ramsbottom Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, cosmic said: Is this thread a write-off already? It was a write off at Page 1!!! Think Bris' missus may have declined to take part in 'Date Night' that day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Why are people comparing our loan signings to that of Fulham, Wolves and Watford? Take out the loan signings and those 3 still had miles better squads than what we have. I’d much rather sell Vydra and start the rebuild with permanent signings ie. signing young players who will be here under Lampard for the next four years. You’re deluding yourselves if you think the two loanees are going to sign with us while were still stuck in the Championship, which is a foregone conclusion for the next 2 years because our squad is crap. I’m glad we’ve signed the duo on loan. They’re a hell of a lot better than say Butterfield and Weimann. But they’re not going to push us towards a promotion challenge, they’re not world beaters. The squad is still a horrible mess and we can’t rectify that until summer. But at the very least I was hopeful of putting a few building blocks in place this summer, but a failure to sell Vydra has prevented that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Don't worry, Bris. I've been told that we are buying a few Spanish second division midfield players. After all, they're miles better than Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Why are people comparing our loan signings to that of Fulham, Wolves and Watford? Take out the loan signings and those 3 still had miles better squads than what we have. I’d much rather sell Vydra and start the rebuild with permanent signings ie. signing young players who will be here under Lampard for the next four years. You’re deluding yourselves if you think the two loanees are going to sign with us while were still stuck in the Championship, which is a foregone conclusion for the next 2 years because our squad is crap. I’m glad we’ve signed the duo on loan. They’re a hell of a lot better than say Butterfield and Weimann. But they’re not going to push us towards a promotion challenge, they’re not world beaters. The squad is still a horrible mess and we can’t rectify that until summer. But at the very least I was hopeful of putting a few building blocks in place this summer, but a failure to sell Vydra has prevented that. How do you know? We have to wait and see what impact they have, or are you writing them off as well as the entire season as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said: Why are people comparing our loan signings to that of Fulham, Wolves and Watford? Take out the loan signings and those 3 still had miles better squads than what we have. I’d much rather sell Vydra and start the rebuild with permanent signings ie. signing young players who will be here under Lampard for the next four years. You’re deluding yourselves if you think the two loanees are going to sign with us while were still stuck in the Championship, which is a foregone conclusion for the next 2 years because our squad is crap. I’m glad we’ve signed the duo on loan. They’re a hell of a lot better than say Butterfield and Weimann. But they’re not going to push us towards a promotion challenge, they’re not world beaters. The squad is still a horrible mess and we can’t rectify that until summer. But at the very least I was hopeful of putting a few building blocks in place this summer, but a failure to sell Vydra has prevented that. I didn’t respond to your first post because I thought you might be just stimulating debate, al la GCSE English teacher setting provocative essay subject and sayin “discuss” from your latest post it seems you really do think your OP is a valid opinion. ... sorry I just have to just snort with derision. Selling Vydra for circa 10 million and buying 2-3 hopefuls achieves little .. you just swap a very good striker and flirt with a “possibility” with the all round effect being monetarily probably neutral and at the same time losing you the certainty of a proven finisher. Right now we have an aging squad of upper mid table players ... for little outlay we have added 2 excellent loaners and in the first friendly we have blooded some of our own younger players who are “building blocks” that are all ready on site. ... we haven’t spent any heavy money but we still have last seasons star player. The pain of hanging on to some “oldsters” is short term and will go away. In realistic terms for a loss making club ( like every other champ club ) what I have seen makes sound sporting and financial sense. the old pros on the books will help the new ones develop and look to be part of something growing which might lift their own performances and sale price over the coming months. Let’s just say Martin, Hudds, Ledley, Bryson all get a huge inject of form aided by these young starlets and suddenly another wannabe Rowett style gamble club decides to invest in some oldsters ? Then we’ll recoup some cash that we would never have hoped for from aging legs ? Squad isn’t a mess .. there