Crazy Keogh hating

[Sparkle]

I am not going to read all of this but I will say Keogh has been and stil is our best defender and never has any defender had to do so much in a team

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Who's Dean Ashton?

We could definitely do better than Keogh, but we could do a whole lot worse, believe me. 

What I like about Keogh is the fact he loves our football club as much as we do and you don't get many players like him in the game anymore. 

He makes mistakes just like any other player but for some reason, his mistakes get highlighted a lot more. 

No, honestly, who is Dean Ashton????????

[Lokidoki]

Another year same topic. Keogh is just beyond criticism in this forum. Yet every game he makes at least one stupid error; fails to keep in the correct defensive positions, does not marshal or captain well and needs a good mature player alongside him to be at his best.

I can point out a few times (over the years) I have made the exact same comments, backed with evidence from games. only to face the barrage from the Keogh love squad and for this reason I do not make many comments on this forum any more.

I still stand by what I said a few years back, that we will never ever get promoted with him in the team. This is based on his ability and failings and not on his commitment and drive for the club.

[cannable]

50 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Michael Keane is the better player, but he was nothing impressive at Derby during the time he was here, I'd compare it to when we signed Lingard and Ince, Ince looked the better player for us, but if you look at it now Lingard is clearly better.

I know I’m in the minority but I was really impressed with Keane when we had him. Could bring the ball out, range of passing, good in the air, only think Keogh had on him was pace 

[cannable]

29 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

 

 

He can't I've asked but apparently he's seen better ones at Alfreton Town . He's also got coaching badges so must be a top expert on these things.

I wonder if he’s referring to that donkey Aden Flint 

[IronRam 140.6]

1 hour ago, Xlor said:

There's also a reason we've not progressed and all these said managers have failed and got the sack. If you're happy with a bang average centre half I'll leave you with it. I prefer to watch footballers that can play football.

I'm sick of the Championships best midfielders (Hughes,Ince,Hudds,Mount,Wilsons et al) year after year not actually dominating midfields and then hiding leaving the CB's (Keogh usually) to try and break the line and start an attack.

If he is missing headers and being outmuscled then fair play. 

If he is having to try and thread throughballs and force the play then that should not warrant the stick he gets for it. Its those supposed future England internationals in front of him loafing.

[Bigfella]

1 hour ago, Xlor said:

There's also a reason we've not progressed and all these said managers have failed and got the sack. If you're happy with a bang average centre half I'll leave you with it. I prefer to watch footballers that can play football.

How about that Daniel Ayala from Middlesbrough - he can kick it a long way in the general direction of his forwards.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Okay, if Keogh is so bang average, name a realistic signing that we could make to improve on Keogh? Seeing as Tomori, Shackell, Pearce, Albentosa, Shotton, Whitbread, Buxton were all worse than Keogh. So who are these magical centre halves in the Championship better than him? And better yet, if you prefer footballers that can ''play football'' good luck finding a Championship centre half as comfortable on the ball as Keogh is.

Based on Whoscored, here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than Keogh's 85.1%:

Janson (Leeds), Rodon (Swansea), Chester (Villa), Mepham (Brentford).

 

Here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than 80%:

Cooper (Leeds), Bartley (WBA), Klose (Norwich), Kalas (Bristol), van der Hoorn (Swansea)

 

Here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than 70%:

Hegazi, Dawson (WBA), Webster (Bristol), Egan, Basham & O'Connell (Sheff Utd), Lees & Hector (Sheff Weds), Flint (Boro), Elphick (Villa), Wheater (Bolton), Shawcross (Stoke), Moore (Reading), Davies (Preston)

 

Tomori also falls into the second group.

[Ramarena]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Okay, if Keogh is so bang average, name a realistic signing that we could make to improve on Keogh? Seeing as Tomori, Shackell, Pearce, Albentosa, Shotton, Whitbread, Buxton were all worse than Keogh. So who are these magical centre halves in the Championship better than him? And better yet, if you prefer footballers that can ''play football'' good luck finding a Championship centre half as comfortable on the ball as Keogh is.

