when the centre backs pass it between them. They’re doing what they’ve been told by Lampard who knows a lot more about football than we do! 

This is a complete upheaval in philosophy. The hardest part isn’t finding the pass forward, it’s  the movement as the forward pass goes in to create an instant option for a the receiving player so it doesn’t have to go straight back. 

The players will get there but after just over a season of playing the percentages and hitting the channels it will take time. That’s not even including the 9 new players to be integrated. 

Stay positive, don’t be too harsh on individual errors (including Keogh) the defence is being asked to do a lot here. It will come good, it’ll take about 10-12 games for the players to really understand what is expected of them and when. It’ll then take a few more games for them to get good at it. 

This season will be a late push for the play offs type of season where the performances increase as the season goes on. The sort of season a lot of us would have accepted last year.  

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments, however I would like to also add that in addition to the 9 new players, there are also a handful of youth/U23's who have had very little exposure at this level - who also need to learn the ropes. I have no doubt it will all come.

The problem is that most of the boo boys and groaner's are probably not on this forum and getting the message out to them would be very tough.

I noticed that Lampard put out a statement on giving the team time, hopefully this message will get through to some of the amoebae that get into PP. .

[HorsforthRam]

No problem at all passing it back when there’s nothing on, however, on a few occasions, the receiver could have turned when an opposition player didn’t follow him. The players need to be careful that the back pass doesn’t become automatic

[Topram]

4 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said:

As is the rest of the ground. Was awful in both North and West stands too, only difference is the South stand at least tried to back their team. 

Yes but those stands are pretty much empty, the last few years it’s been the south stand which provides the atmosphere, I moved out of it last year and you can tell where the groans start, can’t even remember us singing last night! Need to get behind the team

[angieram]

I have one little exception to this patience malarkey - that's when we take throws in their half and the throws are going back to our defenders.

I just think the accuracy you can get with a throw and the no offside ought to mean we can find someone further forward that can then get in behind.

Is that harsh?

Let me know and I'll stop commenting on it - I do like a little moan about it!

[jono]

I was very happy last night. We kept the ball and when that happens you can’t get hurt. Patience .. wait for the opportunity, move to create one. It will come together.

There were some instances where the receiving player could have turned and gone forward - I thought Bryson was being extra careful a bit too often and there was a break in the second half on the left flank and I wanted Fozzie to bomb on but he checked back .. yet these are decisions in the moment and there is no way I am getting on anyone’s back early days with 2 wins on the board it would be insane to be too critical. Anyway .. I go to games to shout support for our players. Yeah, post match you can chuck ideas around but when the battle is on you back your men almost unconditionally. 

[LazloW]

21 minutes ago, angieram said:

I have one little exception to this patience malarkey - that's when we take throws in their half and the throws are going back to our defenders.

I just think the accuracy you can get with a throw and the no offside ought to mean we can find someone further forward that can then get in behind.

Is that harsh?

Let me know and I'll stop commenting on it - I do like a little moan about it!

Not harsh.  Again, it’s about risks and decision making. Less risk so why not go for it.

A bugbear of mine is the free kick in the middle of the pitch which rather than putting in the box we tap sideways and try to ‘build’.  Drives me mad.  You have a free go at getting the ball into a dangerous area but you decide to go sideways and let everybody come out.  Not sure the extent we have done this with FL so far but it bugs me every time (we did it lit last year IIRC).

i know I’m old fashioned.  I should say though that, as per my earlier post, i’m not anti-possession per se or passing it backwards/sideways but we should be looking for the positive and progressive pass, not always taking the safe option by default (which I’m sure led to Clement’s downfall)... but if that is all that is on, do it.

[jono]

26 minutes ago, angieram said:

I have one little exception to this patience malarkey - that's when we take throws in their half and the throws are going back to our defenders.

I just think the accuracy you can get with a throw and the no offside ought to mean we can find someone further forward that can then get in behind.

Is that harsh?

Let me know and I'll stop commenting on it - I do like a little moan about it!

Angie, I think we have been historically bad over the last 3 or 4 seasons about taking full advantage from throw ins. Done properly you’ve almost got a set piece .. we should use them to full advantage, we don’t do it often enough. 

[Sparkle]

31 minutes ago, jono said:

I was very happy last night. We kept the ball and when that happens you can’t get hurt. Patience .. wait for the opportunity, move to create one. It will come together.

There were some instances where the receiving player could have turned and gone forward - I thought Bryson was being extra careful a bit too often and there was a break in the second half on the left flank and I wanted Fozzie to bomb on but he checked back .. yet these are decisions in the moment and there is no way I am getting on anyone’s back early days with 2 wins on the board it would be insane to be too critical. Anyway .. I go to games to shout support for our players. Yeah, post match you can chuck ideas around but when the battle is on you back your men almost unconditionally. 

It’s not easy for Forsyth to bomb forward having Lawrence as his natural cover player and when Malone plays again both him and Lawrence will be nowhere to be seen from a defensive point of view

then again looking at the players we are using and have a 352 maybe the way to go

[Mr Tibbs]

2 hours ago, Topram said:

Yes but those stands are pretty much empty, the last few years it’s been the south stand which provides the atmosphere, I moved out of it last year and you can tell where the groans start, can’t even remember us singing last night! Need to get behind the team

Disagree completely mate. There's what, 7k in the south stand? That leaves about 16k in the other stands. Was sat in hospitality in the NW corner last night for a change and it's not a case of the South Stand starting the groaning, the whole ground is literally groaning every time a ball goes backwards. The only vocal support from the team comes from the South Stand, you could hear them last night despite it not being rocking. I don't sit in the South Stand for what it's worth but I just don't understand the criticism of them when there's literally 15k plus fans just as bad at getting on the players back. There seems to be some fascination with having a dig at them over the other stands, I just don't understand it. 

[Ambitious]

I do find it quite hilarious, the general consensus was that we would be patient providing that we start to play possession football again. It's been a mindset change up to now. The fans, however, have already forgotten that they promised to be patient. I'm not exactly sure why either. I don't think a 2-0 win against Ipswich is something to be sniffed at, personally, especially considering how comfortable the game was. Lampard has actioned the main 'issues' and introduced a few academy prospects - Bogle in particular doing well in his two league starts. 

I've always had an issue with certain aspects of our fanbase, but I'm not under any illusion it doesn't go on everywhere else. It's just the short term-ism of supporters now. Lampard's literally 5 competitive games into his managerial career - 3 wins & 2 losses. 60% win rate. 

People need to give their head a shake.

[SaintRam]

9 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do find it quite hilarious, the general consensus was that we would be patient providing that we start to play possession football again. It's been a mindset change up to now. The fans, however, have already forgotten that they promised to be patient. I'm not exactly sure why either. I don't think a 2-0 win against Ipswich is something to be sniffed at, personally, especially considering how comfortable the game was. Lampard has actioned the main 'issues' and introduced a few academy prospects - Bogle in particular doing well in his two league starts. 

I've always had an issue with certain aspects of our fanbase, but I'm not under any illusion it doesn't go on everywhere else. It's just the short term-ism of supporters now. Lampard's literally 5 competitive games into his managerial career - 3 wins & 2 losses. 60% win rate. 

People need to give their head a shake.

Because a lot of people are idiots, and when they "agreed" to show patience they were caught up in the hype and didn't actually believe they would have to. So now they're angry.