are 3 or 4 underachieveing players that cost too much money. Selling Vydra to get some money doesn’t solve that, it only finances their retention. .... the loan way is a much longer term intelligent plan and buys time at no significant cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, jono said: Squad isn’t a mess .. there are 3 or 4 underachieveing players that cost too much money. Selling Vydra to get some money doesn’t solve that, it only finances their retention. .... the loan way is a much longer term intelligent plan and buys time at no significant cost. The squad’s a mess because it’s fragmented between different managers and style of play. We have McClaren and Clough’s footballers, Clement’s scattergun signings and Pearson and Rowett’s counter-attackers. Now we have Lampard who wants to play something more akin to the Clough and McClaren side. This is why people don’t see Vydra fitting amongst others. That’s just looking at style of play as wel before we look at formations which may we see us overloaded in certain positions now. We could potentially have four strikers for one position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, cannable said: The squad’s a mess because it’s fragmented between different managers and style of play. We have McClaren and Clough’s footballers, Clement’s scattergun signings and Pearson and Rowett’s counter-attackers. Now we have Lampard who wants to play something more akin to the Clough and McClaren side. This is why people don’t see Vydra fitting amongst others. That’s just looking at style of play as wel before we look at formations which may we see us overloaded in certain positions now. We could potentially have four strikers for one position. For sure, but the point is we don’t need to add further to that confusion. I like what I am seeing in that we haven’t gone on another scatter gun buying spree. The oldsters will wither away and either contracts end or we get a value boost with them playing with younger loaners and academy inputs ... with no real cost / value impact except possibly in a positive sense 6/12 months down the line. Unless he is played as a lone striker Vydra has the ability to contribute reasonably in any system, if we lose out a little on a peak value then so what ? It’s a minor loss compared to more over priced impulse buying of the young “name of the moment” keep your powder dry ..let’s see how it unfolds and then have a look in January. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 52 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: You’re deluding yourselves if you think the two loanees are going to sign with us while were still stuck in the Championship, which is a foregone conclusion for the next 2 years because our squad is crap Squad, that even with a crap manager made the playoffs, and beat Fulham in one of the legs. Our squad is not crap. Our centre back pairing is the best in the league. We have a great keeper. We have 3 players available to fill the CDM role, with Huddlestone and Ledley having bags of experience and being perfect for that role. We need another striker probably, we're adding depth into the wings. How can you be so negative about the squad, when it's probably better than the majority of this league has at their disposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 56 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I’m glad we’ve signed the duo on loan. They’re a hell of a lot better than say Butterfield and Weimann. But they’re not going to push us towards a promotion challenge, they’re not world beaters. You must seriously rate Rowett then as this woeful squad managed a pretty decent promotion challenge last season. Of people who played a part last season, we've lost Baird and Russell, but we've gained Martin, Bryson and Butterfield back, got two very promising kids in on loan, plus 2-3 of our boys looking like they are ready for the step up. I think our squad is already a lot better than last year and we finished 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Andicis said: Squad, that even with a crap manager made the playoffs, and beat Fulham in one of the legs. Our squad is not crap. Our centre back pairing is the best in the league. We have a great keeper. We have 3 players available to fill the CDM role, with Huddlestone and Ledley having bags of experience and being perfect for that role. We need another striker probably, we're adding depth into the wings. How can you be so negative about the squad, when it's probably better than the majority of this league has at their disposal? Do you honestly believe that? Rowett has always overachieved with what he has at his disposal. That’s exactly why Stoke wanted him, because he did a superb job at Brum and Derby with the team at his disposal. Rowett’s football was horrible to watch, but it got the best out of several players. Let’s not pretend that Vydra is a better player in another system, he isn’t. Likewise the horrible defensive non-possession football we played under Rowett didn’t expose the likes of Hudds, Ledley or Bradders