This!!!!!!!!

Replacing Keogh with a better player is going to suck 4 million or more out of the transfer budget that could be spent better on other parts of the team!

And that’s IF you can get a better proven player to come here.

That’s why no manager have ventured down this path.......sadly our FM armchair managers don’t have to deal with real world management compromises!

[Lokidoki]

4 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

This!!!!!!!!

Replacing Keogh with a better player is going to suck 4 million or more out of the transfer budget that could be spent better on other parts of the team!

And that’s IF you can get a better proven player to come here.

That’s why no manager have ventured down this path.......sadly our FM armchair managers don’t have to deal with real world management compromises!

yes but think of the losses if we don't replace....

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Based on Whoscored, here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than Keogh's 85.1%:

Janson (Leeds), Rodon (Swansea), Chester (Villa), Mepham (Brentford).

 

Here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than 80%:

Cooper (Leeds), Bartley (WBA), Klose (Norwich), Kalas (Bristol), van der Hoorn (Swansea)

 

Here's a list of all CBs who have a higher rating than Keogh and have a pass rate higher than 70%:

Cooper (Leeds), Hegazi, Dawson (WBA), Webster (Bristol), Egan, Basham & O'Connell (Sheff Utd), Lees & Hector (Sheff Weds), Flint (Boro), Elphick (Villa), Wheater (Bolton), Shawcross (Stoke), Moore (Reading), Davies (Preston)

 

Tomori also falls into the second group.

Removing the bottom group off entirely, because I feel like a rating is very subjective, and seeing players like Wheater and Shawcross is making me cringe.

Of the top group, players vital to teams who are equally a financially strong as we are, I can't name a player on there who I think is better on the ball than Keogh, because you're providing stats without context. Keogh on average players 63 passes a game, James Chester averages 45. It's easy to paint a narrative with out of context stats.

Having watched all those players, I wouldn't say any of them are better ball playing centre halves than Keogh, and that's clearly the style we want to play. Jannson is a good player who always looked a bit awkward with the ball at his feet, yet has better protection in front of him of a more compact Leeds midfield. 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Xlor said:

There's also a reason we've not progressed and all these said managers have failed and got the sack. If you're happy with a bang average centre half I'll leave you with it. I prefer to watch footballers that can play football.

Mate, out of your dozen or so posts, around 10 of them are telling everybody that you don't rate Keogh. So here's the thing - nobody cares. You've said your piece, it's duly noted, like everyone else, you're entitled to your opinion but could you change the feckin record every now and then, or have you nothing else to offer? If any of his detractors, your good self in particular, could offer a single name as a feasible replacement, then your constant whining might be more tolerable, but nobody ever does. Can't think why when according to experts such as yourself and Dean fookin Ashton, he's 'bang average', which by the way, is possibly the most irritating expression known to mankind. 

[sonofmidnight]

Ok I'll say it again. I do not hate Keogh who I rate well as a player who certainly plays his heart out for the club. However how many fans on this site were season tickets in the old days when a certain Dave MacKay was brought to Derby by Brian Clough? Dave Mackay came when Derby werein the old second division and he was an outstanding leader, man motivator and was forever marshalling his troops, gesticulating and keeping them going. I just don't see Keogh doing half as much as a leader and certainly when Derby go into a slump or get careless for spells in the game. I think he could do more. This does not make me a hater. It's just an opinion based on what I've witnessed over the years

 

[Alph]

34 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said:

Ok I'll say it again. I do not hate Keogh who I rate well as a player who certainly plays his heart out for the club. However how many fans on this site were season tickets in the old days when a certain Dave MacKay was brought to Derby by Brian Clough? Dave Mackay came when Derby werein the old second division and he was an outstanding leader, man motivator and was forever marshalling his troops, gesticulating and keeping them going. I just don't see Keogh doing half as much as a leader and certainly when Derby go into a slump or get careless for spells in the game. I think he could do more. This does not make me a hater. It's just an opinion based on what I've witnessed over the years

 

You are comparing him to a Derby legend there though.

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

You are comparing him to a Derby legend there though.

...and not exactly a viable replacement.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

You are comparing him to a Tottenham and Derby legend there though.

FIFY ?

[Alph]

56 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

Another year same topic. Keogh is just beyond criticism in this forum. Yet every game he makes at least one stupid error; fails to keep in the correct defensive positions, does not marshal or captain well and needs a good mature player alongside him to be at his best.

I can point out a few times (over the years) I have made the exact same comments, backed with evidence from games. only to face the barrage from the Keogh love squad and for this reason I do not make many comments on this forum any more.

I still stand by what I said a few years back, that we will never ever get promoted with him in the team. This is based on his ability and failings and not on his commitment and drive for the club.

Or...

Another year same topic. Keogh is just a constant target of blame on this forum. Every game he tries everything to pass through the lines and move the ball quickly. He never plays anyone into danger just to get himself out the poo. He might be a good captain but we haven't got a clue because we have no idea what he says or how he's seen by the other players.

I can point out a few times we've had this same conversation. And for every piece of evidence you can provide of a Keogh error there will be 2 examples of him opening the game up or making blocks and tackles. Yet we have to face threads questioning his leadership like anybody actually has a clue what a good captain looks like and as if you can only organise players if you have the magic elastic on your arm.

I stand by my comments that I don't know if we will or won't get promoted but we've come close twice. But 100% no game has ever been won or lost by one player and certainly no season ever will be either. 

He's one of the better CB's as an all rounder in the league. For what he lacks in the head and kick category he gains in the ball playing department. 

I've seen the solid CB's. Shackell, Barker, Flint and Davies. Yeah, all ok at defending. But create their own work too by being poor with the ball. 

Which CB's have been at Derby in the last 10 years are better. More complete defenders. Suited to the styles of Nigel, Mac, Clement, Wassall, Pearson, Rowett and Lampard. 

Even Rowett and Pearson picked him

[JoeDerby]

I'm not a Keogh hater but Jason Shackell was much better than Keogh. A leader, spoke to the back 4 all game, absolutely marshalled the back line and no surprise that Keogh was at his best when he played with Shacks.

We need a Shackell kind of player in now Davies is injured for a while, the back line has no structure, they're all pulled out of position constantly leaving huge amounts of space in behind us. The problem is not Keogh, the problem is the back 4 missing a calm wise head to control them all.

[Comrade 86]

49 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said:

Ok I'll say it again. I do not hate Keogh who I rate well as a player who certainly plays his heart out for the club. However how many fans on this site were season tickets in the old days when a certain Dave MacKay was brought to Derby by Brian Clough? Dave Mackay came when Derby werein the old second division and he was an outstanding leader, man motivator and was forever marshalling his troops, gesticulating and keeping them going. I just don't see Keogh doing half as much as a leader and certainly when Derby go into a slump or get careless for spells in the game. I think he could do more. This does not make me a hater. It's just an opinion based on what I've witnessed over the years

Well let's get Dave McKay in then shall we or has Rowett nabbed him already? 

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

I'm not a Keogh hater but Jason Shackell was much better than Keogh. A leader, spoke to the back 4 all game, absolutely marshalled the back line and no surprise that Keogh was at his best when he played with Shacks.

We need a Shackell kind of player in now Davies is injured for a while, the back line has no structure, they're all pulled out of position constantly leaving huge amounts of space in behind us. The problem is not Keogh, the problem is the back 4 missing a calm wise head to control them all.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Shackell was poo. Keogh's best performances were next to Curtis. Shackell had crap distribution and was as slow as anybody. The leader thing is garbage too, what kind of leader tells their manager at the time to duck off rather than going over to the fans? Shackell did that.