for the oil tankers that they are. Football isn’t played on paper, I’m sure you know that you seem like a knowledgeable guy. It’s easy to look at individuals, but we need to mould them into a functioning team. Will Curtis Davies or Keogh be as solid in an attack-minded team when they’re likely to be exposed more to one vs one situations. Which of our current wide players look capable of taking the ball in, moving it on and intelligently run into space off the balll? If we’re going to play an entertaining style which looks to build attacks from the back, then we need half a dozen new players at the very least. And as for the strikers. Jerome looked useful charging down long punts and pressuring the defenders. He looks like bambi on ice when tasking him with pass and move, instigating attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Bottom line, a strong squad has just been made stronger! I am really looking forward to this season!! I feel sorry for the miserable fans who cant feel inspired by what has happened in the last two months! Buckle up and enjoy the ride!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said: And as for the strikers. Jerome looked useful charging down long punts and pressuring the defenders. He looks like bambi on ice when tasking him with pass and move, instigating attacks. Isn't all the signs out there suggesting to you we want another striker? Why not wait and see if we get another centre forward, before using Jerome as the example. 2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Let’s not pretend that Vydra is a better player in another system, he isn’t. Likewise the horrible defensive non-possession football we played under Rowett didn’t expose the likes of Hudds, Ledley or Bradders for the oil tankers that they are. Vydra won't work in another system, I agree. However, Huddlestone, Ledley and Johnson were exposed all year, because we had no midfield runner, we were overrun in midfield almost every single game without fail. I'd argue they'll be less exposed next year, like Eustace wasn't exposed under McClaren's system, because they will have more players around them. 3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Will Curtis Davies or Keogh be as solid in an attack-minded team when they’re likely to be exposed more to one vs one situations. They won't suddenly drop the fundamentals of defending. They had enough one on ones last year to assume they'll handle the change fine. They're experienced guys, not young players. They can adapt. 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: If we’re going to play an entertaining style which looks to build attacks from the back, then we need half a dozen new players at the very least. Completely disagree, Keogh and Davies are fine for ball playing centre halves, Wisdom and Forsyth both were successful in McClaren's side doing just that, Ledley and Huddlestone are solid enough with it, Mount and Bryson are made for that formation. Alongside a fair amount of wing talent. I don't see how you can say that, when many of our players have done it before, or are more than capable of doing it. 5 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Football isn’t played on paper, I’m sure you know that you seem like a knowledgeable guy. It’s easy to look at individuals, but we need to mould them into a functioning team. Exactly. Football isn't played on paper, but you rule out our team every single year ON PAPER without seeing any football to justify your opinion. So maybe you're an issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Andicis said: They won't suddenly drop the fundamentals of defending. They had enough one on ones last year to assume they'll handle the change fine. They're experienced guys, not young players. They can adapt. Alex Pearce’s performance levels capitulating once Mac 2 decided to play football again is a prime example of how even title winning captains (at this level) can be terrible when they’re exposed more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 12/07/2018 at 14:31, Premier ram said: welcome to Derby Frank , god help you if you dont beat Reading 6-0 in your first game , unbelievable this lot will want to sack him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said: this lot will want to sack him I haven’t seen anybody call him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Do you honestly believe that? Rowett has always overachieved with what he has at his disposal. That’s exactly why Stoke wanted him, because he did a superb job at Brum and Derby with the team at his disposal. Rowett’s football was horrible to watch, but it got the best out of several players. Let’s not pretend that Vydra is a better player in another system, he isn’t. Likewise the horrible defensive non-possession football we played under Rowett didn’t expose the likes of Hudds, Ledley or Bradders for the oil tankers that they are. Football isn’t played on paper, I’m sure you know that you seem like a knowledgeable guy. It’s easy to look at individuals, but we need to mould them into a functioning team. Will Curtis Davies or Keogh be as solid in an attack-minded team when they’re likely to be exposed more to one vs one situations. Which of our current wide players look capable of taking the ball in, moving it on and intelligently run into space off the balll? If we’re going to play an entertaining style which looks to build attacks from the back, then we need half a dozen new players at the very least. And as for the strikers. Jerome looked useful charging down long punts and pressuring the defenders. He looks like bambi on ice when tasking him with pass and move, instigating attacks. It'll be interesting to see what the squad looks like by the 3rd of August but its already improved on last season with Weimann, Baird, Shackell and Bent leaving and Wilson and Mount arriving. The only first teamer lost is replaced by someone who scored 7 in 11(?) for a dodgy Hull side. He can only do so much in one window. Hughes, Russell, Ward, Bucko and Dawkins are missing from the squad that finished 4th and lost to QPR playing some of the best football we've seen as Derby fans. Can Mount do the job of Hughes? Are Lawrence, Wilson, Thomas worse than Russell, Dawkins and Ward? The only tangible loss from those is Buckos ability to ping a diagonal which I don't think Davies has in his locker. Carson/Grant Wisdom/Wisdom Keogh/Keogh Davies/Bucko Forsyth/Forsyth Thorne&Huddlestone/Eustace&Thorne Bryson&Butterfield/Bryson&Hendrink Mount/Hughes Wilson/Russell Martin/Martin Lawrence/Ward It could be likely that Martin isn't flavour of the month and I may have missed out players but realistically what is missing from the 'left' side of each position to have us playing as well as when we had the players on the 'right' side? Carson/Roos Wisdom/Bogle Keogh/Hanson Davies/Pearce Forsyth/Lowe Huddlestone/Thorne Bryson/Elsnik Mount/ Butterfield Lawrence/Thomas Martin/Jerome Wilson/Bennett (Brentford Winger if he signs takes us up to a squad of 21 outfield players and 3 keepers) Areas I'd improve: Striker if Martin isn't to be used, would maybe keep Jerome as a 'plan B' in the last 10 minutes. CM If Butterfield is deemed not to have a future here Happy to get rid of Johnson, Ledley, Nugent, Anya, Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Why are people comparing our loan signings to that of Fulham, Wolves and Watford? Take out the loan signings and those 3 still had miles better squads than what we have. I’d much rather sell Vydra and start the rebuild with permanent signings ie. signing young players who will be here under Lampard for the next four years. You’re deluding yourselves if you think the two loanees are going to sign with us while were still stuck in the Championship, which is a foregone conclusion for the next 2 years because our squad is crap. I’m glad we’ve signed the duo on loan. They’re a hell of a lot better than say Butterfield and Weimann. But they’re not going to push us towards a promotion challenge, they’re not world beaters. The squad is still a horrible mess and we can’t rectify that until summer. But at the very least I was hopeful of putting a few building blocks in place this summer, but a failure to sell Vydra has prevented that. So we have signed two players and got two more Martin and Bryson back from loan. Sold Weimann released bent shackell and Baird. We also have bogle and Thomas breaking through. Hard to see how that doesn’t strengthen the squad overall , compared to a squad that finished in the play offs last year. So how that does that mean we have a crap squad. of course the squad is too big and includes some dross like Blackman and anya . So I expect some more outgoings and who knows we may yet have more incomings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said: Bottom line, a strong squad has just been made stronger! I am really looking forward to this season!! I feel sorry for the miserable fans who cant feel inspired by what has happened in the last two months! Buckle up and enjoy the ride!! That's my view. In comparison to other clubs in the division we have a pretty good foundation here. It's far from perfect, but there's not many squads in this division I'd swap with ours. We're at least well positioned to compete at the right end of the table - again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ambitious said: That's my view. In comparison to other clubs in the division we have a pretty good foundation here. It's far from perfect, but there's not many squads in this division I'd swap with ours. We're at least well positioned to compete at the right end of the table - again. I'd easily swap our squad for Swansea, West Brom, Stoke, Forest, Boro, Sheff Wed, Norwich and Brentford. While some be lacking individually, they each have a team more suited to their manager's style of play and they'll strengthen further as the window goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said: I'd easily swap our squad for Swansea, West Brom, Stoke, Forest, Boro, Sheff Wed, Norwich and Brentford. Go home, you're drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.